Ollie Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hi guys, Would love some input here... I put down a coopers sparkling 21 days ago and for the first time I used a re-cultured yeast instead of the supplied packet. It has been at a constant of 18 degrees for the entire time in the FV. The original gravity was 1061 and over the last three days it seems to have either stopped or stalled? It is now at 1022 which I would have thought was a little high as I was expecting it to finish around 1016ish... In the experience of the wiser has this happened before to anyone else?? My re-culture was all good, smelt great and went off with a bang when I pitched it, made 6 bottles of coopers pale into a 1L starter... The beer that I have sampled from the tester tube smells fine but has a little bit of residual sweetness, something I was expecting to loose with the fresh yeast VS the packet. Thus I a thinking it might not have finished fermenting. Anyway enough rambling [roll] hoope someone can give me some wise ideas about what to do next!!! Cheers, Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardC2 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 let it sit in primary longer. I've had brews get down to 1.018,or 1.016. But that was my first FG test at 2 weeks. I've had to let them sit another week to get down to a stable FG. Then another 3-5 days to clean up any by-products. When it cleared to a slight haze,(after FG),they got bottled. Let sit in cardboard boxes with the flaps closed for 3-4 weeks @ room temp. Then chill in the fridge till chill haze settles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Looking at my notes, my Sparkling Ales have all gotten down to between 1012 & 1015. If you have made the standard Sparkling Ale recipe with the kit you will certainly get a residual sweetness - some batches more than others. My last batch of Sparkling (1yr ago this month) had put me off making another as it just doesn't taste great (too sweet [pinched] ) but I am going to get back on the horse and make another to an alternate recipe later this week once my yeast is ready to go. I've still got most of my last batch sitting around taking up the space of better beer - not sure whether to tip it or to just let it sit....but I believe I'm going off on a rant [biggrin] Ollie, at 21 days it sounds like your yeast has gone to sleep or given up the ghost. What temp has it been sitting at. I've had recultured yeast poop out on me before - goes ballistic at the start but doesn't get the job done. I had to repitch on those occassions which is something I really, really like to avoid. If your temps are a bit low maybe you need to gently rouse the yeast and get your temps up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hi guys, It has been at a constant of 18 degrees for the entire time in the FV. Cheers, Ollie Bumping up the temps at this point may help them finish, if they have dropped out you may need to (sanitise) give them a stir to get them back in suspension, if oyu can slowly raise the tems to 20'c for 4 days or so and check again, if they have stalled, the stir and higher temps will help them finish it off.. good luck.. (PS I wouldnt bottle in glass at that reading... PET is your friend here if you cannot get it lower) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Ooops...missed where you mentioned the temp [innocent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 So the general consensus is to rasie the temps to 20ish and give it a stir with a sanitised mixing spoon?? Or is it one or the other?? Sorry I have not had my coffee yet so amnot fully functioning [crying] Muddy - As for the sweetness that you describe, do you think a dry hop addition of some POR would be worth a go?? I know that it will pretty much only be adding aroma but do you think it will help? Cheers for the input guys! It is always appreciated! [love] Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Both - Gentle stir and raised temp. I've never used POR - Partly because it doesn't really appeal to me and partly because it is generally not recommended as an aroma hop (but people who have actually used it may have more useful info on it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Cheers Muddy! Thanks for clearing that up for me! I will be sure to fire up the heater as soon as I get home then! Yeah not too sure about the sweetness issue. I am really disappointed at this stage (even without it being in the keg yet) because being the first re-cultured yeast I have used I was expecting it to loose that sweetness that some of my previous brews have had. Itis not as sweet but still noticeable... Perhaps I'll squirt some lemon juice in there [crying] !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I've often read that people found the Sparkling Ale kit comes out too sweet in comparison to the commercial product but I used to disagree somewhat - until my last batch, which I didn't enjoy. This time I'll be dropping the liquid malt and just doing the kit with 1kg of LDM and 500g dex to 21L. Fingers crossed [wink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Hi guys, The original gravity was 1061 and over the last three days it seems to have either stopped or stalled? My re-culture was all good, smelt great and went off with a bang when I pitched it, made 6 bottles of coopers pale into a 1L starter... Cheers, Ollie Its is also possible that yuo have underpitched which will make them struggle a bit to finish, from what I have read and understand it's best to step up your starter to 2lt's, say a start at 250ml then 500ml then 1lt then 2lt to get to the right amount of yeast (rule of thumb) if you dont know about this CALCULATORit can help with working out how much you need. I know these calculators get poo poo'd a bit here but I have found it a useful tool to get to ballpark figures. It's pretty simple to use too!! Based on a 50% Viability rate and a 23lt wort with an OG of 1061 oyu will need about 200ml of yeast for that batch. (70% Viability reduced that to 150ml)Do you know how much you ended up pitching? Did you pitch the whole litre in or drop the yeast to slurry and pitch? Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasond4 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have been fermenting using the Coopers yeast from the mild ale in a simple brew using just a can of APA & BE2, didnt want to waist much if it all went wrong.This is the first time I have done this. The brew has been on the go for 11 days now all done without temp control. The last week in Perth has been cold 2-17c night/day temps and the brew has performed amazingly. I checked the brew after 6 days 1020,a little sweeter than I would like. Then I checked every second day and then an hour ago and it has come down to 1011 and it is holding steady after 2 days and the sweetness has gone to a more palatable taste. I must say the yeast clears very quickly. Will keg soon and leave a post on how it went[biggrin] . I plan to use this yeast again for a bigger beer. I hope it will cope[unsure] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I know these calculators get poo poo'd a bit here but I have found it a useful tool to get to ballpark figures. It's pretty simple to use too!! Do you know how much you ended up pitching? Did you pitch the whole litre in or drop the yeast to slurry and pitch? Yob Hey Yob, Thanks for the info in your post, really good for future reference! In regards specifically to your above comments, the calculator is great, no ideas why people would not like that?? I reckon it is a neat tool! As for the quantities etc I pitched the entire litre, it was probably a fraction more like 1.15ishL's and no it was not the slurry it was all of the solution... Do you reckon I could make another re-culture and pitch it on top of the wort now or would that risk yeast bite? Also do you think I can wash this yeast and re-use if I step it up once washed? Or is it going ot be no good to be used in another batch as this one did not fire on all cylinders? Cheers, Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Also do you think I can wash this yeast and re-use if I step it up once washed? Or is it going ot be no good to be used in another batch as this one did not fire on all cylinders? Cheers, Ollie I would think that if it hadnt preformed as good as you wanted they may not be the best to re-use. If it was underpitched, those yeasties would be pretty stressed and it's probably time to let them go, I'd make a new starter for your next one in advance, then you can wash the yeast and you will know how much you have, there is a VERY informative thread HEREon yeast wasing which may be of use to you To use an analogy, if I had cooked a piece of fish in the frying pan with some oil I had laying about but didnt know if it was good or not and the fish tasted crap, I wouldnt put a second piece of fish in that oil, I would clean the pan and add some new oil and then cook the fish,[bandit] It must be said that when I first tried to step up some Coops yeast I'm alnmost certain I underpitched by a goodly way and the brew was ferkin 'orrible, I think it was my third brew or something and I was probably being a little too adventurous for where my knowlege level was at the time. Following that I played with stepping up yeast for ages but always panicked when it was time to pitch and ended up throwing alot of yeast in the sink (repeatedly) and using Spec yeast (there are always a few packeys of spec yeast in my fridge) however I am now washing and repitching yeast like a [devil] Yob [edit] With regard to the calculator link above, unless you are wasing your yeast, you will be guessing a little bit with regard to viability and this can also cause trouble, if I have washed my yast (as per link above) then I have a more accurate 'guess' at my viability will be, I know that if I have a clean white slurry with dead cells and rubbish removed my viability is 95-100%.. which is why I always drop out and wash yeast these days. Hope this helps a bit mate. did you manage to make it start moving again? I wouldnt be pitching more yeast, your best bet is to get them moving again (temps and stir) and then leave it for another week once you are sure FG is achieved so they can clean up after themselvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hey Yob, Great response and answered allmy queries, thanks very much. I will be going straight ti the bottlo on my way home to get another 6 pack to try again! Not sure if I got it going again yet... Warmed up the room last night and left early for work this morning so fingers crossed when I get home she will have started again, if not I will give her a stir! The thread you linked for yeast washing is a good one I will be sure to follow it when I get aroun to trying this after my next brew... Cheers mate. [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Yes Wolfy's washing yeast thread is a good one and he is very knowledgible when it comes to yeast. However, the brew I have in at the moment all I did was: 1/ Keg (or bottle) the previous batch 2/ add 100-200ml of cool boiled water to the trub 3/ swirl the FV to get everything mixed up and back in suspension 4/ sanitize a jar and pour off around 150-200ml of the trub (through the tap) into the jar 5/ Rince FV out in hot water and clean the tap 6/ spray everything with Starsan 7/ add next brew to FV and pitch what is in the jar. I'll be doing another keg tonight and will be doing this again for the third generation. All good so far and have never had any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I will be going straight ti the bottlo on my way home to get another 6 pack to try again! make sure they are longnecks[lol] as Bill point out, there are quicker ways to go about the same result but IMO going through and learning a somewhat... er.. OCD approach to good yeast handeling and management practices will never be a bad thing.. if you have the time to do it.. but be warned.. breeding/washing/slanting (Yeast in general)etc.. can be VERY ADDICTIVE [lol] also the brewing network has some very good listens on yeast n stuff.. havnt got time to find the links.. my racking FV is ready to be sanitised... in fact I have 250ml of 2nd washed yeast ready to pitch and I have a warm fuzzy feeling.. If I could work out how to post piccies here I would take a photo for ya[love] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I think you've jinxed me Ollie. I've been preparing a reculture from 3 longies this week (which I've done countless times before) - All looked good and it fired up pretty quick and looked and tasted fine. I pitched it in a Sparkling Ale just over 30hrs ago and absolutely nothing is happening - I've had dry yeasts take a good 48hrs to get going in the past but usually my recultured yeast is firing on all cylinders after 12hrs or less. I'm not overly worried yet but it is a little out of the ordinary so if nothing is happening by the morning I might develop a frown for the weekend. BTW Yob - I use the Image Shack website to post pics here [cool] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 make sure they are longnecks Yob, How come you say to use long necks?? Is there a difference? does the longneck bottle have more yeast in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hey Muddy maybe it's not us?? Maybe Coopers have decided to play some mind games this month and release a few batches that are not suitable for yeast cultivation to keep all us home brewers on our toes [pinched] Good luck with your brew... Hope your glad wrap starts doing it's thing cause we all know you ain't got an air lock on your FV! [biggrin] Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 make sure they are longnecks Yob, How come you say to use long necks?? Is there a difference? does the longneck bottle have more yeast in it? I'm guessing it is because the bottles are great [cool] ...but you're a kegger so you probably don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 So I have given it a gentle stir and risen the temp as you suggested guys and I have not seen any action?? I did this all 24 hours ago, would I be right to assume that she is now dead in the water. Excuse the pun [bandit] Do you suggest I just keg it or should I give it an extra few days to settle? Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 what is the gravity now? I assume you have taken a fresh reading? How does it taste? what are the temps at now? I would still be leaving it a few days to check that the gravity isnt slowly dropping, but then again if it's not too sweet then bung it in the keg and brew more!! @ 1022 though I suspect it will still be a little sweet, you could maybe dry hop the crap out of it to try to ballence the sweetness? Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Now I am not a man of god but last night I said a little prayer for my beer to turn out alright... And low and behold my prayers were answered! Just thought I would do a gravity reading and it has dropped to 1016 overnight!!!!! Needless to say Yob I am stoked!! The sweetness seems to have dissipated as well! Would you still recommend I do not use this yeast again or could I wash it and step her up a bit? Thanks for all your input everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The only things that I am aware of for tell tale signs to not use yeast again are: Crap taste Crap smell If it passes the smell AND taste test then I see no reason why it can't be used again in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 My latest reculture is really giving me the shits [pinched] I recultured the remains of 3 pale ale longies (All young and chilled upright for more than a week). All looked good and it started up as per usual - plenty of activity. The only difference is that this is the first time I used a stir plate. Anyway, I pitched it into a Sparkling Ale and I'm now at 3 days in the fermentor and nothing is happening. Gravity hasn't dropped at all grrrr....grrrrrrrrrrrr [pinched] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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