Hopping Toucan

[Bear1525228171]

I have tried a few 2 Can recipes which came out good but I would like to experiment with different hops to match my tastes. As I'm relatively inexperienced with their flavours, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

I enjoy sparkling ale style flavours & aromas, ingredients:

1 x Australian Pale Ale

1 x Real Ale

cultured yeast from Coopers Sparkling Ale

 

Cheers, Bear

[PB2]

Can you list any commercial beers, with late hop character, that you like? From this we may be able to point you toward hop varieties try.

[MatthewS4]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but my questions are very similar. With coopers kits going for $9 at times for 1.7kg of malt extact, I cant justify spending 10-12 bucks on Dry Malt Extract per 1kg, hence the attraction to use 2 cans of coopers basic kits as you also get hops and yeast saving even more money. I made a 2 can brew with 2 x coopers larger and some late hop additions but it was so BITTER it ruined the otherwise perfect beer. Hopefully this will fade over time as it is now 2 months since bottling.

 

Heres my questions as I want to brew a beer with a similar flavour to little creatures 'Bright Ale'.

 

1. Can I boil a can of coopers to remove the bittering? If so how long does it take? ie boil for 20 mins to remove half the IBU, or 50 minutes to remove all the hops from the liquid extract.

 

2. Is there a list of the coopers kits with the IBU rating if the kit is made with just the can and 1kg of sugar as per the normal instructions? This would help in choosing the kit that best matches the IBU of the beer I am trying to make.

 

 

The idea I have had is to brew as follows...

 

2 cans of Coopers real ale 1.7kg kits.

12g of saaz hops

12g of Amarillo hops

 

Boil 1 can only of the C.R.A with 5 litres of water for 50 minutes to remove the hops from the can of extract.

Remove from heat and add the second can of extract (we wont boil this for long to keep the hops), once dissolved bring back to the boil and add 50% of each of the two types of hops listed above.

Boil for 13 minutes and then add the rest of the hops.

Boil for 1-2 minutes and then remove from heat, put a lid on the pot and place it in a bath tub that has ice and water in it to cool the wort rapidly. After 20 minutes of the pot sitting in the ice water, pore it into the fermentor and top up with cold and hot water as needed to reach 23 degrees C and 23 litres and then throw in the two packets of Coopers yeast and ferment at 21 degrees C.

 

What do you recommend I change with the above method to use two kits instead of only 1 coopers kit and 1.7 kg dry malt extract that I usually use to make the above?

[Borris]

Hi Matthew,

 

I haven't tried LCBA so can't comment there.

 

Late hop aroma and flavour are a lot more volatile than bitterness and are easily removed by boiling, which is why Coopers don't advocate boiling there international and Thomas Coopers Selection ranges of beer kit. To the best of my knowledge the Original Series kits have no aroma hopping son no worries there. Hop bitterness on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. I'm not aware of any instance where a kit has been deliberately boiled to remove bitterness but if so doing it would take a very long boil, maybe 3 hours or more to make a significant difference. Someone who wears a lab coat to work might be able to make a suggestion. (PB2 I'm looking in your direction)

 

A list of Coopers kits with there Pre-ferment IBU can be found under brewing products. Bear in mind that some of the bitterness will be lost during fermentation but in general if it starts with more IBU it will finish with more. Also some kits have a greater apparent bitterness than their IBU would indicate. The Australian Pale Ale for instance tastes more bitter than it's actual IBU would indicate, as it ferments more completely than some other beers, in particular dark ale and Stout. A rule of thumb seems to be that the darker the beer kit the less completely it will ferment, leaving more residual sugars to balance the bitterness. Maybe steep some crystal grain (200g) as this will help hide the bitterness.

 

Not sure about the Saaz hops mixing with the Amarillo. They might get lost in the mix. I'd lose the Saaz and either double the Amarillo or replace them with Cascade. Boil 12g for 5 minutes and throw the other 12g in dry after 72 hours. The chux trick located herehttp://www.coopers.com.au/inside-the-order/talk-coopers?g=posts&t=1671 works a treat.

 

Not necessary to boil the second kit. Keep in mind that the smaller your boil volume the quicker it is to cool and the easier to handle and pour into your fermenter without spilling any.(trust me on that last point [devil])

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bear1525228171]

Can you list any commercial beers' date=' with late hop character, that you like? From this we may be able to point you toward hop varieties try.[/quote']

Hi Paul,

 

Here are some I've had in mind, no particular preference

. Coopers sparkling

. James Squire Hop Thief (prefer less bitterness)

. Grumpy's Brewhaus Pale Ale

 

Thanks for your comments Borris, it's great to get feedback from other beer fans in a forum like this.

 

Regards, Bear

[PB2]

Boiling won't reduce the bitterness.

 

The darker Coopers beer kits do ferment as completely as lighter coloured varieties - there remains an aroma and flavour, which gives a perception of more body.

 

2 x Real Ale beer kits to 23 litres will be massively more bitter than LCBA, just one kit + BE2 will be closer to style. Cascade/Amarillo may be a better hop combo for this style - double the Amarillo.

 

Sparkling Ale doesn't have any late hop.

Hop Thief - the 2009 used PoR and Southern Hallertau but perhaps you could try a Real Ale beer kit + 1kg of Light Dry Malt, made to 23 litres and dry hopped with 30g of Galaxy.

Grumpy's Brewhaus Pale Ale - never tasted it [pinched]

[MatR1]

I've done a few before and found the 2 x PAs the best due to the lower bitterness. Even still you need to keep the hop schedule very late.

 

For your first attempt I would stick with the lower AA hops like Amarillo. I just did one with 15grms @ 5mins & 15grms @ flameout and it is a bit too bitter so next time I'll drop it to 10grms @ 5mins & 15+grms @ flameout.

 

You could also do 7grms @ 10mins might give you a bit more flavour with the same IBU.

 

Using the Real Ale kit with the Pale might call for some crystal or additional malt to balance out the bitterness.

 

Either way. Just give it a go. Experiment and work out what you like. [cool]

[AnnM]

 

2. Is there a list of the coopers kits with the IBU rating if the kit is made with just the can and 1kg of sugar as per the normal instructions? This would help in choosing the kit that best matches the IBU of the beer I am trying to make.

 

Hi Matthew! Here's a list of Coopers IBUs when made up to 23L (purlioned from another HB forum...):

 

Using the formula: IBU of tin*1.7/23

 

Beer = IBU on can = IBU (based on 23L)

Lager = 390 = 28.8

Draught = 420 = 31.0

Dark Ale = 590 = 43.6

Real Ale = 560 = 41.4

Stout = 710 = 52.5

Pale Ale = 340 = 25.1

Mex Cerveza = 270 = 20.0

Can Blonde = 420 = 31.0

English Bitter = 590 = 43.6

Euro Lager = 340 = 25.1

Heritage Lager = 390 = 28.8

IPA = 710 = 52.5

Irish Stout = 560 = 41.4

Aust Bitter = 495 = 36.6

Pilsner = 420 = 31.0

Sparkling Ale = 490 = 36.2

Trad Draught = 420 = 31.0

Wheat Beer = 300 = 22.2

 

These IBUs have been generally accepted on that forum and are used to punch into the various recipe software programs running around.

 

Hope this helps! I think you have a great idea there about doing toucans instead of buying the more expensive fermentables - I noticed Woolies this week has specials on all the Original lines at $9.50, so I've bought up big!! [happy] I've so far done a SMOTY Ale toucan (very bitter but yummy) and I've got a two PA one I'm about to bottle - tastes fantastic out of the fermenter! [joyful]

 

[PB2]

The figures, Ann supplied, are okay for the brew made up to 23 litres prior to fermentation. [cool]

 

For estimating the bitterness for the finished beer, see page 6 of Brewing FAQs

[MatthewS4]

Thanks heaps for the replies, they were all very helpful. If the bitterness cant be boiled off, then what would you think of this...

 

Coopers Original Draught 1.7kg

Thomas Coopers light malt extract 1.5kg

made up to 23L with the following hop additions.

 

10g B-Saaz Pellet 15 min.

10g Cascade Pellet 15 min.

16g B-Saaz Pellet 0 min.

16g Cascade Pellet 0 min.

 

Since I will buy the hops in 80g packets this will allow me to make 3 brews out of the pellets if it turns out good.

 

Cost of this 23L brew will be under $29

[MatR1]

Looks ok. Will be quite bitter @ approx 40IBU.

 

I would personally add another 500grms of Dry Extract to help balance it a bit.

 

Use 300grams of the Malt in 3L of water for your boil. Add the rest to your fermenter.

[PB2]

Why not try making it to your recipe and see how the final beer turns out?? You should have a good idea by tasting once primary fermentation is finished.

 

If too bitter for your taste you can let it age in the bottle to soften the bitterness then you can make the next brew with an adjusted recipe. [biggrin]

[Bear1525228171]

After much research & advice from the forum, this is what I brewed:

1 Can Real Ale

1 Can Aust Pale Ale

100g Crystal Grain

10g Amarillo @ 5mins

20g Amarillo @ flameout

Saf US-05 Yeast

Temp range: 20'C -> 22'C

 

It smelled great after primary fermentation, taste was quite bitter but potential evident, time will tell.

 

PS. Amarillo is nice, experimenting is going to be fun, Thanks Mat

 

Cheers, Bear