King Ruddager Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Does anyone know the minimum temperature that reactivated Coopers yeast will work at? My dark ale is off to a somewhat slow start and it seems to have dropped to about 16.5°, so just wondering if that's too low. Regardless, I have put the heat belt on it to bring it up so that it stays between 18 and 19 now. Also, any general observations on this one? So far mine appears to have formed a very bubbly krausen that only covered about 60% of the top of wort in the first 48 hours and it seems to have stagnated in that state for another 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrox Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I just finished fermenting an IPA with it. At the start it was around 17ish and it got off to a slow start. I raised it to 18 and it fermented much more vigourously. I have used it a couple of times and without scientific evidence it seems to do really well at 18, but seems to flocc out about 17ish or just below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 From my research on it it will ferment at 15c even though I do agree with Mattrox that it will be much much slower fermenting at temps below 18c. I have found that the yeast gives me too many esters over 18c so I usually ferment at 17c with a bigger starter than I would a US-05 or nottingham yeast. It goes fast till ~ 1018 then chugs away for 3 or 4 days before it gets to FG. Only yeast I have seen do this but thats the way it works for some reason with me. In my early batches with it I used a 1L starter only and it would get to 1024 or so then chug away for another 6 or 7 days to FG. You won't be disappointed with it though KR. One of my fav yeasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 The heat belt was on it overnight but not much has changed. Might try raising it to 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I vaguely remember PB2 mentioning he has either fermented a brew himself, or has knowledge that the strain can ferment quite low. I personally look at the strain as being British in origin (rightly or wrongly), & treat it as such with how I generally ferment the British style yeasts I have already used. That is to ferment around the 20°C mark, & on occasion, & couple of degrees higher if I want the available ester profile. I haven't had any problems with my ferments using the CCA strain, & the lowest I've fermented it was 18°C. As is often advised when fermenting at lower temperatures, increasing your pitching rate is probably a good & safe idea. Adhering to the outlined re-activation procedure is also important as to test viability, & guarantee a suitable volume of yeast is being pitched. Good luck with the brew. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 I reactivated 6 bottles (the video only shows 4 because I did two the next day) to the letter of the instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Its no secret that the commercial coopers beers are fermented higher end for ales... So it seems a no brainer to follow suit and ferment it at least 21-23 I was reading a post on here for an Australian pale ale clone and fermenting recultivated coopers yeast @ 16-18,,,, that's not a clone its going to make a completely different beer profile... coopers beers are yeast driven beers that chuck out esters If you wanna ferment ale yeast @16 degrees go for yeasts like Nottingham that are suited, it seems everyone thinks lower is best when its not always the case, choose the yeast for the job and keep the yeast healthy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 I don't want to ferment it at 16, I want to ferment it at 18 as per the instructions. Unfortunately it fell to 16 so I just hope I haven't put it to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Its no secret that the commercial coopers beers are fermented higher end for ales...So it seems a no brainer to follow suit and ferment it at least 21-23 Our commercial ales are fermented at the 17C 'ish mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Our commercial ales are fermented at the 17C 'ish mark. Woot ! Knew my tongue wasn't lying to me ....did a GP / Cascade SmaSh and ran the CCA at 16.5 ° with a ramp up to 19 to finish off , taste at bottling time was just what I wanted I drink enough Coopers Pale to know how it tastes , my poor attempts at cloning it fermented just fine at similar temps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 eat some humble pie a will do... ...and good to get that cleared up I havnt recultivated a coopers ale yeast nor have I tried a coopers clone buts it great to know that 17 is the go too temp for the commercial beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Still curious as to why an experienced brewer like Lusty is having such different results with the same strain as Greeny and i are ? I do always look for 6 of the freshest CPA longnecks i can find , build up starters of 1500 ml and pitch 1200 ml of that Also the only yeast i've intentionally bottled early (9-12 days) , Carbs up much faster and leaves enough yeast to give the right cloudy pour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenyinthewestofsydney Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Not saying I am an expert but the closest I have got in about 7 tries of cloning the Coopers Pale Ale with both the kit APA in the early days and all grain batches was a batch done at 17c for the bulk of fermentation down to 1018 ish and then ramp up to ~20C. The yeast was basically over pitched. Almost a 2L starter. I found if you ferment warm >18C with a normal 1-1.2L starter there are too many esters. I tried a batch at 17c with a normal starter and it slowed at 1024 and got too many esters. Thats my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Given my name has been dropped in it (so to speak), I feel obliged to comment. Its no secret that the commercial coopers beers are fermented higher end for ales...So it seems a no brainer to follow suit and ferment it at least 21-23 Our commercial ales are fermented at the 17C 'ish mark. I don't remember 17°C ever being mentioned as the ferment temperature in the past when speaking of how the notable ester in the commercial Coopers Pale Ale is produced. I admit that number comes as quite a shock (to me) for this brew. PB2' date=' Sometime back in a discussion on the forum about the ester profile of the CCA yeast, did you not state something along the lines that the ester profile presents to the same level at different ferment temperatures when brewing at commercial volume giga-litres versus small scale home brewing volumes? (i.e. at smaller volumes you need to ferment a few degrees higher than the commercial volume brew to attain the same ester profile) Something around a 2-3 degree swing? [img']unsure[/img] Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I agree Lusty, Cant always be right in our thinking or else we be working for NASA But Ive eaten humble pie before...Thought the coopers ales where somewhat in the low to mid 20s mark, but that was a guess based on the fact I was thinking the yeast had a bold ester profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I don't know why the yeast would throw different esters at the same temperature simply due to the size of the batch being fermented, but if that is the case I would be interested in an explanation of the science behind it. I enjoy learning stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think PB2 is telling Pork Pies... realy aussie beer brewed at slower cleaner temps is a real surprise! Haha just kidding I don't realy care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Not dropping you in it Lusty , I'm still a fairly new brewer and hoping to learn more , If we were getting such different results with say US-05 then pitch rates and aeration , yeast nutrition would all be compared to try and work out why ..... This could turn into a very interesting thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I don't know why the yeast would throw different esters at the same temperature simply due to the size of the batch being fermented' date=' but if that is the case I would be interested in an explanation of the science behind it. I enjoy learning stuff like that. [img']cool[/img] Due to stress perhaps Yeast under stress produces more esters than those not stressed, so under pitching could cause it. I have also read of people slightly under pitching hefeweizen yeast in order to produce greater esters. Lusty, in your discussion were pitching rates mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I don't know why the yeast would throw different esters at the same temperature simply due to the size of the batch being fermented' date=' but if that is the case I would be interested in an explanation of the science behind it. I enjoy learning stuff like that. [img']cool[/img] Due to stress perhaps Yeast under stress produces more esters than those not stressed, so under pitching could cause it. I have also read of people slightly under pitching hefeweizen yeast in order to produce greater esters. Lusty, in your discussion were pitching rates mentioned? That conversation was well over 2 years ago I reckon, so it's hard to recall everything. I don't remember under-pitching being mentioned, but that is not to say it wasn't. As usual Paul holds all the aces on that one! I am interested to hear Paul talk about this again. Sometime back, I was able to squeeze some approx. cell count numbers achievable through the re-activation process from PB2. Re-activated Coopers Commercial Ale Yeast Cell Counts Don't pay too much attention to my comments in that thread, as I was trying to understand the gap between required yeast cell counts advised in the Mr. Malty yeast calculator & actual cell counts produced through the CCA re-activation process. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 This thread?? COOPERS BREWERY - ALE FERMENT TEMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 PB2' date=' Sometime back in a discussion on the forum about the ester profile of the CCA yeast, did you not state something along the lines that the ester profile presents to the same level at different ferment temperatures when brewing at commercial volume giga-litres versus small scale home brewing volumes? (i.e. at smaller volumes you need to ferment a few degrees higher than the commercial volume brew to attain the same ester profile) Something around a 2-3 degree swing? [/quote']This thread?? COOPERS BREWERY - ALE FERMENT TEMP ...Anyway' date=' here's the thing - if you ferment a DIY Beer size batch at that temp you won't get the same characters thrown by the yeast. To get the sort of ester profile that we see from a 170,000litre brew, you need to ferment a 23litre brew at a temp at least 18C or higher. [img']sideways[/img] Thanks Paul. I knew you'd mentioned this somewhere. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 Well I checked the gravity today (day 6) and its presumably* dropped. Still not much krausen to speak of, but all batches are different ... plus of course I've never tried this yeast before. * presumably because I never take an OG reading any more but SG is now 1.024 which is surely lower than the OG would have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albers Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I have just put down a K&K brew using the Coopers commercial yeast - 6 stubbies of the Mild Ale When pitched, the yeast was very active and smelt fine After 5 days, the SG was only 1030 from an initial 1044. Remembered that this was the reason why I stopped using this type of yeast, as I often needed to supplement a batch with the packet yeast to get the SG as low as possible. Ferment temps in the 15-20 deg C range. Any ideas as what could be the cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ruddager Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 Oh yeah ... and it tastes just like Coopers dark already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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