Carapils

[Morrie]

Anyone using or has used Carapils? I'd be interested in your opinion please.

[Beerlust]

Hi Morrie.

 

I've used this Cara grain many times.

 

It is a very light crystal grain used for adding body to a beer without affecting colour & flavour a whole lot. It can be used in any beer style for that purpose, but becomes more useful in lighter coloured beers such as pilsners, lagers, kolschs.

 

I found a lot of new brewers confuse the use of this grain & wheat malt. Wheat malt is great to improve head development, while the Cara grains improve body & head retention.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Graculus]

Yes I use it.

 

I generally put it in lighter colour beers, although I have put some in English Bitter and a Stout.

 

It definitely does give beer a good head.

 

 

And the chooks like it too.

[Rob44]

Gday Morrie. Ive never used Carapils but ive done a bit of research. (i did pick up some pre-packaged carapils but they were out of date by a long shot.

 

Not sure if you brew AG or extract, but i put down an extract beer yesterday 'Cascade Draught'

This is the beer that i wanted to use carapils in as i thought the last draught i brewed was pretty watery.

Alas as i was putting the brew on i realised i didnt have the carapils, but something that Lusty has mentioned around the forum came to mind which was brew the beer without adding to many things so the differences can be discerned more easily. So this one has a the whack of Cascade so ill see how she turns out.

 

The other thing i was thinking is (the more i think about it the more silly i feel)- does the Draught can already have some carapils in the bill and would brewing it with 18 or 19L improve the body.

 

Anyways back OT, sorry mate.

 

From what ive read use carapils at no more than 5% and pretty much what Lusty has mentioned already, its used to improve body and head on light beers without affecting the color. And adding only a point or 2 to the gravity.

 

Sorry about the life story, Cheers.

 

[porschemad911]

G'day Morrie,

 

There's a few grains that seem to find their way into a lot of recipes I see online and around the place. One is Carapils and the other is wheat malt, with both inclusions targeting added body, mouthfeel and a better head (Lusty's explanation was typed faster and is better), one due to a more dextrinous wort and another due to more protein in the wort.

 

I've used both of these tactics in a few recipes and while it did seem to work (without a scientific comparison), I've now stopped, preferring to keep my recipes simple.

 

If I want a more dextrinous wort, I aim for a higher mash temperature than normal instead of adding Carapils. Actually I still have 200g Carapils sitting in my inventory, but I'm not sure what I'll do with it.

 

I also no longer add wheat unless it fits in the style, mainly because I believe that interaction with the yeast will produce subtly different flavours as compared to barley. Of course this will vary by yeast strain, but as an extreme example compare a hefeweizen (~ 50/50 wheat/barley malt) to a dampfbier (100% barley malt) fermented with the same yeast strain. I like using it in Weissbiers and Saisons, but not so much in American or English style ales.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Gigantor]

G'day Morrie,

 

Yep, been using it for some time in my concentrate and extract recipes. Adds good body and some head retention to the brew. Tend to use around 500grams in a 30mins steep. As previously mentioned, it doesn't really add any major flavour or colour.

 

I generally use CaraPils with other grains and then add this to the brew to enhance flavour etc. I also like Shepherds Delight, CaraMunich3, Vienna, and Caramel & Choc Rye.

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[Otto Von Blotto]

I use it in some recipes but not all of them. My red ale is one that always contains it, but I don't use it in lagers or pale ales as I do prefer them on the thinner side (not macrosuperdryrubbish extremes though). Never seem to have any issues with head retention anyway, and I manipulate the mash temp to affect the body of the beer, so it's largely of little use in AG for me at least.

 

Works well in kit and extract based brewing to add a bit of body and head retention capabilities though.

[Morrie]

Really appreciate everyone's views and experience here. I'm doing all grain and mash at 67ºC and mash out at 76ºC. When I was doing Coopers kits I had far better beer foam and was surprised that I'm not achieving the same result with AG. My beer foam is not totally unsatisfactory but I would prefer better. I thought that carapils maybe worth giving a go. The beer styles I'm doing are APA and ESB so I'm not sure if I should mash at higher temps or be using carapils in these styles. Maybe using carapils or mashing higher in a Timothy Taylors Landlord knock off will take away the somewhat crispy/thinner nature of this ale? The thing is can I still attain the crispy/thinner style with good beer foam?

 

Another malt question please. Anyone using acidulated malt and if so what percentage do you run?

[Otto Von Blotto]

You could either use Carapils or you could try mashing at 63C for 30-40 minutes then ramping it for a 15-20 minute rest at 71//72C. My pilsners are done similarly to this and always have really good head retention while still being light bodied and refreshing, as well as still having decent malt flavour.

[ChristinaS1]

Anyone using acidulated malt and if so what percentage do you run?

 

Hi Morrie. I am not an all grain brewer but my understanding is that if you are using it to lower the pH of your mash, that you use around 2%. It is not routinely necessary. It depends on the grain bill and your water. It is probably not needed in recipes with a lot of roasted malts, more likely to be necessary with light coloured and/or soft water styles.

 

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

 

Cheers!

 

Christina.

[Morrie]

Thanks Christina - 2% gives me about 100grams in my grain bill. I was thinking somewhere in the range of 50 to 100 grams.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I use acid malt in my pilsners and pale beers at about 1-2% of the grist, however this isn't based on any measurements, it was more just an experimental thing. Seems to improve my efficiency though.

 

Best practice however would be to measure the actual mash pH level and adjust as necessary, you may need 2%, you may need 5%, you may not need any at all. There is no "standard" amount that works for all beers. Dark beers wouldn't need much if any because the dark malts lower the pH of the mash as well.

[Marty_G]

Thinking of steeping some carapils for a 3.5% ABV rice lager I am going to make. Will be made with a Lager can just wondering what weight of carapils would be about right. I was considering 200g steeped either cold over night or at around 60⁰ for 30 minutes.  Some advice on the carapils weight would be much appreciated.   

 

the recipe:

1.7kg Can Lager

200g Carapils

500g Rice syrup

100g dry Malt

W34/70 @10⁰ 

21 litre expected ABV 3.6%

may through some Saaz in as well maybe a 25g x 20min hop tea

 

[Norris!]

When I use them I toss in around that or 250g. I don't generally go over 300g or 5% of the grain bill.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

1 hour ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Thinking of steeping some carapils for a 3.5% ABV rice lager I am going to make. Will be made with a Lager can just wondering what weight of carapils would be about right. I was considering 200g steeped either cold over night or at around 60⁰ for 30 minutes.  Some advice on the carapils weight would be much appreciated.   

 

the recipe:

1.7kg Can Lager

200g Carapils

500g Rice syrup

100g dry Malt

W34/70 @10⁰ 

21 litre expected ABV 3.6%

may through some Saaz in as well maybe a 25g x 20min hop tea

 

I used to use 100gm in mine. But gave it up for a straight 75/25 pilsner and rice grist. I like it dryer anyways. The saaz hop tea will improve it. Lager kit only will be bland even for an asian lager.

[Beerlust]

In my time home brewing & discussing this dextrin grain it has thrown up a wide range of people that like it & as many that don't or have been a little disappointed in it.

Briess claim a rather unique process to create it as a body giving grain. Its main appeal to brewers is its the lowest EBC grain available that will add body to a beer above a base malt grain.

When you take the time to look at the colour charts for grains & their fermentability percentage, the darker the grain gets, the lower it's fermentability, thus leaving more unfermentable material (body) behind in the beer. When looking at Carapils, it is the closest to a base malt grain that have high fermentability. So if wanting to increase body & mouthfeel using Carapils given its higher fermentability percentage, you'd need to use more of it in place of the base malt grain to create a noticeable amount of body in the final beer without darkening the light coloured beer negatively.

In recent times I've been using 300gms or so where I might use 200-250gms with other lighter malted grains, but admit I'm still trying to find a perfect weight & balance for it. Weyermann's CaraHell has been my goto grain for lighter beers in recent years as 200gms seems to work well without increasing EBC noticeably or affecting the malt character I'm aiming for.

Just my 20 cents,

Lusty.

[BlackSands]

My experience with carapils was the same as this:

Carapils added to the beer on the right!    Brulosophy have investigated this a few times, and found it generally had no or even a slightly negative impact on foam.   I stopped using it.

I don't generally find I need anything to aid with head formation/retention anyway, perhaps it's the water here...dunno, but it's rarely an issue.  I do usually use Gladfield toffee malt though in my golden ales. It's EBC=10 so it's pretty light (and half that of carahell) and I would suggest this might be a worthy sub for carapils/carafoam etc. 

Effect of carahell @10%: 

 

On 9/17/2016 at 1:16 AM, Morrie said:

Anyone using acidulated malt and if so what percentage do you run?

 I've been using it recently in a few batches for pH adjustment.  While Beersmith allows you to calculate the amount required to achieve target pH I've just been using a 'rule of thumb' amount of 200g on each occasion.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by BlackSands

[Marty_G]

12 hours ago, Greeny1525229549 said:

The saaz hop tea will improve it. Lager kit only will be bland even for an asian lager.

It is pretty much  the Beer Lao clone recipe that you gave me a year ago. Just substituted the 100g melanoidin for extra carapils and dropped the dry malt to reduce the ABV.  Now might use 100g pilsener and 100g carapils.  

[Marty_G]

1 hour ago, BlackSands said:

Carapils added to the beer on the right!    Brulosophy have investigated this a few times, and found it generally had no or even a slightly negative impact on foam. 

Gee now I am confused. So the Carapils added nothing basically as it adds no flavour or colour.  So it is a waste of time, effort and cash. 

[BlackSands]

40 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Gee now I am confused. So the Carapils added nothing basically as it adds no flavour or colour.  So it is a waste of time, effort and cash. 

That certainly could be the conclusion based on the brulosophy results.  I'm not aware of anyone who else aside from them who have done a side-by-side and as with many things in brewing split-batch A/B comparisons are the only way you can be really sure. 

Anecdotally I certainly didn't notice any obvious benefit so decided not to bother with it any longer.  At the time I was brewing partial mash beers where I had quite a limited capacity for mashed grains so 200g was valuable grain real estate that I'd rather allocate to something else where I could actually see/taste some obvious benefit.   

Edited November 27, 2019 by BlackSands

[Marty_G]

6 minutes ago, BlackSands said:

I could actually see/taste some obvious benefit.   

Well I my have to go back to my original plan of Crystal Malt or maybe 200g of Pilsener. 

[BlackSands]

9 minutes ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Well I my have to go back to my original plan of Crystal Malt or maybe 200g of Pilsener. 

Why not look for some carahell of Gladfield toffee?  200g of either of those will have minimal impact on colour and may well give you better head performance.  Pilsner malt will need to be mashed... not much different to steeping but you just need to make sure you can hold the temp in the mid 60's for the duration. 

[Hairy]

As suggested many times above, Carapils is mostly used to add body to a beer. It is particularly useful for commercial breweries that cannot change the temperature of their mash tuns to create less fermentable wort. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Hairy

[ChristinaS1]

21 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

Gee now I am confused. So the Carapils added nothing basically as it adds no flavour or colour.  So it is a waste of time, effort and cash. 

Well maybe not entirely useless. I read in "The New IPA" by Scott Janish that using large percentages of Carapils (he used it for 50% of the grist) might help with flavour stability in NEIPAs because of its higher levels of LTP1 protein. That is the same protein that is supposed to help with head retention; it has antioxidant properties as well. This explains why beer with high amounts of malted wheat are less stable than ones with only barely. Carapils has more LTP1 than malted barley, which has more than malted wheat. So if I understand correctly, if you use both Carapils and malted wheat in the grist, they may cancel each other out in terms the amount of LTP1 that makes it into the kettle. If using Carapils, skip malted wheat. 

Cheers,

Christina.