shitsngiggles Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi all, would appreciate some suggestions for my next brewing adventure, I want to do a Honey Wheat using the following. 1.7kg TC Wheat kit 1kg LDM 500g Clover Honey (or other that will through sweet fruity flavour) I know SFA about yeasts (& temps) and hops, so would love some suggestions of what might work, I like beers that are Sweet, Dry & Crisp Also does anybody know if there is a book or guide available anywhere that can help the uneducated dumb-ass like me with understanding affects of different yeasts/types temps and same for hops???? I've managed to get a great deal of awesome helpful info from the forum to understand combinations and affects/flavour throws are huge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Can you get your hands on wheat malt extract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not sure King Ruddy, will be in my LHBS tomorrow, am guessing probably yes, he has a fair range of stock. How much would you recommend if I can get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tembusu Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Got this one in my to-do list 1.7kg TC Wheat Beer 1.5kg TC Wheat Malt Extract 0.5kg Manuka Honey Safbrew Fermentis Pitching at 24 deg C Brewing at 22 deg C 20 litres Waiting for cooler weather so that I can ferment in my study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Can you get your hands on wheat malt extract? Ok unfortunately my LHBS didn't have the Coopers Wheat Malt Extract (but is now looking at ordering some since I asked for it) but managed to get 1.5kg tin of Morgans (liquid). Dude at HBS had not heard of anyone adding extra Wheat Malt Extract to a Wheat Kit ... he suggested if trying it go 1kg of Honey and 750g of WME. I see tembusu your recipe is reverse - more WME less Honey, is that a tried and tested recipe? Also picked up some Goldings Hops to go with, haven't decided if I should steep or dry hop Any thoughts .... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tembusu Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 My recipe is a marriage between "Beekeeper' and Darth Weisser" substituting 1kg light dry malt with liquid malt extract but without the grains. Should fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 My recipe is a marriage between "Beekeeper' and Darth Weisser" substituting 1kg light dry malt with liquid malt extract but without the grains.Should fly. Hmmm I like the idea, I think i'll put down a comparison brew on the to-do-list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi again shitsngiggles. I know there is a long tradition of adding honey to beer but I have not brewed with honey myself because 1.) honey is very expensive where I live, and 2.) I hear it ferments out completely anyway and doesn't add sweetness, only floral elements (depending on the type of honey). If I want honey-like sweetness I use Honey Malt. If I want floral, I go for a floral hop. A good book for beginners is John Palmer's "How to Brew" http://www.howtobrew.com/ As for yeasts and temps, try the White Labs and Wyeast websites. They have lots of info, especially on the White Labs site. But they do not cover dry yeasts, which is what most beginners use. Palmer touches on them, but his list is out-of-date. As for hops, there is Stan Hieronymus's book: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Hops-Practical-Bitterness-Elements/dp/1938469011/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453494631&sr=1-1&keywords=hops but I haven't read it myself, and I suspect it is overkill for a beginner. Maybe someone else can give you another suggestion. You like beers that are Sweet, Dry & Crisp? Sweet styles might include English [brown] Milds, the lower gravity Scottish Ales, Traditional Bock, Baltic Porter, Sweet Stout. There are a lot of crisp and dry styles: Blonde Ales, Cream Ales, Kolsch etc. Why don't you check out this link: http://www.splendidtable.org/story/the-7-flavor-categories-of-beer-what-they-are-how-to-pair-them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wow, some great info in there Christina - Thanks heaps Well I got the brew down as follows (also mentioned on another thread): 1.7kg TC Wheat kit 750g of Morgans Wheat Malt Extract (half tin-ish of liquid stuff) 1.4kg of Mixed Blossom Honey OG 1.049 Brew Cellar Wheat Yeast - pitched dry around 18-20 deg FV into controlled fridge at 18 deg Have got 12g of Golding Hops to go in once it reaches FG, probably dry but may do a tea 2 days on the Krausen is building nicely, really looking forward to how it comes out, hoping to have a reasonably high ABV with a crisp light body, the big qty of honey should give a good flavour kick and dry it some ???? hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Has anybody got a spread sheet or can direct me to one or a calculator that can give me gravities - OG & FG and ABV for this brew? OG was 1.049 - Brew held at constant 18 deg SG on day 5 was 1.033 - tasted like the malts had fermented but not the honey - added a Hop tea of 12g of Goldings - Steeped in 1 cup boiling water allowed to cool for 1hr then added to FV. SG today, day 7 is 1.026 - still going obviously but I have no idea where FG should be ... I have read some Honey Wheat brews take longer to ferment. No big deal if I can't find out what FG should be as I always work on consistent SG for 3 days before CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Don't know if you saw my video, but the samples are showing promise and the honey-ness seems about right 60:40 seems to be a good ratio of wheat to (in this case) pilsner malt too. Perhaps next time I'll try 2:1 wheat:munich to get ... whatever that turns out to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Don't know if you saw my video' date=' but the samples are showing promise and the honey-ness seems about right [img']smile[/img] 60:40 seems to be a good ratio of wheat to (in this case) pilsner malt too. Perhaps next time I'll try 2:1 wheat:munich to get ... whatever that turns out to be! Hi Sir Ruddy, Great vid! not boring like a few that I've seen lately ... good job. Am very interested to hear how your brew turns out. Mine is still in the FV, I'm at day 11 now and still fermenting SG today is 1.020 @ 18 deg, it has slowed over the last 2 days, the samples still taste like the honey has not fermented fully yet, the honey sweetness is starting to reduce but obviously still going. As the honey has been the last to ferment it is really hard to try and pick what the end taste will be like and how strong/weak the honey will present. Have been wondering if I should bump the temp up a little .... kinda think patience will be better though, I would prefer a clean ferment with minimal esters. Spoke to the dude at my LHBS this am, he reckons from his experience Honey Wheats are always a slow ferment so I should just sit tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Well I think I must have hit FG at 1.020, has been there for 4 days now so I set the fridge for CC last night .... is 1.020 too high for bottling? ... I really don't want to create any bombs. The honey is very strong, probably a little too strong but is still drinkable, I am going to put some strips of Hungarian Hot Wax chilli in a few bottles, I think the chilli flavour might come out quite nice matched to the strong honey I plan to prepare the chilli strips then microwave them for 30 secs to kill any nasties then just slip them in the bottles with just one carb drop per 740ml PET Also thought about dropping a few coffee beans in a bottle to see what I get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Alright, sorry this has taken so long ... 1.7kg TC Wheat kit750g of Morgans Wheat Malt Extract (half tin-ish of liquid stuff) 1.4kg of Mixed Blossom Honey OG 1.049 Brew Cellar Wheat Yeast - pitched dry around 18-20 deg I don't know much about that particular yeast unfortunately' date=' but based on all that you ought to expect a FG around 1.008. Your current reading would therefore seem high - are you de-gassing the sample? 1.4kg is a [i']lot[/i] of honey though, so I'm not surprised that there's a very strong honey flavour going on! I thought I was being heavy-handed using 750g in a 27L batch and you've used over twice that amount per litre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Well I think I must have hit FG at 1.020' date=' has been there for 4 days now so I set the fridge for CC last night .... is 1.020 too high for bottling? ... I really don't want to create any bombs. The honey is very strong, probably a little too strong but is still drinkable, I am going to put some strips of Hungarian Hot Wax chilli in a few bottles, I think the chilli flavour might come out quite nice matched to the strong honey [img']devil[/img] I plan to prepare the chilli strips then microwave them for 30 secs to kill any nasties then just slip them in the bottles with just one carb drop per 740ml PET Also thought about dropping a few coffee beans in a bottle to see what I get Hi shitsngiggles. My spreadsheet does not list Brewcellar yeasts as options. If its attenuation is like Fermentis WB-06 your FG should be 1.005, and if it is like Danstar Munich then 1.008. It seems that your fermentation is stuck, especially as you say it still tastes sweet. I would NOT bottle. Honey is hard for yeast to ferment because it is nutrient poor and very acidic, which is why meads take a long time to ferment. Did you by chance notice a sulphur smell when it was fermenting? That is a sign of yeast stress. I think it would be a good idea for you to add some more rehydrated yeast, or make a little starter (don't dry pitch). Given how much honey you used, add some yeast energizer too (not just DAP, but one that also contains vitamins and trace minerals), and wait longer. What temp are you using? Could you raise it a couple of degrees? Good luck. -Christina. PS Suggest you join Aussie Homebrewer and get yourself a copy of Ian's Spreadsheet there, or use the Brewer's Friend Recipe Calculator, which seems less accurate (says your FG could be 1.013 with Danstar Munich). http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hmm, glad I rehydrated the yeast for mine then! I think I'll give it an extra week too why not. It sure did stink when it got going!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Mead makers add yeast energizers in three or so stages during fermentation: at pitching, 1/3 of the way to FG, and 2/3 of the way. With beer there is more nutrition available from the barley malt, so supplementation may not be necessary, depending on the percentage of honey (10% of the recipe is a reasonable amount - BTW shitsngiggles, your recipe was 36.4% honey), but I would say that if you are noticing sulphur smell, it would not be a bad idea to add half teaspoon of yeast energizer. It may take a while for the sulphur to age out. If you keg, you might be able to purge it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It only lasted a few days and it's well gone now. When I checked the gravity a few days ago it was down to about 1.008 as well so I don't think I have too much to worry about, just being cautious. Munich is a very vigorous fermenter too ... not sure if it's known for being smelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thanks Christina and King Ruddy. I did wonder about it being stuck, I have another pack of Wheat yeast which I'll rehydrate now and pitch, the FV has been held at a constant 18 deg, I'll also bump the controller up to 21 and see if that helps. Never detected any sulphur smells at any stage, the Krausen was slow to start and is still present as a very thick crusty/creamy bread like layer on top. The sweetness taste in the samples has subsided considerably but still has the very strong honey flavour, I knew I was using a big heapin' of honey when I put it down and was aiming for stronger than most honey kick ... just came stronger than I expected .... but hey may not be finished yet aye I don't have any yeast energiser at hand ... is there anything else I could use .... I do have some other yeast sachets, would killing one and using as nutrient help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Thanks Christina and King Ruddy. I did wonder about it being stuck, I have another pack of Wheat yeast which I'll rehydrate now and pitch, the FV has been held at a constant 18 deg, I'll also bump the controller up to 21 and see if that helps. Never detected any sulphur smells at any stage, the Krausen was slow to start and is still present as a very thick crusty/creamy bread like layer on top. The sweetness taste in the samples has subsided considerably but still has the very strong honey flavour, I knew I was using a big heapin' of honey when I put it down and was aiming for stronger than most honey kick ... just came stronger than I expected .... but hey may not be finished yet aye I don't have any yeast energiser at hand ... is there anything else I could use .... I do have some other yeast sachets, would killing one and using as nutrient help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 sorry - double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Ok ... so I stopped the CC at 11 deg, ramped the controller back to 21 (which kicked the heater belt on), rehydrated another wheat yeast and pitched it giving the brew a gentle stir. While pitching the rehydrated yeast I noticed a mild sulphur smell ... I had not noticed it earlier and only did when I took the lid off the FV ... wasn't present in the fridge just the normal beautiful aroma of CO2 and yeasty bread/banana brew smells , sulphur smell was just in the FV ... I'm guessing the yeast had only just become stressed to produce the smell in the FV only ????? Anyhows 6hrs later and it seems I have activity again, the krausen has reformed from where it was stirred and I just took a sample and SG is at 1.016 I thinkin all should be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well finally bottling tomorrow .... at long bloody last! What an experience this brew has been ... thanks for all the helpful advice oh knowledge forum member brew guru's, this brew has certainly been a steep learning experience. Ended up with an FG of 1.006 so did a rapid cold crash .... with all the mucking about, stalling twice and additions of hop tea, extra yeast, stiring, dead yeast for nutrients, raisins and energiser am really hoping I haven't introduced any infection, I was as careful as I could be with sterilisation. The last sample tasted good, it has lost the sweetness altogether, still has a strong Honey flavour although it has reduced a fair bit from what it was during ferment, am thinking the Chilli tests should taste pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitsngiggles Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Tore the scab off a few of these Honey Wheats tonight, must say although still very young it is bloody nice It has ended up with quite high ABV ... as desired, can certainly feel a tallie Flavours are quite good, honey/wheat combo has finished up a little tart, distinct honey flavour, good mouth feel and smooth, quaffable yet strong at the same time. I tried a couple of the trial chilli bottles as well: - Habanero Chilli, small sliver in 330ml bottle - won't do that again in a hurry was a bit too over powering, not bad just too strong, and I am a huge ultra hot chilli fan, just the flavours didn't go well together ... would make a great party trick beer though as it was damn hot! - Hungarian Hot Wax, large sliver in 330ml bottle - much more palatable than the habanero, good chilli taste and not excessively hot, but still not a big fan ... think I'll give up the chilli trials for a while. - Coffee, 5 whole roasted beans in a 330ml bottle - Interesting finish hard to describe, distinct coffee aroma, coffee flavour presented well, not too strong, definitely added to the bitterness, might try doing this again with addition of a very small amount of sweetener (non sugar) ... not bad at all Will give another update in a week or two once conditioned a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Tore the scab off a few of these Honey Wheats tonight' date=' must say although still very young it is bloody nice [img']love[/img] It has ended up with quite high ABV ... as desired, can certainly feel a tallie Flavours are quite good, honey/wheat combo has finished up a little tart, distinct honey flavour, good mouth feel and smooth, quaffable yet strong at the same time. I tried a couple of the trial chilli bottles as well: - Habanero Chilli, small sliver in 330ml bottle - won't do that again in a hurry was a bit too over powering, not bad just too strong, and I am a huge ultra hot chilli fan, just the flavours didn't go well together ... would make a great party trick beer though as it was damn hot! - Hungarian Hot Wax, large sliver in 330ml bottle - much more palatable than the habanero, good chilli taste and not excessively hot, but still not a big fan ... think I'll give up the chilli trials for a while. - Coffee, 5 whole roasted beans in a 330ml bottle - Interesting finish hard to describe, distinct coffee aroma, coffee flavour presented well, not too strong, definitely added to the bitterness, might try doing this again with addition of a very small amount of sweetener (non sugar) ... not bad at all Will give another update in a week or two once conditioned a little more. Some interesting experiments. Thanks for reporting on them. I have been reading about "White Stouts," made with coffee, so I was particularly interested in what you had to say about this. I might try adding a few coffee beans to some cider, the next time I bottle some. BTW, which sweetener are you going to use? I used xylitol (comes from birch trees) to back-sweeten some cider, and also in a "chocolate" stout that was less sweet than I wanted at bottling, and am waiting for them to carbonate to see how they worked out. I was very impressed with the taste of xylitol. It looks like sugar, is 100% as sweet as sugar, and tastes an awful lot like sugar, without the bitter after-taste of so many other sweeteners. The only downside is that it you eat a lot of it, it can cause diarrhea, but for back-sweetening purposes you would never get a high enough dose to cause diarrhea. Cheers! -Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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