Stuart C Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 I've just put down my 4th brew. The first had no bubbles but I think that may have been to overpriming in the keg with almost double the sugar. The second has had no bubbles and I'm starting to wonder if I have a leak on the seal of one of my kegs. I thought I read somewhere that you can do secondary firmentation in the same bucket/tub that you do the 1st firmentation in. How is this and don't you need pressure on the lager to get carbonation? Help I'm starting to think that two flat lagers are not not good, but if the other two are flat as well then I may give up. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Stuart, In order to achieve reasonable carbonation during secondary fermentation you must have the vessel sealed. Otherwise, the CO2 will escape. Also, keep the bottles at or above 18C for the first week. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart C Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 Ok still sounds as though I am doing things correctly. Mabye you can comment on the way I am doing things. Here are the brew logs for the last two lagers. _____________________________________________________________ Brew 4. Coopers Std (Green Top) Lager Brewing Sugar Glucose Powder 1Kg Tap Water 22.5 Ltrs Yeast from the coopers tin Date Down 11/06/03 Original Gravity 1042 Priming Sugar Tate and Lyle Granulated 0.090 kgs Final Gravity 1001 Primary Fermentation for 17 days in 5 Gallon (25 Litre) Fermentation Bucket Lid not sealed all the way around just open to the front. Brewing Temp 24Deg C (Could not keep it any cooler due to weather) Date Kegged 28/06/03 - Keg is Plastic King Keg 5.7 gallon. Date Tasted 30/07/03 (Today) Comments. Half Pint Poured into Pint Galss Pressure from Keg Strong. Appearance - Head of about 1 inch or 25mm which reduces to 10mm after a couple minutes. - Colour of hay like a normal lager - Very small bubbles cling to outside of glass but vanish after 3 mins. - No bubbles to bottom of glass which travel up like a can or draught lager from the Pub. Score - 5/7 Aroma/Smell - Smells really sweet not like lager which smells a little bitter - Does smell a little bitter too but you might describe it as hoppy?!!? Score - 4/8 Taste - Flat - Quite like a lager/hoppy/a little bitter after tang/taste - Sweet smell gets in the way of the taste a little. Score - 20/35 However if the carbonation was good it would be in the 30 mark and if the sweet smell did'nt affect taste budds as well the would be 33/35 General Comments while brewing. Going to leave in 1st fermenter for 14 days then rack into the keg. Melted sugar in sauspan with some of the brew before kegging. Upon Kegging the tap was loose. This meant transporting it into the bathroom and emptying it into another keg which was quickly sterilised. However when doing this there was an eliment of handling the brew with clean hands and aeration. When finally done filled the keg with CO2 until the pressure valve let out a squeeling sound because too much C02 was put into keg. _____________________________________________________________ Brew 3. Coopers Pilsener Brewing Sugar Glucose Powder 1Kg Tap Water 22.5 Ltrs Yeast from the coopers tin Date Down 11/06/03 Original Gravity 1042 Priming Sugar Tate and Lyle Granulated 0.100 kgs Final Gravity 1000 Primary Fermentation for 17 days in 5 Gallon (25 Litre) Fermentation Bucket Lid not sealed all the way around just open to the front. Brewing Temp 23/24Deg C (Could not keep it any cooler due to weather) Date Kegged 28/06/03 - Keg is Plastic King Keg 5.7 gallon. Date Tasted 30/07/03 (Today) Comments. Half Pint Poured into Same Pint Glass after finish first tasting above. Pressure from Keg Medium. Appearance - Head of about 1/2 inch or 12.5mm which reduces to nothing in the middle but a little which clings to edge of glass. after a couple minutes. - Colour of light hay. Lighter than Brew above. - Very small bubbles cling to only the bottom of the outside of glass but vanish after 30 seconds. - No bubbles to bottom of glass which travel up like a can or draught lager from the Pub. Score - 3/7 Aroma/Smell - Doesn't smell sweet but has pungent almost bitter smell, which is ok if you are not analysing the lager. Score - 6/8 Taste - Flat - Like a lager/hoppy/bitter after tang/taste almost too stong in taste though Score - 25/35 However if the carbonation was good it would be in the 30 mark. General Comments while brewing. Going to leave in 1st fermenter for 14 days and then rack into Keg. All went to plan upon kegging. Primed the brew with sugar melted in the sauspan in some of the brew. Then topped off with CO2 until the pressure valve squeeked because of too much pressure. Hope this is enough for people to get their teeth into and comment on. Frank/Paul I think I need a reply from you guys as to why its not working. Thanks Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Stu, that's a lot of info!! Brew 4 Try making the total volume no more than 23 litres. Final gravity of 1001 is very low. Should be no lower than 1004, SG of water is 1000! 17 days fermentation at 24C is too long....at this temp, using 1kg of Glucose Powder, it should take no more than 7 days. I'm guessing you have allowed the Keg to go through secondary fermentation at 18C or higher? Sounds like the CO2 is not dissolving into the beer...Are you allowing the beer to cool down to 4C (optimum temp for beer to take up CO2 into solution) before serving? We don't have King Kegs available in Aust so I reckon you should get advice from the people who sell them. Note - The green top Lager actually uses an ale yeast and is a lager in style only (ie colour and bitterness). Brew 3 Pilsener has a true lager yeast which is highly attenuative....an Fg of 1000 is way too low....try replacing the Brewing Sugar with Light Dry Malt. Lagers can take 17 days for primary fermentation but this is normally at temperatures like 15C. Lagers tend to take a lot longer to condition up in a keg...most would argue that Lagers perform better with cold conditioning and artifical carbonation. Final note: I could only find information about 5 gallon King Kegs on the net. However, if you are using 5.7 gallon kegs with a brew volume of around 23 litres then there is probably far too much head space for secondary fermentation. Once again, not being familiar with King Kegs, we are only guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart C Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 :lol: It sure is a lot of info I have a homebrew record keeper computer programme. I'm guessing you have allowed the Keg to go through secondary fermentation at 18C or higher? Yes I keep it in the same place at the same temperature as the 1st fermentation. Are you allowing the beer to cool down to 4C (optimum temp for beer to take up CO2 into solution) before serving? Not sure. When should I do this Im hoping that you are going to say that you start this a few days before drinking and until finished because we do keep a keg in the fridge when it is ready to drink. I have a very understanding missus who likes beer/lager too. :) The taste tests were done at about the same temperature as the 1st fermentation took place at. Neigther of the kegs have been moved to the fridge yet. if you are using 5.7 gallon kegs with a brew volume of around 23 litres then there is probably far too much head space for secondary fermentation. You got the correct keg and size I just checked. What can I do about the rest of the head space it seems a bit of a funny size to make a keg because most homebrew lager/beer kits I have seen make the 22/23 litres. With this Keg you can pressurise it with CO2 which is what I do and it has pressure release valves built into the cap. I guess I will have to talk to the keg people about it too. I like the sound of the PET or PEP bottles but can't seem to find any in England do you know if you guys supply them to any homebrew shops in the Sussex or Surrey Counties? Thanks for your help Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Stu, To get an accurate feel for carbonation level you should be performing the taste test after the beer has chilled sufficiently in the fridge. The normal process I follow with keg conditioned beer is: Place in the fridge and wait a day, Next day, remove headspace pressure through the pressure relief valve, Hook the CO2 up and set at 70kpa (sufficient to push beer through the lines), Pour off the first jug of very frothy beer, Second jug should settle down, If not, turn off gas and pour beers as normal until virtually no flow is coming out of the tap, Then increase CO2 pressure to 70kpa again. Good to here that you plan to speak to the King Keg people, Not sure if PETs have gained any popularity in the UK as yet. You may be able to get some help from Scott Williams at The Innhouse Brewery Co, our UK agent. His details are on our home page, contacts, Homebrew, International. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart C Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 I retract my previous taste test. The Austrailian Larger (Green top) having had it in the fridge for 4 days at a real chill it has hit carbonation and has bubbles :lol: . It took a rubber band around the top of the pressure release valve so that the C02 does'nt escape that is where I belive it was leaking from and wasn't building sufficint pressure. The larger now tastes a great. Date Tasted 08/07/03 Comments. Several Pints Poured into Pint Glass (refilled several times) Pressure from Keg Strong. Appearance - Head of about 5 inches or 125mm which reduces to 30mm after 3 minutes. - Colour of hay like a normal lager - Many bubbles which cling to side of glass and stick to the bottom and produce other bubbles. - Now looks very similar to the stuff you get in a can or draught lager from the Pub. Score - 6/7 Aroma/Smell - Yummy Score - 7/8 Taste - Still not carbonated enough BUT wasn't under enough pressure for long enough before the keg got drunk :roll: - Just like a lager/hoppy/a little bitter after tang/taste Score - 33/35 Total 46/50 or 92% brilliant. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Excellent work Stu!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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