Looking for some guidance

[JonathanM3]

Instead of a Toucan, I ended up buying a 3.15 lbs (1.43 kg) bottle of liquid pilsener malt (w/ carapils) from Northern Brewer here in the states.

 

My plan (such as it is) is to brew the Coopers Original Lager, the pilsener malt, the kilo of brewing sugar that came with the lager kit. I was looking to up the bitterness a bit from the 21 IBU of the lager kit, and just wasn't sure how to go about it (boil, dry hop?).

 

To that end, I purchased 2 oz, of Nugget Hops (9-11% Alpha) along with an 8oz package of Sterling Hop pellets (6-9% alpha) that are supposed to be an American Saaz alternative. I don't want to make things too bitter, but as my ingredients above indicate, I'm looking for a high ABV, and I want to compensate for that.

 

I also purchased, as a second yeast, liquid White Labs WLP001 California Ale yeast that is supposed to finish clean and dry.

 

So, what is the best way to use the hops, and how much? I don't want to overpower with hops, just a nice bitterness (30-35 IBU?) and get some flavor / aroma added with the Sterling hops.

 

Ingredients -

Fermentables:

Coopers Lager Can

1.43 Kg Liquid Pilsener Malt

1 lbs Coopers Brewing Sugar

Some dextrose available (~700 grams)

Yeast:

Coopers kit yeast

White Labs WLP001 California Ale yeast (liquid)

Wyeast yeast nutrient

 

Hops:

2 oz Nugget (high alpha)

8 oz Sterling (6-9% alpha)

Whatever is already hopped in the lager kit (21 IBU in 23L)

 

Thanks everyone (Cheers?) for your help, you make this quite the lively forum.

[PB2]

It's not so much the high alcohol, rather residual sugars that bitterness balances out.

 

Boil a 1/2 oz of the Nugget for 15 mins and strain into the FV.

Dry hop with 1 oz of Sterling

[JonathanM3]

Awesome, thanks! I didn't want to overdo it, not that I couldn't handle it, but I wanted something my family / friends could enjoy.

 

In the boil, should I put some of the malt or brewing sugar? Also, is it a good idea to put the dry hops in a bag?

[CATpAW Brewing]

on the matter of dry hopping and bags, my approach and logic is:

I use a bag so that I dont have to wait post fermentation for hop pieces to settle, or avoid racking.

 

If using pellets or plugs, careful with your bag size. the hops will swell considerably, so your bag should have at least 75% free space when filled with the pellets or plugs.

 

the other thing to watch is that the hop bag will just float if not weighed down, and of course you then dont get the maximum hop and brew exposure. I weigh my hop bag down with SS bolts - surprising how much weight is needed.

 

hope this helps

[JonathanM3]

Thanks a lot Paul and Catpaw! I did order a hops bag (I thought of pretty generous size, we'll see) That should handle one ounce of pellets just fine.. It's OK for the bag to sink to the bottom?

[JonathanM3]

MY last question is - When boiling water an adding the hops, will it make any difference in the final product if I add some of the liquid malt in with the hops? I have seen debates on this around the home brew forums, but most go way over my head. Something about needing the malt protein to coalesce with phenols from the hops --- Any guidance? If I should add some of the liquid malt, how much, and to what volume of water? I think I was going to boil the coopers recipe amount of water - 2L. Is that enough?

[PB2]

Boiling in water is easier. In the first instance, try the easist method then critique the beer. If not up to your expectations, review the method.

 

If you are determined to boil them in wort, try 300g in 2 litres or 500g in 3 litres of water.

 

As for dry hopping, it doesn't matter too much if the hop bag floats or sinks.

[JonathanM3]

Great advice as always, Paul. Really, I always prefer the easiest way, so boiling in water works for me. I don't know where you find the time to help all of us on this forum.

 

I never paid too much attention to the actual kinds of hop in the beers I drink. I know I don't like beers that are too floral. When I set to picking out hops for this recipe I put together, I just looked for ones described as "spicy" rather than floral. I know it's up to me whether I like the beer I make, but I just was wondering if you think the Nugget / Sterling is a good combination? Is there any hop varieties that just aren't compatible?

[PB2]

No rules when it comes to hop combos. Oh, except some hops overpower others. eg Cascade (or most other North American varieties) can smother varieties such as Saaz. Never the less, the end resultant should still be quite drinkable.

[JonathanM3]

Awesome, thanks for your help.

[JonathanM3]

I put this beer in the fermenter today. The specifics -

 

1 - Coopers Lager Kit (1.7kg)

1 - Pilsner liquid malt extract (1.43 kg)

1 - Box Coopers Brewing Sugar (1 Kg)

1 - Squirt of Honey (1 tbsp?)

1 - shake of dextrose (1 tbsp?)

 

(These last two were on a whim)

 

I boiled .5 oz (14.17g) Nugget hop pellets for about 16 minutes.

At flame out, I added .5 oz Sterling hop pellets, just for fun and let it steep about 10 minutes.

 

Next I diluted to 23L. As I was diluting I did my best, but only was able to reduce the temperature to 23C, I hope everything works out OK.

 

I pitched White Labs liquid California Ale yeast and the packet from the kit, just to make sure I had enough Yeast action.

 

Here is where my questions start. Prior to pitching the yeast, I drew some wort from the tap and dumped it back in the fermenter, then I drew some more wort to take the OG. From my eyes, it looked like it was 1062... Does that seem in line with the ingredients outlined above?

 

[Kearnage]

I plugged your ingredient list into a calculator and it came up with an OG of 1063.

 

Dan

[JonathanM3]

Wow that was quick. A note on the calculator is it the one at liquorcraft.au? If so, is it looking for amounts in kg? And kits, do you enter them at their actual weight, or their expected fermentables? (~80%)

 

Thanks Kearnage.

[Kearnage]

I get there via a diferent site, but yes it's the same calculator!

I just plonk in the actual weight in KG assuming they have already allowed for the non fermentable components - it seems to match very closely with my actual results with more simple recipes, gets a bit iffy with more complex ones.

(I didn't advertise the site because they refuse to stock Coopers products).

[JonathanM3]

No problem. It's the only one I found that seems to handle kits properly. (A little more documentation would help it, at least for those of us over here in the states)

 

I dropped the yeast in about 5:30 / 6:00 PM and its already started producing CO2 through the air lock (12:00 AM here) I'm pretty excited. I hope I haven't gotten too ambitious for a second batch. I'm a little worried about the temperature in my basement, but the cool overnight temp should help keep things down. It's right in the range of both yeasts 23C, but its the upper optimum range of the WLP001 Cali Ale yeast. I'm thinking because it's is heavily documented to produce few off esters, I will be alright. I have it wrapped in a wet t-shirt, and a spare 1.5 gallon container of cooled water. I covered the rest (minus the airlock) with some fiberglass blanket insulation I had laying around.

[PB2]

We advise against returning a sample back to the brew - increases the risk of spoilage. [rightful]

 

With any measuring there is some degree of error - I normally get about 1060 for a brew made with 2 x 1.7kg beer kits + 1kg of dextrose made to 23 litres. [cool]

[JonathanM3]

I guess I just need to learn to trust my hydrometer. I usually taste the sample (at least I did with my first batch), I sanitized everything this time, including the tube that came with the Coopers kit so I figured at least for the OG it was alright to put the sample back.

 

After a night of fermenting, no uncontrollable fermentation yet, which I think is a good thing. It seems to smell better so far than the Coopers Wheat kit did at the beginning, maybe due to the added hops... I'm crossing my fingers, I don't have a lot of trust until the beer has been bottled and I start to drink it.

 

Also, I'm not really sure what to call my beer as far as style.

[JonathanM3]

AArgh. I hope I haven't spoiled anything. It got quite a bit warmer in my basement than I would have liked and my beer got up to about 25C, I know the Coopers yeast can handle it, but I was worried about the White Labs WLP001 I put in there (optimum 20-23C). What is strange is that range is different than the 70-75 fahrenheit listed on the bottle.

 

Anyways, I freaked out a little bit and snuck a frozen jug of water under the fiberglass blanket I had nearby and I left it. The temp was starting to go below 18 degrees. Fermentation appears to still be ongoing, I was just worried about what the side affects of the large charge in temp.... I removed the water bottle and the fiberglass blanket, temp in the basement is about 23C, fermenter now at 21C

 

I did take a sample, SG is now about 1024 (From 1062) as of a little over 3 days of fermentation. The sample actually tasted pretty good. I am worried for no reason? I'm thinking the coopers and the wlp001 yeasts are good strains for my lack of temperature control.

 

Also, is that an alright SG for 3+ days into fermentation?

 

One other thing - Wondering how to go about naming my beer...

[JonathanM3]

After 7 days of fermentation, the sample still tastes pretty good, getting more hop aroma coming through than before. I measured a SG of about 1.020-1.022, sample was 22C, ambient 25.5C.

 

Do I need to worry about anything here, all indications were I'd get a lower FG than that? I'm bottling these in glass so I wanted to be extra sure to get this right. Also, I am keeping it in the fermenter for about another week, give the hops some extra time.

 

Would the 200g of maltodextrin or carapils malt in the liquid malt extract cause a higher final gravity?

 

I believe I read this before from Paul - I shouldn't add dextrose or something to spark the yeast, right?

[MatR1]

I'd be leaving it for another week like you said (especially if you are bottling in glass). Maybe check again in 5 days time.

 

You seem to be stressing alot...[biggrin] [biggrin]

[JonathanM3]

Just over-parenting, I guess :)

[JonathanM3]

Alright, I bottled this brew in glass for the first time, which went smoothly. My question is this, it seemed to work alright keeping my first batch (Coopers Wheat kit) at ambient temperature of 70-75 F in my basement, CO2 production worked well and the beer seemed to age just fine (at least to my limited knowledge). I know I'm supposed to lower the temperature and keep it at 60F or something like that after two weeks to "clear" the beer. Is that necessary? Will this batch of beer (where "clearing" would be beneficial) clear after I refrigerate it?

[PB2]

Time is the main factor for the yeast settling. The yeast will sediment out nicely over weeks and months.

 

As an experiment, after the bottles have been conditioning for 2 weeks place one bottle in the fridge, wait about 2 to 3 weeks then make a side-by-side comparison with a bottle that has been sitting in ambient all that time.

[JonathanM3]

That's what I thought, just wasn't sure. Now, will the beer mature better at ambient? Or will it mature flavor wise in the fridge too? With your hopping instructions, I believe my brew will be about 31 or so IBU, with a relatively light color, with a "spicy" I guess you would call it aroma from the Sterling hops. The hops are a bit low for a Pale Ale, or are they? I'm used to the American interpretations, so my tastes are skewed to thinking Pale Ale = Hop your brains out.

 

On a different note, I was pleasantly surprised to find on a recent excursion to Rochester, NY store "Beers of the World", a nice bottle of Cooper's Sparkling Ale waiting to be purchased. I look forward to trying it... Any pouring instructions for the proper sparkle?

 

Cheers

 

Jon

[PB2]

Swirl the contents gently to resuspend the yeast then pour into a glass, which is large enough to take the whole bottle. [biggrin]