Toucan Pale Ale

[AnnM]

A while ago, in my never-ending search for a recipe for Pale Ale, I was advised to just use two cans of Pale Ale plus the 2 kits yeasts and nothing else. From reading this forum I get the idea that Coopers recommend always using some dextrose when using a lot of malt to balance it better. But aren't the cans of concentrate all malt? If so, should I add dex.to the Toucan?

[PB2]

We are a bit more relaxed about this thought these days.

 

We often hear from brewers who can get the Australian Pale Ale beer kit but are not able to find the BE2 or the LDME. One suggestion we may give is to use two cans, made to 25litres and both sachets of yeast. No other sugars required, apart from priming sugar for the bottles.

[AnnM]

Thanks PB2. The reason I asked is that I've been making Pale Ale kits with different combinations of BE2, BE2+LDME, LDME+Dex, and I'm not happy with any of them. All seem to come out too sickly, fairy-flossy tasting. So I thought I'd try the Toucan next, but then I thought that would really be the same as just using all malt, which I tried and found too sweet. Or would the extra bittering from 2 cans make up for that?

[PB2]

The second can is bittered malt extract and should give balance to the final beer.

 

Do you know of any brewers with formal qualifications, which might mean they have a trained palate, in your area?

 

It would be interesting to taste one of the brews you are happy with and one with the worst case of "fairy floss" symptoms...

[AnnM]

Thanks Paul. Actually, I've posted one of my "worst" bottles over to Dr Smurto in Adelaide for his opinion, as this problem is driving OH and me nuts! Haven't had a decent brew in months - they are drinkable but only just. OH is beginning to sneak VB cans into the bar fridge (shock, horror!) I don't know anyone closer who could have a taste-test, but a neighbour of our property on the north coast home brews (with Coopers) and his brews have the same sugary taste, so maybe it's just our taste-buds which are out!

 

PS: I see you can now add Smileys! Woo-hoo. [happy]

[PB2]

Hopefully, Mark can help you out...

[Muddy Waters]

[bandit] Sorry Ann - I haven't got anything intelligent to add I just wanted to see the smileys for myself [wink]

 

[unsure] I'm intrigued by your fairy floss flavour issues and am keen to hear how the toucan Pale Ale goes if you give it a shot.

 

I've never done a straight Pale Ale myself. I'm a huge fan of Cooper's Sparkling Ale [love] but have always been a bit indifferent to the Cooper's Pale Ale (I only drink it when I need yeast - A shame the Sparkling Ale yeast isn't as viable [crying] )

 

Good luck with you investigation [rightful] hopefully the good Dr can help weed out those subversive flavours [ninja] they really do sound like a bit of a mystery [alien]

[John]

Hi Ann

 

Cant help you directly - but I can share some of the lessons I learned. I tried 2 versions of a non-Coopers IPA. The first was the kit with a can of light malt extract and 15g of Goldings hops. The hops were steeped and bunged into the fermenter prior to pitching the yeast. The second version was similar, but was a toucan (once again also a non-Coopers kit). The ide was to keep the beer balanced (i.e. add more malt extract so need more hops to balance the flavours)

 

The first batch was also too sweet/malty without any apreciable bitterness or finish. Pretty yuck actually. The toucan was better, but also quite sweet/malty, with a slight bitterness, then nothing. Also pretty average. Probably also a bit like fairy floss actually.

 

In my case I left them to mature for over 3 weeks without much improvement. Getting desperate I boiled another 25g of Goldings hops for 12minutes and left it steeping untill it cooled down. Then I poured a glass of beer, had a syringe and added varying amounts of "hop juice" untill the taste was to my liking. I took note of how much to add and basically opened the beer (Screwtop Pet)and sqirted the same amount of hop-juice into each bottle and left it for another week.[sad] What a difference - the result was amazing - goodby sweet taste, hello malty brew with a dry hoppy finnish.

 

I also tried dropping another carbonation drop in before the "hop juice" thinking it would counteract the loss of any CO2 from the opening but I wouldn't recommend that - the buggers make mini-volcanos that needed a firm hand to keep from overflowing untill the fizz subsides. Comparing both batches (with/without the carbo drops) There seemed to be more fizz with the ones that didn't get the carbo drop.

 

So you could try to have a testing session with some hop-juice handy and see if that gets the flavour closer to what you like. That way you could take note of a recipe you like for next time - or you could attemp the late bottle hop addition if you are feeling brave.

 

A few considerations - try not to suck up too much hop residue - a few of my experiments got a lot bitterer where I injected too much hop sediment. Also - inject the hop juice in gently - a few bottles appear to have developed an oxidised taste after a month.(An alternative is just to drink them quickly[biggrin]

 

This worked for me - it was a case of toss the batch or risk playing with it. Not sure if this is of any benefit to you or not - as I said - this is just a lesson I learned from a past brew.

[AnnM]

Hi guys!

 

Firstly, Muddy - I love your smilies!

 

Secondly, John - Your post is very helpful and backs up my feeling that the beer is just unbalanced - too much malt, not enough bittering. I've had this feeling all along, but have been getting various bits of advice regarding infections, etc. I've never tasted the olden-days HB with what is called the "typical HB taste", but I imagine this is what it's like. Strange though - you'd think that using all malt would solve that problem. It seems odd that our neighbour's HB has the same sugary taste to me, but he still uses table sugar, whereas I only ever use BE2 or malt. I like your idea of the syringe and the hop juice, but I've managed to rescue the dud brews another way: I've got a batch of DA which is not quite to our tastes, so I mix one third DA with two thirds "fairy floss" PA in the glass and it's quite drinkable like that.

 

Thanks for your responses guys! I'll let you know what the good Dr Smurto's verdict is. [cool] Ann

[PB2]

Ann, perhaps your description relates to the age of the extract?? Do you have records of the Best before dates on the products?

[AnnM]

Unfortunately no Paul. I always buy them at the same Woolworths supermarket and I've now started checking best before dates because someone told me it's best to buy them with at least 2 years to go. Last week I was going to get another PA but when I checked the PA's the BB dates were all November 2011, so i didn't buy any. (All the other flavours were 2012.) What is your recommendation?

[PB2]

Okay, product freshness (or the lack of) may be your problem [unsure]

 

But we can't confirm this as you don't have any records of BB dates.

 

The general rule for ingredients, fresh is best (see my signature block).

 

Here is a cut-and-paste from our brewing FAQs (the link is also in my signature block) -

 

Will the brew be okay to make if the can is past the \u2018Best Before\u2019 date?

Coopers Home Brew cans contain hopped liquid malt extract. Liquid malt extract darkens over time and develops toffee/molasses like aromas. This process is accelerated when temperature is increased. This is not such a bad thing with intentionally dark brews but may be undesirable with lighter styles. If you wish to persist with making up a brew past its Best Before date (out of curiosity or otherwise) it\u2019s worth getting fresh yeast from a Home Brew Specialist store to ensure that the brew ferments thoroughly.

 

 

[AnnM]

Am I missing something here Paul? The cans certainly weren't PAST their BB dates. Surely if a can is marked "Best Before November 2011" it shouldn't be too old? Do you then also subscribe to the "BB at least 2 years ahead" theory? Does this mean I have to do the rounds of the supermarkets to find cans with enough time left on them? (Grrrr @#$%#^#$%^$% [sad] ). At least though, I'm getting closer to the source of the problem...thanks.