harvesting dry yeast

[kierank]

I have completed a lager brew and used a 15g packet of Morgans European dry lager yeast. I have washed this yeast twice and it is now settling out. Once it is finished can I use this complete batch of yeast for my next brew or will it be too much? should I divide it up into two or three batches or will that not be enough yeast for a 20lt brew with a s.g of around 1050

[Waylon]

Just re read that its a lager, what temp you want to ferment at

You easy have enuff if you use the whole yeast cake washed or unwashed,

 

Ive washed yeast a few times in the past but now I just use unwashed with great success and store unwashed yeast

 

You just make sure its clean sterile you will be fine with a third...plenty of yeast for 20 litres but its lager so use the whole lot and start lower temp

 

[Petermur]

Just re read that its a lager' date=' what temp you want to ferment at

You easy have enuff if you use the whole yeast cake washed or unwashed,

 

Ive washed yeast a few times in the past but now I just use unwashed with great success and store unwashed yeast

 

You just make sure its clean sterile you will be fine with a third...plenty of yeast for 20 litres but its lager so use the whole lot and start lower temp

[/quote']

 

Hi Waylon,

I've never re-used yeast before, thinking that the process was too involved and time consuming, so I use a fresh packet each brew.

Are you saying that you simply use some of the remains in the fermenter for your next batch.

Could you share your process with us for making another Ale - do you mean the sloppy trub, how much do you keep, how do you store it, how long does it keep, do you just pour the lot in to your next brew, is it as good as using new yeast each time etc, etc. I'm very interested in your method.

Why are we all buying new yeast.

Thanks.

[kierank]

I have read where brewers use the unwashed yeast and that it works well but I am washing it to eliminate some of the trub as I do an all grain brew and I probably have some hops left over in the trub. Washing it isn't a big issue just a bit more time consuming.

 

[Waylon]

YES mate,

 

Batch 1 if dumping on trub, try to keep fairly sessional beer 10-20 litres Low hopped, low color, low ABV, yeast of choice to get job done,

 

Starting with a 10 litre craft kit and stepping it up is an option too

 

Before doing so make sure you have nice clean tasting beer!

 

I make liquid yeast starters on stir plates and then cultivate from them too, so theres lots of options, I also have 10 litre, 16 litre, 28 litre cubes of fresh worts so its easy to judge and play around with batch sizes,

 

I dump batches on trub a lot, never had problems, although I reuse yeast from larger batches too by splitting it into sterile jars, many options mate...

 

Slurry unwashed is safe and simple but if your fussy about it! simply wash it...

 

 

 

 

[Petermur]

YES mate' date='

 

Batch 1 if dumping on trub, try to keep fairly sessional beer 10-20 litres Low hopped, low color, low ABV, yeast of choice to get job done,

 

Starting with a 10 litre craft kit and stepping it up is an option too

 

Before doing so make sure you have nice clean tasting beer!

 

I make liquid yeast starters on stir plates and then cultivate from them too, so theres lots of options, I also have 10 litre, 16 litre, 28 litre cubes of fresh worts so its easy to judge and play around with batch sizes,

 

I dump batches on trub a lot, never had problems, although I reuse yeast from larger batches too by splitting it into sterile jars, many options mate...

 

Slurry unwashed is safe and simple but if your fussy about it! simply wash it...

 

 

 

[/quote']

Thanks Waylon,

I currently have an extract ale batch in the fermenter, using LME, Caramunich, Pride of Ringwood, and Mosaic, fermenting with US05 - intend to bottle soon.

I'm not fussy or after any specific taste - but I absolutely like beer - so using your safe and simple slurry method, can I store one-third of the trub taken straight out of the fermenter and keep in a sanitized jar refrigerated for a couple of weeks.

Can I then make up a similar extract batch and this time not use any US05, but pour the room temperature unwashed trub that I've kept into the wort.

I'd be glad to hear if any other fellow brewers use this method or have any tips that may help.

I'm looking forward to trying the re-using yeast method, but so far have only been using a fresh packet each time.

Thanks.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Pour it in cold, you get reduced lag times doing this instead of letting warm up for hours or whatever first.

 

I can't be bothered faffing about rinsing yeast so I just harvest from my starters instead.

 

In any case, dumping a new wort on top of the whole yeast cake is a massive overpitch, unless the previous batch was about half the volume or less of the new batch. Much better to simply take a portion of the yeast cake and store it, or re-pitch it straight away if you have wort ready for it to go into.

[Waylon]

I agree Kelsey, it is a lot of yeast...

 

and I have also copied Kelseys advise by simply taking a portion of the yeast cake and storing it, harvesting yeast starters is a great option, portion of the yeast starter in a 500ml jar and save in the fridge for another yeast starter...

 

But basically speaking! dumping a new wort on top of the whole yeast cake Involves NO starters and first time around WORKS fine...then Ide recommend using slurry from that batch and saving unwashed slurry in 500ml sterile jars in fridge 0-4 degrees...lasts for many months in fridge...

Has made me good beer and made good yeast go a long way

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

It will work in the sense of it fermenting fine, but it's still a massive overpitch if the new batch is the same size as the old one. Generally this leads to a pretty bland beer because the yeast don't have to multiply much if at all, which is when a fair amount of the esters and whatnot are produced.

 

It's best to just pitch the proper amount of yeast, or at least close enough to it. Over pitching by somewhere between 3 and 5 times the required amount is not good practice and you won't get the best beer you can by doing this. Maybe this is why you are having issues with no-chilled beers more than the no chilling?

 

From the other thread:

YES me too but Im always open to learning new and better ways to improve my beer…

Here is one right here... don't over pitch your yeast by massive amounts!

[Waylon]

I don't realy have an issue with yeast cakes and recommend doing so

As I mentioned above I harvest yeasts and pitch yeasts in many different ways... All my yeast are made from starters these days,and harvested from them in different ways (With credit being due to Kelsys ideas- thanks mate) not including dumping strait onto of yeast cakes on occasions... yes and saving unwashed yeast cakes in 500ml jars,

100% correct the fermenting is fine when dumping on top of trub... and also allows the brewer to ferment lagers and ales at lower temps reducing the esters... it also produces strong healthy yeast that's already adjusted to the brewing environment...

 

I personally brew different size litre batches with my preferred size being 19 litre batches and perfect to keg and lift from chest freeza, so the over pitching is rarely a concern for me...It comes down to common sence,

 

To assume unwashed trub techniques are wrong or produce results such as low hop aroma are false in my personal experience!

 

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'm not saying unwashed trub techniques are wrong. What I'm saying is over pitching by something like 5 times the amount needed will lead to bland beers, regardless of fermentation performance. Pitching on top of a yeast cake might work when the new batch is at least double the size of the batch that the yeast cake came from, but if it's the same size then it is a massive overpitch.

 

Now, it's up to you whether you take that on board or not, but personal experience doesn't change the fact that dumping a new batch onto a yeast cake from the same sized batch is a huge over pitch and you won't get the most out of the beer, or the yeast.

[Waylon]

So If I have a 9 litre batch of say -1042- wort and step that up to a -1046- 36 litre batch surely that's not a huge over pitch

 

Ive currently got a 38 litre batch of -1044- og beer with CALIFORNIAN LAGER YEAST @14 degrees that has liquid yeast from a starter I will be dividing the yeast cake up on this batch as I smashed my harvested jar last night...

[Phoenix76]

Hi Kelsey & Waylon

 

Interesting thread this one, but I'm a bit confused with your terms "trub" and "yeast cake".

 

Okay, I know what the trub is, but what do you mean by "yeast cake"?

 

And am I reading correctly that I can dump fresh wort straight onto the trub, or would that be what you are calling over-pitching if I'm doing a 23lt batch on top of a 23lt batch. Hope I make sense now

 

Cheers

Bill

[Otto Von Blotto]

So If I have a 9 litre batch of say -1042- wort and step that up to a -1046- 36 litre batch surely that's not a huge over pitch

.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say' date=' that scenario is fine and not an overpitch. However if the first batch was 36 litres, and then you dumped 36 litres of fresh wort onto the cake, it would be a massive overpitch. There's a time and a place for that technique is all [img']cool[/img]

 

Yeah Bill, in this case the trub and yeast cake are the same thing.. just the sludge in the bottom of the FV. Dumping 23L of new wort onto a cake from a 23L batch would be overpitching by quite a bit. It's better to simply take a portion of the cake for the new batch in this instance.

[Phoenix76]

Cheers Kelsey, got it my head now.

[ImaginativeName]

In need of some advice here, looking to use yeast from current batch in the next batch, I've dry hopped with cascade, and will be putting galaxy in the next one.

 

I want to keep this simple, but I'd also prefer not to have too much of the cascade carrying over, however it's not the end of the world if it does, it's just that I'm trying to educate my palate, so ideally, I should use fresh yeast, however.....I had two CPA tins, and used both packets of tin yeast for one batch.

 

So I guess my question is, what should I do here?

 

If I just take 25% (sound about right?) of the slurry and pitch that, would the level of taste/aroma of the cascade be negligible?

 

I'm really not prepared for yeast washing (as I've seen demonstrated) equipment wise, I don't have the jars for it. Maybe I could do it in plastic bottles?

 

Antiphile started a thread about "harvesting for dummies", it sounds good, but the the pictures weren't showing in his post, so I'm not 100% sure on the details.......

 

Halp......

 

JP

[Otto Von Blotto]

I think you'll be alright to just take a portion of the yeast cake and use it in the next batch. The flavour carry over shouldn't be enough to be noticed, especially if you are dry hopping it with Galaxy.

[ImaginativeName]

I think you'll be alright to just take a portion of the yeast cake and use it in the next batch. The flavour carry over shouldn't be enough to be noticed' date=' especially if you are dry hopping it with Galaxy. [/quote']

 

This is exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks Kelsey.

 

Does 25% sound about right?

 

I assume that I just pitch that straight into the wort without any kind of fuss?

[ChristinaS1]

I think you'll be alright to just take a portion of the yeast cake and use it in the next batch. The flavour carry over shouldn't be enough to be noticed' date=' especially if you are dry hopping it with Galaxy. [/quote']

 

This is exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks Kelsey.

 

Does 25% sound about right?

 

I assume that I just pitch that straight into the wort without any kind of fuss?

 

That would be fine. You may find this link helpful:

 

https://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-harvesting-re-pitching

 

As Kelsey mentioned, you might see a somewhat shorter lag time if you poured it into a jar and stuck it in the fridge overnight, then poured it cold into your wort the next day, but that is not essential.

 

If you store it (in the fridge of course) longer than two weeks you might need to make a starter. I have never stored it longer than overnight myself.

 

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is how often you can do this. If you are using liquid yeast for Gen 1 (for which you have to make a starter; consider the Shaken not Stirred starter method) and have excellent sanitation practices, Wyeast says 7-10 generations. Dry yeast is different (the drying process damages the cells slightly) and probably should not be reused as often; there are no guidelines from the dry yeast manufacturers on this. So far I have only used dry yeast.

 

As the risk of infection increases with each re-pitch, and I am an extract brewer who does not do a full wort boil, I have never repitched more than twice. I have had no problems. If I did a full wort boil I might risk going as far as Gen 5 with dry yeast, and Gen 7 with liquid yeast.

 

Before repitching, make sure that the slurry smells good. Have some dry yeast on hand just in case.

 

Note that Gen 3 can taste fantastic, better than Gen 1, as the yeast adapt to your brewery.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[ImaginativeName]

I think you'll be alright to just take a portion of the yeast cake and use it in the next batch. The flavour carry over shouldn't be enough to be noticed' date=' especially if you are dry hopping it with Galaxy. [/quote']

 

This is exactly what I wanted to hear, thanks Kelsey.

 

Does 25% sound about right?

 

I assume that I just pitch that straight into the wort without any kind of fuss?

 

That would be fine. You may find this link helpful:

 

https://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-harvesting-re-pitching

 

As Kelsey mentioned, you might see a somewhat shorter lag time if you poured it into a jar and stuck it in the fridge overnight, then poured it cold into your wort the next day, but that is not essential.

 

If you store it (in the fridge of course) longer than two weeks you might need to make a starter. I have never stored it longer than overnight myself.

 

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is how often you can do this. If you are using liquid yeast for Gen 1 (for which you have to make a starter; consider the Shaken not Stirred starter method) and have excellent sanitation practices, Wyeast says 7-10 generations. Dry yeast is different (the drying process damages the cells slightly) and probably should not be reused as often; there are no guidelines from the dry yeast manufacturers on this. So far I have only used dry yeast.

 

As the risk of infection increases with each re-pitch, and I am an extract brewer who does not do a full wort boil, I have never repitched more than twice. I have had no problems. If I did a full wort boil I might risk going as far as Gen 5 with dry yeast, and Gen 7 with liquid yeast.

 

Before repitching, make sure that the slurry smells good. Have some dry yeast on hand just in case.

 

Note that Gen 3 can taste fantastic, better than Gen 1, as the yeast adapt to your brewery.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

I just saw a nice little video:

 

 

Made it look very easy to end up with a very clean looking yeast, as with most things, the job was made simple and efficient by using the the right tool.

 

I imagine I could get several brews out of that single harvest and it would all be 2nd gen.

 

Let's say I get 4 batches from it, harvest from the last one, then I have 3rd gen to see me through another 4.

 

Anyway, that's just speculation, but it sounds good in my mind, and I'm keen to sink my teeth into this.

 

Cheers

 

JP

 

Very good info on that site, thanks for the link.

[ChristinaS1]

Hi JP. Your idea to save Gen 1 yeast cake in four containers is interesting, but you may need to make a starter for the later ones. I might experiment with that myself. Thanks!

 

I watched that video and it is interesting, though I am not sure that he is correct about the yeast surviving better under water than green beer.

 

If you are going to save your yeast for weeks or months, then yes, it probably is a good idea to remove the dead yeast (to avoid autolysis) and hop matter before storage. If you are going to reuse it quickly, it might better to not separate out the trub. The dead yeast acts as nutrient in your next brew.

 

One thing he did that is good is that he had that blow torch going to create an updraft. That is good laboratory procedure. I do the same, except I use a kerosene lamp and not a blow torch.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

 

[Mark D Pirate]

Interesting link Christina , 1 litre of thick slurry per 117 litres for normal ales

scale that down to our batch sizes and shows that pitching on the cake is indeed a massive over pitch .

 

I'm not going to argue yeast with the people that bred mine !

[ImaginativeName]

Hi JP. Your idea to save Gen 1 yeast cake in four containers is interesting' date=' but you may need to make a starter for the later ones. I might experiment with that myself. Thanks! [img']smile[/img]

 

I watched that video and it is interesting, though I am not sure that he is correct about the yeast surviving better under water than green beer.

 

If you are going to save your yeast for weeks or months, then yes, it probably is a good idea to remove the dead yeast (to avoid autolysis) and hop matter before storage. If you are going to reuse it quickly, it might better to not separate out the trub. The dead yeast acts as nutrient in your next brew.

 

One thing he did that is good is that he had that blow torch going to create an updraft. That is good laboratory procedure. I do the same, except I use a kerosene lamp and not a blow torch.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

 

I would think the alcohol in the green beer would provide better protection than water could.

 

I thought I would have a go at this method, just because I like the result, his end product looked like the yeast harvested from commercial breweries.

 

I bought a couple of these bottles, going to see what I can come up with for a backyard separatory funnel.

 

http://www.coca-cola.co.uk/drinks/appletiser/appletiser