Lallemand Wildbrew Philly Sour

[Tremond_moreland]

Hi gang, I made my first sour beer with the "Lallemand Wildbrew Philly Sour yeast" Razzmatazz Raspberry Sour (diybeer.com). After waiting over 3 weeks and checking  FG reading, something doesn't add up. The Hydrometer had a reading of 3010.  I didn't take a SG reading unfortunately.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks

[Aussiekraut]

4 minutes ago, Tremond_moreland said:

Hi gang, I made my first sour beer with the "Lallemand Wildbrew Philly Sour yeast" Razzmatazz Raspberry Sour (diybeer.com). After waiting over 3 weeks and checking  FG reading, something doesn't add up. The Hydrometer had a reading of 3010.  I didn't take a SG reading unfortunately.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks

3010? That can't be. If it reads 1.010 after three weeks, the beer is done. I've used Philly Sour a few times and it is usually done in a week. The recipe says FG should be around 1.012 and 1.017, so 1.010 would be well finished. Was there any activity at all during the ferment? Krausen buildup or condensation under the lid? Did you take more than just one reading?

[ChairmanDrew]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

3010? That can't be. If it reads 1.010 after three weeks, the beer is done. I've used Philly Sour a few times and it is usually done in a week. The recipe says FG should be around 1.012 and 1.017, so 1.010 would be well finished. Was there any activity at all during the ferment? Krausen buildup or condensation under the lid? Did you take more than just one reading?

I used it not so long ago. I found it to be a slow starter, but in the end it ferments out pretty clean.

A hydrometer reading like that can't be right, or else something has gone seriously wrong I'd  try just giving it a taste.

[Tremond_moreland]

1 hour ago, ChairmanDrew said:

I used it not so long ago. I found it to be a slow starter, but in the end it ferments out pretty clean.

A hydrometer reading like that can't be right, or else something has gone seriously wrong I'd  try just giving it a taste.

Oops, forgot to add the decimal place 3.010. I tasted when I took the reading, it tastes delish.  

[Tremond_moreland]

2 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

3010? That can't be. If it reads 1.010 after three weeks, the beer is done. I've used Philly Sour a few times and it is usually done in a week. The recipe says FG should be around 1.012 and 1.017, so 1.010 would be well finished. Was there any activity at all during the ferment? Krausen buildup or condensation under the lid? Did you take more than just one reading?

3.010 sorry forgot the decimal place. I will check when i get home, but pretty sure there was Krausen buildup and condensation under the lid. I did take a reading about 2 weeks after brewing, it was 4.25. I then added dextrose and a lager yeast. So then after another week or so, it came to the reading of 3.010

[Aussiekraut]

23 minutes ago, Tremond_moreland said:

3.010 sorry forgot the decimal place. I will check when i get home, but pretty sure there was Krausen buildup and condensation under the lid. I did take a reading about 2 weeks after brewing, it was 4.25. I then added dextrose and a lager yeast. So then after another week or so, it came to the reading of 3.010

Can you put up a photo of your hydrometer, please? One of the device itself and one of it in a test tube showing the reading? I am seriously having problems understanding what kind of hydrometer can read 3.xxx. Something is wrong here. As an example, I made a very big beer recently, with an OG of 1.111. That is something that becomes an 11% ABV beer. It finished at around 1.030, which is fairly high but it is a sweet and gutsy brew, so the FG is fine. But I can neither visualise a hydrometer that measures 3.xxx, nor a 30l fermenter holding enough sugar for such a reading. 

[Tremond_moreland]

5 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Can you put up a photo of your hydrometer, please? One of the device itself and one of it in a test tube showing the reading? I am seriously having problems understanding what kind of hydrometer can read 3.xxx. Something is wrong here. As an example, I made a very big beer recently, with an OG of 1.111. That is something that becomes an 11% ABV beer. It finished at around 1.030, which is fairly high but it is a sweet and gutsy brew, so the FG is fine. But I can neither visualise a hydrometer that measures 3.xxx, nor a 30l fermenter holding enough sugar for such a reading. 

Ahh. I made a huge mistake. I was misreading the hydrometer. The reading now is 1.026. Only been brewing for less than 6 months, and with every other beer reading  around the 1.010 range I was confused. Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Rookie error on my part. It still doesn't have a high percentage of alcohol, but I'm guessing thats due to sour raspberries. Will add dextrose to my next sour to boost the abv.

[Tremond_moreland]

Just one more question. I will be bottling this sour and have read that an additional yeast, such as LalBrew CBC-1 is required. Is this correct, and if so, do i place it in the fermenter right b4 bottling? Thanks again

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

14 minutes ago, Tremond_moreland said:

Ahh. I made a huge mistake. I was misreading the hydrometer. The reading now is 1.026. Only been brewing for less than 6 months, and with every other beer reading  around the 1.010 range I was confused. Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Rookie error on my part. It still doesn't have a high percentage of alcohol, but I'm guessing thats due to sour raspberries. Will add dextrose to my next sour to boost the abv.

On one of your earlier questions, the Original Gravity should have been around 1.056.  The sour cherries will also contain sugar, giving you a slightly higher effective OG.

I do not mean to sound critical, but I still think there is an issue with the reading of the hydrometer.  1.026 sounds quite high.  I would have predicted a Final Gravity around 1.017 (partly because the lactose does not ferment out).  And after 3 weeks with Philly Sour you should be finished, or very close to it.

To give you a comparison, I pitched Philly Sour into a brew 9 days ago (OG 1.042).  It did take about 3 days to get actively started.  Then it took off like a typical yeast.  It is now sitting at 1.014 and I think mine will still drop a point or two.

I wonder if your hydrometer is a Specific Gravity scale or a Brix scale.  For example, considering your earlier reported readings, 4.25 Brix = 1.017 SG and 3.01 Brix = 1.012 SG.  Those SG readings are more aligned with where I would think your brew would be at by now.

[Tremond_moreland]

1 hour ago, Tremond_moreland said:

Ahh. I made a huge mistake. I was misreading the hydrometer. The reading now is 1.026. Only been brewing for less than 6 months, and with every other beer reading  around the 1.010 range I was confused. Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Rookie error on my part. It still doesn't have a high percentage of alcohol, but I'm guessing thats due to sour raspberries. Will add dextrose to my next sour to boost the abv.

 

[Tremond_moreland]

32 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

On one of your earlier questions, the Original Gravity should have been around 1.056.  The sour cherries will also contain sugar, giving you a slightly higher effective OG.

I do not mean to sound critical, but I still think there is an issue with the reading of the hydrometer.  1.026 sounds quite high.  I would have predicted a Final Gravity around 1.017 (partly because the lactose does not ferment out).  And after 3 weeks with Philly Sour you should be finished, or very close to it.

To give you a comparison, I pitched Philly Sour into a brew 9 days ago (OG 1.042).  It did take about 3 days to get actively started.  Then it took off like a typical yeast.  It is now sitting at 1.014 and I think mine will still drop a point or two.

I wonder if your hydrometer is a Specific Gravity scale or a Brix scale.  For example, considering your earlier reported readings, 4.25 Brix = 1.017 SG and 3.01 Brix = 1.012 SG.  Those SG readings are more aligned with where I would think your brew would be at by now.

Thanks mate  This is a reading on an IPA I have on the go at the moment. This is a much closer reading to what I usually have. Mis-read the hydrometer on the sour, I should've put 1.026. Rookie mistake. We live and learn. Cheers heaps

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 minutes ago, Tremond_moreland said:

 

Definitely standard Specific Gravity scale.  Not that you really need confirmation, but that reading is around 1.026. 

It is still a fairly high gravity if it has stabilised.  What temperature did you ferment at?  I started mine around 19°C, but then thought that was a bit low.  So I upped it to 20.5°C.  Once the SG dropped below 1.020, I increased the temperature further to 22.5°C, where it is at now, to help the yeast finish off.

I forgot to address one of your other questions about carbonating in bottles.  I did it fine by just adding my usual sugar addition for priming.  The Philly Sour is still a yeast, so it will consume the added sugar and carbonate your bottles.  No need to add new yeast.

With that higher than usual FG (assuming it is at FG), I would halve my priming rate and only put the brew into PET bottles.  Much less risk of bottle bombs than with glass bottles.  All the same, store the bottles in a tub should you have any bottle failures.

[Shamus O'Sean]

12 minutes ago, Tremond_moreland said:

Thanks mate  This is a reading on an IPA I have on the go at the moment. This is a much closer reading to what I usually have. Mis-read the hydrometer on the sour, I should've put 1.026. Rookie mistake. We live and learn. Cheers heaps

That one does look typical for an IPA.  Around 1.014.  Looks nice and hazy.

[Tremond_moreland]

1 minute ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

That one does look typical for an IPA.  Around 1.014.  Looks nice and hazy.

Ahh cheers man. It has a delish fruity taste too. So looking forward to drinking a coldie soon

4 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Definitely standard Specific Gravity scale.  Not that you really need confirmation, but that reading is around 1.026. 

It is still a fairly high gravity if it has stabilised.  What temperature did you ferment at?  I started mine around 19°C, but then thought that was a bit low.  So I upped it to 20.5°C.  Once the SG dropped below 1.020, I increased the temperature further to 22.5°C, where it is at now, to help the yeast finish off.

I forgot to address one of your other questions about carbonating in bottles.  I did it fine by just adding my usual sugar addition for priming.  The Philly Sour is still a yeast, so it will consume the added sugar and carbonate your bottles.  No need to add new yeast.

With that higher than usual FG (assuming it is at FG), I would halve my priming rate and only put the brew into PET bottles.  Much less risk of bottle bombs than with glass bottles.  All the same, store the bottles in a tub should you have any bottle failures.

Yeah. Definitely stabilised. Its been almost 2 months now since I made  . Not sure about the fermenting temperature, Being wrapped in towels to keep the sunlight away, I don't like to check too often. That's awesome advice about the temp's but. I am still learning and appreciate any tips given (especially with a new yeast which is a whole new game of brewing).  Cheers heaps for the bottling advice too. I do use PET bottles, and that will be the FG. Gonna bottle tomorrow, so I can start on my next sour.  Do u think I should still halve the priming sugar after so much time? Thanks so much for your time

[Tremond_moreland]

27 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Definitely standard Specific Gravity scale.  Not that you really need confirmation, but that reading is around 1.026. 

It is still a fairly high gravity if it has stabilised.  What temperature did you ferment at?  I started mine around 19°C, but then thought that was a bit low.  So I upped it to 20.5°C.  Once the SG dropped below 1.020, I increased the temperature further to 22.5°C, where it is at now, to help the yeast finish off.

I forgot to address one of your other questions about carbonating in bottles.  I did it fine by just adding my usual sugar addition for priming.  The Philly Sour is still a yeast, so it will consume the added sugar and carbonate your bottles.  No need to add new yeast.

With that higher than usual FG (assuming it is at FG), I would halve my priming rate and only put the brew into PET bottles.  Much less risk of bottle bombs than with glass bottles.  All the same, store the bottles in a tub should you have any bottle failures.

P.S. Just in-case u didn't realize. I added lager yeast a month ago with dextrose. So u think that'll be enough yeast for bottling. Thanks again. Wish I could share my beers so u see how they turn out

[Tremond_moreland]

Cheers everyone for the awesome advice. I love sours and am so keen to make some delish ones. U guys rock!

 

[Shamus O'Sean]

21 hours ago, Tremond_moreland said:

P.S. Just in-case u didn't realize. I added lager yeast a month ago with dextrose. So u think that'll be enough yeast for bottling. Thanks again. Wish I could share my beers so u see how they turn out

Sorry, I missed your earlier comment about adding a lager yeast and some dextrose.  Hopefully, the combo of the lager yeast and the original Philly Sour consumed the dextrose.  I think it is most likely it did.  The disclaimer about that is your high Final Gravity, suggesting something did not get fermented.  However, dextrose being fully fermentable, is not likely to be that "something".  But I could only guess about what the "something" was.  Perhaps the cherries?

The funny thing is that it can be hard to re-start a stalled fermentation.  However, the same beer still seems to rouse up again once you get it into bottles with priming sugar.  Why does the stalled ferment have no trouble fermenting the sugar, but has no effect when the beer has stalled at 1.026 and presumably still contains fermentables?

There will be enough yeast in suspension to carbonate your bottles.

I would still use a half dose of sugar for priming.  But I guess, as PET does not usually fail catastrophically, you could use your regular dose and just keep an eye on the bottles.  Check for firmness.  Maybe open one after a week to see how it is going.  If the bottles start to get overly hard, or deform with pressure, or the early samples way over-carbonated, you could back off the lids a tiny bit to release some pressure.  Then nip them back up again.

[Tremond_moreland]

55 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Sorry, I missed your earlier comment about adding a lager yeast and some dextrose.  Hopefully, the combo of the lager yeast and the original Philly Sour consumed the dextrose.  I think it is most likely it did.  The disclaimer about that is your high Final Gravity, suggesting something did not get fermented.  However, dextrose being fully fermentable, is not likely to be that "something".  But I could only guess about what the "something" was.  Perhaps the cherries?

The funny thing is that it can be hard to re-start a stalled fermentation.  However, the same beer still seems to rouse up again once you get it into bottles with priming sugar.  Why does the stalled ferment have no trouble fermenting the sugar, but has no effect when the beer has stalled at 1.026 and presumably still contains fermentables?

There will be enough yeast in suspension to carbonate your bottles.

I would still use a half dose of sugar for priming.  But I guess, as PET does not usually fail catastrophically, you could use your regular dose and just keep an eye on the bottles.  Check for firmness.  Maybe open one after a week to see how it is going.  If the bottles start to get overly hard, or deform with pressure, or the early samples way over-carbonated, you could back off the lids a tiny bit to release some pressure.  Then nip them back up again.

Cheers man. Great advice. I really appreciate it. I'll see how I go and keep you posted