AnthonyR1525228508 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hi all, Most of my bottled beers have a nice smooth yeast cake in the bottom of the bottle after secondary fermentation has finished. When I pour the beer the cake stays firm and I can get most of the liquid out without getting anything extra in the glass. But on two brews (not consecutive brews either) the yeast cake is what I'd describe as crumbly - it looks like small grains of sand or crumbs of something. If I tilt the bottle the yeast will swirl around and it is pretty hard to keep the stuff out of the glass when pouring. Carbonation levels seem normal. The beer is not foul, but it's not the best drop either. All my bottles are stored in similar conditions in the cupboard out of the light and fairly stable temperatures. I wash out my bottles after use in plain water. When bottling I wash them all out again by soaking in warm water with unscented bleach or nappy-san. I rinse them out with fresh watere and give them a squirt with a no-rinse solution. Any ideas on what might cause problems in secondary fermentation or what might cause the odd appearance of the yeast cake? Anthony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If it's the same for all bottles it may be caused by the primary fermentation. Can you be more descriptive about the smell and taste? What's your cleaning and sanitation methods? Give us a run-down of your recipe method. What type of yeast, temp etc.? Anything else you might think is not relevant [happy] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonardC2 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 A highly flocculant yeast like cooper's will compact nicely in the bottom of primary. I leave my beers in primary till it reaches a stable FG,however long that takes. Then I give it another 3-7 days to clean up by products of fermentation,& settle out more. By then it's clear or slighly misty. I then bulk prime in a bottling bucket & bottle. In 3 days or so,they settle out clear with just a dusting of yeast dregs at the bottom of the bottles. I give them 1-2 weeks in the fridge,depending on how dark they are or gravity. That gets the dregs packed down tight on the bottom for an easier pour. Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1525228508 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 PB2, Yes, it seems to have affected all bottles in the batch. The latest affected batch I started on 4/10/11. 1 x Coopers OS Draught - supplied yeast 1 x 1.5kg Country Brewer liquid malt 150g crystal grain steeped Pitched @ 22C OG 1040 FG 1006 Bottled 18/10/11 Normally I write down the yeast code but for some reason missed it this time. But the can was well within use by - probably 18 months. It was the first and so far only time I've used liquid malt. Plenty of life in the beer, but no head retention. Tastes ok at room temperature, as long as it is the first pour. But I wouldn't offer it to anyone. Fridging for any time between say one hour and several days changes the taste - I'd call it industrial, but looking at How To Brew website, I'd say either metallic or medicinal is another way to describe it. Brewed in the new-style FV. At the same time I had a Pale Ale (BE1 + dry malt) going in the old-style FV right next to it on the kitchen bench. That brew is just fine. So brewing temps don't seem to be the issue. I wash out the FV with the hose after use and store it. I wash it with unscented bleach (diluted as per instructions) when preparing for another batch. It is rinsed with water until I can't smell bleach. Same for the bottles. Bottles get a squirt with no-rinse sanitiser. The other affected batch is a two-can Home Brand lager brew. Yeah, yeah, I know but I got two cans for $4 when Woolies was getting rid of their home brew stock. Both cans had more than 12 months of use-by time left. This batch has been in the bottle for nearly 12 months but age has not mellowed it. It has the same problems with the taste, but there's not much difference chilled or at room temp. At first I figured that's what happens when using Home Brand, but when I had the same problem again thought maybe there's something going on. Hope that's enough info to give you some clues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Apart from steeping, how did you handle the grains? Steeping method, any boiling, etc.? Any delay in pitching the yeast and/or was the brew left uncovered for any length of time? Does the beer that is decanted prior to the yeast clumps look bright or slightly cloudy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1525228508 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 No delay in pitching yeast. FV is covered immediately and not touched again. Grains were put straight from the bag into a pot of water which had been boiled and taken off the heat. Steeped for 20-30 mins and then strained into the FV. The grains are then rinsed through with tap water to get the last out of them. No further fiddling. The first glass of beer is crystal clear at room temp - a bit hazy when chilled, (but not as chill-hazy as some other brews which are otherwise perfectly fine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Grains were put straight from the bag into a pot of water which had been boiled and taken off the heat. Steeped for 20-30 mins and then strained into the FV. The grains are then rinsed through with tap water to get the last out of them. No further fiddling. Grains are supposed to be cracked, did you crack the grain? Did you boil the liquid from the grain after the steep? (although I haven't done at times, forgot, and had no bad effects) To be honest, I wouldn't be rinsing with water straight from the tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1525228508 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Grains are supposed to be cracked, did you crack the grain? As far as I know these grains are ready for steeping. I'll check the packet info, but I'm pretty sure you just chuck them in the hot water... To be honest, I wouldn't be rinsing with water straight from the tap. Not sure about that. It's the same tap water I use for brewing, so I figure it can be used for rinsing the grains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Without tasting and testing it, I can't be sure [unsure] What I had in mind was a wild yeast infection or slight bacterial issue from the grain, but your methods sound okay. I guess there is still some chance that it's wild yeast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Grains need to be cracked. Unless someone milled or cracked the grain prior to you receiving them and if this is so then how long has it been since they were packaged? Were they whole, looking a bit like bird seed, or split with some powder and little pieces and the skins (husks)? I am betting they were whole. [pinched] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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