Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Hi guys, In the endless quest to improve my beers, I figured this day would probably come eventually, and today was that day. I went down to BOC on the way home from work and picked up an O2 cylinder and regulator, which I plan to connect a hose to, to use with one of these things to directly inject oxygen into the wort just before the yeast is pitched. This should see the oxygen levels higher than simply dumping the cube in from a height. There's a bit of a thread going on the other forum at the moment about it, and pretty well everyone is saying that they've noticed quicker lag times, faster, cleaner and healthier fermentations, and better tasting beer after doing this. So I figured I might as well give it a shot, the worst that can happen is that the beers stay the same quality as they are now really. If I can get a connector for the regulator to fit a hose to in time, the first batch I'll be trying this on will be my Bohemian Pilsner that is due to be pitched on Monday week. I'll definitely report back my impressions once it's ready - this one being a regular recipe it will be a good candidate for comparison to previous batches. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Wow, that's dedication! I'm inspired to stir my wort just that much more vigorously now, I hadn't realised that oxygenation was so important to brewing; another lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 That is going full on. Next thing we will know you are making a brewpi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Wow' date=' that's dedication!I'm inspired to stir my wort just that much more vigorously now, I hadn't realised that oxygenation was so important to brewing; another lesson learned.[/quote']Yeah, once it's all set up though it'll only take a minute or two to oxygenate it properly with the pure oxygen as opposed to air which takes a lot longer. I've known for a while that proper oxygenation is the best scenario for the yeast, and I guess it's been in the back of my mind for a while too, but after reading so many others saying how their beers improved with it, I decided to give it a go myself. That is going full on. Next thing we will know you are making a brewpi. Difference with that is that a brewpi won't make my beer any better than it already is. I can appreciate constant tracking of the fermentation etc., but it's not something I really care about that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 That is great Kelsey. Just out of curiosity, how much did this set up cost? How many minutes of run time will it provide in that tank? Dry yeast manufactures say it is not necessary to oxygenate wort, at least for gen 1. Not sure if re-pitched slurry is more like liquid yeast? I am guessing that it is. I'll be interested to hear you findings. Cheers. Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Hi Kelsey. I do admire the dedication. Big cash investment, so I hope it is worth it given other cheaper aeration improvement alternatives. I admit I am a little surprised with your interest in this area given your already sound practices of yeast propagation & solid pitching volume understanding. Dare I say it, perhaps a case of keeping up with the Jones's situation with some of the AHB boys? Sincerely good luck with it, I'll be interested to hear how it goes. I can't see myself ever heading down this path though. On the bright-side, if it doesn't really improve anything to any great extent at least you can re-imburse the outlay cost by filling balloons for the kids at the local Royal Show! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just out of interest what % of oxygen is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 That is great Kelsey. Just out of curiosity' date=' how much did this set up cost? How many minutes of run time will it provide in that tank? Dry yeast manufactures say it is not necessary to oxygenate wort, at least for gen 1. Not sure if re-pitched slurry is more like liquid yeast? I am guessing that it is. I'll be interested to hear you findings. [img']smile[/img] Cheers. Christina. The regulator was $100 (well $99), and the cylinder itself is on a plan where I pay $79 a year with one free refill. I haven't paid the $79 yet, gonna check out the email I got after I got home after the cricket finishes tonight I'm not sure how many minutes run time I'll get, I suppose that depends on what pressure I run it at; it doesn't need to be very high though. Probably around 5-10PSI maybe. Haven't found any definitive information on that yet. But I suppose anything is better than nothing. The regulator I have measures in kPa rather than PSI, so it's somewhere around 30-60 kPa. The cylinder itself is about the same size as my CO2 cylinder I use for my kegging system. I wouldn't expect I'd need to re-fill it within 12 months though, especially with the amount I actually brew. Mind you if this results in faster ferments I might end up brewing more beer I would think that re-pitched dry yeast would be more like liquid yeast yes. I suppose that includes yeast grown in a starter with re-hydrated dry yeast too. In any case, I don't use dry yeast much anymore and I'm actually gonna pick up a liquid US strain to replace my 05 with next week, although I'll use the 05 I have in my jar in the next APA rather than just chuck it out. So once that happens all my yeast will be liquid strains. I'll also update on how the fermentation goes re the lag time etc. once I do this on my next pilsner. I normally get lag times of 24-30 hours on those batches currently so it'll be interesting to see if more oxygen in the wort decreases this. I'm excited either way and looking forward to testing it out. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just out of interest what % of oxygen is it. It's pure oxygen. BOC states it at 99.5% purity or higher. It is industrial grade' date=' but personally I don't care about all that industrial/food/medical grade shit. It's still the same gas. Hey Lusty, I guess it was probably the next step after the yeast propagation etc. I started doing that for similar reasons, i.e. better fermentations, better beer. But that only takes it so far. If this will improve my beers even further then I'm in. I do realise there are other ways to get ideal oxygenation into wort, but these also take a lot longer because they rely on air, which is only about 21% oxygen. With this set up I only need a minute or two, and there's a lot less opportunity for nasties in the air to get into the wort too. I'm happy to pay a one off amount for a regulator and about $6.60 a month for that convenience. [img']cool[/img] Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Snatch Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 That's a good deal on the cylinder and refill price. Way better than what I'm looking at. Will you upgrade to the magic S/S wand or just tube it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 That's a good deal on the cylinder and refill price. Way better than what I'm looking at.Will you upgrade to the magic S/S wand or just tube it in? Yeah, I'm going to Craftbrewer next week for more base malts, yeasts and something else I've momentarily forgotten, so I'll pick up one of those Oxywands while I'm there. Just dipping the tube in is very inefficient compared to a diffusion stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Dangerous stuff that. Be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yes it can be if not handled correctly. I'd like to think I have enough common sense for that not to be an issue though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just out of interest what % of oxygen is it. It's pure oxygen. BOC states it at 99.5% purity or higher. It is industrial grade' date=' but personally I don't care about all that industrial/food/medical grade shit. It's still the same gas.[/quote']As you say, YES it is the same gas, but not the same standard of tank they are being held in & delivered from. Remember this? CO2 - Do I really need food grade? I took the added liberty of reading your last post in that thread that stated the non-return valve eliminating back-flow issues that contribute to degrading the inside of the tank. Fair call on that one. That said, how do you know what state the inside of the industrial tanks are in regard to rust, flaking, seep-able toxins, & other forms of degradation when you purchase them? And what methods & cleaning procedures are used by the manufacturers/suppliers to maintain any internal standards of these types of industrial-only use tanks? If it's going in my beer, I'd be sticking with the glass lined food grade tanks myself. Just my 2 cents, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Google oxygen fire raaf orion. They were all trained professionals just fixing a gaseous oxygen system. Here is a good video they showed us during our trade training in the RAAF. Sure it liquid oxy but same bad mojo if mishandled https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9sIT6P_05I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 This reminds me of an earlier discussion about oxygen, in another thread. The reason to oxygenate is because the yeast need oxygen to synthesize fatty acids and sterols, but these can be found in/supplied by dead yeast cells. For those of us without an O2 tank, using sloppy slurry rather than rinsed, or boiling some old brewer's or baker's yeast in the starter extract, can reduce oxygen requirements: https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_yeast_use_oxygen When I re-pitch I use the sloppy slurry method and my lag times are pretty respectable. I shake the FV for 45 seconds to oxygenate it, which is supposed to supply 8ppm of oxygen. Cheers, Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 I remember that thread. I suppose there is one point of difference here, and that is that there is no pressure in the fermenter to cause any back flow when the cylinder runs out, and that they're mostly used for welding/cutting purposes so again hardly any chance of things going back up the hose into the cylinders. Given that it's BOC one would think they'd keep their cylinders in tip top condition anyway; any dirt/oil particles or whatever don't mix well with pure compressed oxygen. I'm not concerned about it to be honest. Plenty of others are using industrial grade with no problems. For commercial operations it's a bit different given they are liable if someone gets sick or whatever. It's not a very difficult process really. Hook up the regulator properly, turn the cylinder on, adjust pressure to desired level, do what needs doing then turn it all off again afterwards. Not really much chance for things to go wrong if it's all done correctly. Be aware of the risks and dangers of misuse/mishandling for sure, but I'm not one to let those things put me off doing something. Look at the results of mishandling a motor vehicle yet we all still drive them every day without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 As long as it is kept clean from hydrocarbons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Best make sure nobody lets out a fart while I'm using the thing then... Seriously, if heaps of people were injuring themselves with such systems, nobody would be doing it anymore and/or you wouldn't be able to just go down to Bunnings or BOC or wherever and buy them for private use. There should be no problems at all if it is set up and used properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Ive been dumping one third of cubed wort then shaking the 2 thirds before pitching... Anyways... ill be likely doing the same soon as a will be moving on from cubes most likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Best make sure nobody lets out a fart while I'm using the thing then... Seriously' date=' if heaps of people were injuring themselves with such systems, nobody would be doing it anymore and/or you wouldn't be able to just go down to Bunnings or BOC or wherever and buy them for private use. There should be no problems at all if it is set up and used properly.[/quote'] Look at all the BBQ gas bottle incidents. Still legal but alot of accidents that injure and kill people . Pure oxygen is alot more dangerous. All I am saying is research the correct handing and precautions when using. I can tell you when we use oxy on aircraft the storage and bottle carts are kept the other side of the tarmac. All tools used are only for oxygen. And are cleaned regular to prevent any contamination which may lead to an incident if hydrocarbons come into contact with oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yes, well with all due respect I think working on aircraft on a tarmac is a slightly different thing to injecting wort with oxygen for a minute or two in the laundry or wherever at home. I'd imagine there would be a lot more risk of contaminants causing problems there, or in other industrial situations where they are used. The instructions that came with the regulator are pretty clear on how to make sure problems don't occur, as I'm sure they are with the BBQ gas bottles too. Problem is most people are morons and don't read them properly or at all and then end up injured or worse as a result. I'm not one of those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStew Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yes' date=' well with all due respect I think working on aircraft on a tarmac is a slightly different thing to injecting wort with oxygen for a minute or two in the laundry or wherever at home. I'd imagine there would be a lot more risk of contaminants causing problems there, or in other industrial situations where they are used. The instructions that came with the regulator are pretty clear on how to make sure problems don't occur, as I'm sure they are with the BBQ gas bottles too. Problem is most people are morons and don't read them properly or at all and then end up injured or worse as a result. I'm not one of those people. [/quote'] Your probably right mate. Just paranoid after being told it was going to kill me for so many years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Its the best way to go... The yeast will love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 I get where you're coming from though. It is dangerous stuff if incorrectly handled. The way the set up is though, there really shouldn't be any issues unless there is dirt/oil etc. on the connections for the regulator itself, that being the outlet of the cylinder/inlet of the regulator, and the outlet of the regulator/hose connection barb. At this point these are all clean of such things, and should remain so once the rest of the set up is here because I won't be removing the reg from the cylinder after every use once it's in place. At the other end there is obviously the hose connected to the barb fitting on the regulator, then the Oxywand thing connected to the other end of this hose. The only time the cylinder will be on other than initially to test for leaks is when this wand is submerged in wort in the FV. I don't think there's much chance of wort catching fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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