RossT7 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Hi all - I'm hoping you more experienced brewers can help me with a problem... Back in June this year, i made an English Bitter (Coopers Can, Brewcraft #70 Converter). Fermented for 3 weeks, then racked for 2 weeks. Bottled into 650-750ml longnecks around mid July. 1 carb drop added to each bottle (I wanted a 'traditional' low carbonation bitter) Stored them in a plastic crate under the house, where they have been ever since. Just recently (in the last few weeks), i had a few casualties - the bottles have broken at the base, where the side wall meets the bottom, and of course the beer has poured out. I have had about 8-10 casualties over the last 3 weeks. So... * I used a few different brands of bottle - and all are affected (screwtops, 750ml 'proper' beer bottles, 650ml 'proper' beer bottles) - otherwise I would have assumed a flaw in the batch of bottles. ALL bottles have cracked along the base. * I can't believe after 5 weeks of fermenting, there was still activity, but only bottled with 2 static hydrometer readings anyway * The #70 converter contained 250g (I think) of grains - do these contain extra sugars that may have kicked fermentation off again? * Why has it taken nearly 6 months for the bottles to start cracking? Any thoughts much appreciated - these are meant to be a Xmas present for the Father in Law - the way i'm going, there'll be nothing left by the 25th! Cheers Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Assuming that the bottles are sturdy and designed for storing secondary fermented beer - do not carry the words "no-refill", the issue is proabably related to infection. Grains carry micro-organisms, bacteria that will continue to create gas in the beer. A combination of this with time and perhaps elevated storage temp's will over-pressure the bottles. This is why we advise to bring grains to the boil for a short period or steep the grains and then boil the runnings. [rightful] This is a very dangerous situation. Disposal of the contents is the best course of action and you should wear full protective clothing when handling these bottles.[rightful] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossT7 Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 Hi Paul- Yup, I did boil the grains as per the destructions, strained and added to the wort. Interestingly, I tried one of the beers a few weeks ago, and it tasted wonderful (I assume infection would alter taste?) Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Yes, beer with sufficient spoilage organism activity to cause over-pressured bottles or gushers normally tastes funky as well. Did the #70 include maltodextrin, did you use enzyme? Any other details you may have omitted with the first post?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossT7 Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 Hi Paul - no enzyme. The #70 kit contains 1kg dex, 250g (I think) of grains, 25g(?) hops (Fuggles or Goldings i recall) and i think that was it. I don't remember any MD being in the kit, but could be wrong. I've had over pressured bottles before (back when i first started brewing) - and they REALLY exploded. I remember being woken up one night by what i thought was a firework - but was actually a few exploding Pale ales! On reflection, i'm wondering if i've got a little lax with bottle cleanliness - that would explain why some cracked (infection?) and some haven't, and the ones that haven't cracked actually taste quite good. I do wash/sterilise all the time - but maybe I need to pay more attention to it. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Yes, if the bottles that you tasted are not too gassy and funky, the problem lies with the bottles that failed - either infection, overprimed (not likely in this case) or faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Ross, I have had excactly the same symptoms some time back, I used to brew for my son as well, but try as I might I could not get him to rinse the bottles after he had drank them, the odd one slipped past the quality control system and I had a few bottles crack off just as you have described while the rest of the batch was fine, I eventually narrowed it down to that. Since I stopped brewing for him I have never had it happen again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS12 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 You also can have broken bottles from under filling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 You also can have broken bottles from under filling them. Is this something you have heard about or experienced? If it's through experience can you explain the circumstances under which this happened, to what level they were filled, priming rate, the temperature at which the bottles were stored, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS12 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Try using a plastic bottle and only fill to say 70% and you will be surprised at the presures that build up in it. I will try to look up the reasons but from memory it has to do with CO2 expanding more in air than in liquid. I will get the refence 4 you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I will get the refence 4 you Backing up statements with references! This is the internet sir [rightful] , type it and it becomes fact [biggrin] [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS12 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 O.K. no references needed But I did it once with a glass stubbie and drank about half and resealed it two month later opened it at room temp. and it almost took my hand off. All the other bottles were fine. Looked it up and the less air the safer it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Are you talking about filling to 70% but using the same amount of priming as if it were filled to the normal level? This would certainly overpressure the vessel. This is my understanding - without tracking down a Master Brewer and quizzing him on the topic: While a bottle is sealed, headspace CO2 is in equilibrium with the CO2 in solution. The drama of a pressure vessel failing is increased by the amount of gas under pressure and the actual pressure. If a bottle, with more headspace than normal, were to fail a more dramatic explosion would be expected because there is a greater qty of CO2 gas under pressure. Conversely, if the bottle were filled to a level with virtually no headspace, and it failed, it would not do much more than crack open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusty1 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Are you talking about filling to 70% but using the same amount of priming as if it were filled to the normal level? This would certainly overpressure the vessel. This is my understanding - without tracking down a Master Brewer and quizzing him on the topic: While a bottle is sealed, headspace CO2 is in equilibrium with the CO2 in solution. The drama of a pressure vessel failing is increased by the amount of gas under pressure and the actual pressure. If a bottle, with more headspace than normal, were to fail a more dramatic explosion would be expected because there is a greater qty of CO2 gas under pressure. Conversely, if the bottle were filled to a level with virtually no headspace, and it failed, it would not do much more than crack open. Sorry Paul, all I got out of that was for me to crack open a bottle of beer[pinched] ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kearnage Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 You guys are making me thirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS12 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Moral to the story is don't under fill you bottles,check that they are not to old, don't over prime them, use safety glasses when you open them or use coopers plastic bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If half of my posts make you want to crack a beer, I should get a bonus [biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusty1 Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If half of my posts make you want to crack a beer' date=' I should get a bonus [biggrin'] don't worry about half of your posts making me want to crack one, I reckon i have cracked 1 longneck this year for each of your posts (2666), the equivalent of around 110 cases![surprised If you get a bonus, I want a medal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty A Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If you have drank that much beer, I will give you a medal [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 about half of your posts making me want to crack one Whatever turns you on I guess trusty [lol] (Sorry couldn't resist [innocent] ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusty1 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 about half of your posts making me want to crack one Whatever turns you on I guess trusty [lol] (Sorry couldn't resist [innocent] ) I like beer, but not like that[pinched] ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Just as a point of interest, a trick I learned as a young bloke which we actually used to use to make a funnel out of a bottle is this. You fill a longneck with water (We used to use the Pickaxe bottles), I mean right to the top, then you force your finger in the bottle ensuring that you have a good seal around the neck of the bottle, holding the bottle with your other hand you extract the finger as quickly as you can and the bottom pops out of the bottle, usually leaving the rest of the bottle intact! A mate of mine showed me the trick and I often wondered how he found out about it. I havn't tried it for a long time now but it did work quite well, I would recomend using a glove or holding the bottle with a stout cloth if you intend trying it, I don't want anybody trying to sue me for cutting themselves on a bottle. Probably better that you just believe me and don't try it at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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