YEASTS: A homebrewer's guide to strains one must try and probably should avoid.

[ignition.]

Hi all,

 

I searched the net and couldn't find a thread of this ilk.

 

If I'm performing an extract brew, the first thing I do is throw the free yeast into the bin. My most common brews are ales so I commonly substitute it with Fermentis US-05 (Brew Cellars / Morgan's American Ale yeast). However, I like many am a creature of habit and now that I found a quality yeast, rarely will I explore other possibilities.

 

So I'm curious, what are certain yeast strains a self-confessed "brewmaster" must try and probably best avoid... before they die? ;p

 

Please list your top three to five must try and best avoid strains.

 

If you have performed any split batch experiments comparing two certain strains please highlight your results.

 

My favorites and must try strains are:

1. Fermentis US-05 (Brew Cellars / Morgan's American Ale yeast) for ales.

2. Wyeast 3068 (White Labs WLP300) for wheat beers.

 

To date I don't have any MUST avoid strains. I have brewed a couple lagers using the Fermentis 34/70 strain. It was ok... but I think based on the aging time I'll just avoid lagers in future.

 

I also have the Danstar Nottingham ready to go for my first ever double stout so I'm looking forward to trialing it.

[Mark D Pirate]

Throwing the kit Coopers yeast in the bin ?

Providing of course it's within date and well handled the kit yeast is fine , with a high OG or different preference for flavours i can understand being wary of it .

I put Nottingham and kit yeast side by side for an almost Smurtos Golden ale a while back

1 X Nottingham

2x kit yeast

built up as starters of a litre each from memory

Frankly both came out delicious !

 

Also contrary to your experience i had a few batches i tipped using the Morgans american ale yeast .

have you tried the real one ?

 

My current top 3 are

Nottingham for malty ales , ferments at cooler temps and flocs very well as a bonus

US-05 for hop forward ,very clean ales

Coopers commercial ale yeast for where it needs some esters ( re cultured from long necks )

in fact i'm drinking a sparkling ale clone using it right now and it's not quite like the real deal but still a tasty beer .

 

my shitlist so far has only BRY-97 and morgans american ale on it

[CaffeinatedSentryGnome]

The only yeast to avoid is the random wild yeast.

 

As for the rest knowing what the yeast does, when to use it and how to use it would be more useful information than a yep/nup list.

[Otto Von Blotto]

My top 3 at the moment are (in no particular order):

 

US-05 for American ales and some dark beers (but planning on trying other American ale strains)

Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire ale for my English ales and,

Wyeast 2001 for my Bo pilsners, but I use it for other lagers too.

 

I don't really have any that I'd avoid like the plague though. S-04 is a bit of a PITA but it can produce lovely beers.

 

I hate wheat beers too so I don't think I'll be trying any of those strains either

 

Even if you don't use the kit yeast, don't throw it in the bin either. Keep it in the fridge, you never know when you might need some in case of a stalled fermentation, or you can throw it into a hop boil to act as a nutrient for the actual yeast being used to ferment the batch.

 

[ChristinaS1]

I use the Coopers dry yeast quite often, and quite like the Coopers ale/lager blended yeast. It used to come with a bunch of kits but since the Thomas Coopers line has been revamped it now only comes with the APA and Mexican Cervesa kits.

 

The ale/lager blend makes a nice, lager-ish brew when fermented at 18C, but 7gm --which is 3.5gm each of ale and lager yeast-- is not enough. I used to use 2 packets, rehydrated, but now that they are less common I sometimes only have one on hand, in which case I make a starter with it the night before....I use the APA kit as a base for a lot of my recipes.

 

Recently I've been making starters with the Coopers dry ale (kit) yeast as well, since 7gm of yeast isn't enough for the 1.3kg LME and specialty grains that I usually add. IME it is a very reliable yeast, and easy to work with.

 

I have only used S-04 a few times. In spite of its reputation for stalling before hitting FG, I have had no problems with it.

 

I find US-05 inconsistent; sometimes it is great and sometimes I get phenolic off-flavours with it. There is a whole thread about phenolic off-flavours with US-05, if you are interested.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

 

 

[ignition.]

Throwing the kit Coopers yeast in the bin ?

Providing of course it's within date and well handled the kit yeast is fine ' date=' with a high OG or different preference for flavours i can understand being wary of it .

I put Nottingham and kit yeast side by side for an almost Smurtos Golden ale a while back

1 X Nottingham

2x kit yeast

built up as starters of a litre each from memory

Frankly both came out delicious !

 

Also contrary to your experience i had a few batches i tipped using the Morgans american ale yeast .

have you tried the real one ?

 

My current top 3 are

Nottingham for malty ales , ferments at cooler temps and flocs very well as a bonus

US-05 for hop forward ,very clean ales

Coopers commercial ale yeast for where it needs some esters ( re cultured from long necks )

in fact i'm drinking a sparkling ale clone using it right now and it's not quite like the real deal but still a tasty beer .

 

my shitlist so far has only BRY-97 and morgans american ale on it [/quote']

 

Couldn't agree more regarding Nottingham and US-05.

 

My stout came out wonderfully malty using the Nottingham. I was so impressed I washed the yeast cake and threw another batch of wort on top of it (A british ale hopped with EKG and Fuggle) which is currently fermenting.

 

As for the Morgans American Ale yeast I'm a little suprised by your results. I was informed and certainly under the impression by its characteristics that Morgan's purchases the 1.5 kg blocks from Fermentis (as would any brewery that uses the strain, e.g. Mountain Goat) and portions it with additional nutrient into 15 g sachets. I have used the original Fermentis Safale US-05 (11.5 g sachet) and couldn't tell the difference.

[ignition.]

My top 3 at the moment are (in no particular order):

 

US-05 for American ales and some dark beers (but planning on trying other American ale strains)

Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire ale for my English ales and' date='

Wyeast 2001 for my Bo pilsners, but I use it for other lagers too.

 

I don't really have any that I'd avoid like the plague though. S-04 is a bit of a PITA but it can produce lovely beers.

 

I hate wheat beers too so I don't think I'll be trying any of those strains either [img']lol[/img]

 

Even if you don't use the kit yeast, don't throw it in the bin either. Keep it in the fridge, you never know when you might need some in case of a stalled fermentation, or you can throw it into a hop boil to act as a nutrient for the actual yeast being used to ferment the batch.

 

 

The West Yorkshire ale sounds interesting, next time I'm in the local brew shop I'll keep an eye out for it. I presume like several English ale yeasts it drops like a rock, how does it respond to washing, reculturing and storage in the fridge?

 

P.S I aready have quite a build up of kit yeast in the fridge. I also once boiled a sachet for additional nutrient but didn't really notice much benefit. I'll probably reconsider it if I'm pitching into a highly dense wort or attempting something with a high ABV.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah I only boil them to get rid of them really, when I remember to. There are dry yeast packets still in the fridge from 3 or 4 years ago unopened.

 

I don't wash my yeast, but I do harvest and reuse it. Rather than using fermenter trub, I build yeast starters bigger than necessary and steal some of them into a jar. Jar and flask are both put in the fridge; the jar sits there until its next use, while the "beer" in the flask is decanted and the yeast pitched cold into the batch. There's a thread on it here.

 

I've found the 1469 to be really good so far. At first it had trouble dropping out but after a couple of re-uses it drops like a stone. Unlike other yeasts that drop like a stone though, it actually finishes fermenting properly first. It finishes a little drier than other English ale strains, but still retains a good amount of maltiness. Perfect for my tastes with ESBs and my red ale too.

[ICzed]

Brettanomyces.

[CaffeinatedSentryGnome]

Brettanomyces.

 

Avoid or try?

[Bolchy]

I love mangrove jacks workhorse. I made a 2l starter from 1 pack. $3.90 (from memory) on line. Then pitched it into 55 litres of extract 1.058 wort i made up. Split over 2 fermenters.@18°c. Within 4 hours it was going like a rocket. After 2 days it was down it 1.014. I find i never have any issues like people describe they can have from us05. It drops nice and clean. If not particularly quickly. The cooler you use it the cleaner the flavours. It can go as low as about 12-13° to make a pseudo lager.... or up about 28 for a fruity ale. Thats my goto. However i believe its discontinued so the 3 packs i have left will be getting used up using ottos method of starter harvesting.

[Burton Snatch]

I'm really unsure if I should get some Safale US-04 or US-05.

Most of my brews will be stouts, ales and bitters.

 

[Beerlust]

Hi Burton Snatch.

I'm really unsure if I should get some Safale US-04 or US-05.

Most of my brews will be stouts' date=' ales and bitters.

[/quote']

The British styles of beer are more suited to "S-04" rather than US-05. S-04 generally attenuates a little less than US-05 hence leaving a little more body in the beer that suits stouts, EB's & traditional British style ales.

 

If using the S-04, it's been my better experience to ferment those brews around 20°C rather than the 18°C that I most often use for US-05.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[jeremy-o]

S-04 and W34/70 are both great yeasts, but I've had diacetyl hold-ups with both. Especially with S-04, patience is key. It can produce a beautiful, clean ale, even below 18c, but give it time in the bottle for extra conditioning or it'll be disappointing. As such it's probably not the best one for hop-forward / dry-hopped beers.

 

The other yeast I really like is the Cooper's kit lager yeast. I'd be surprised if it wasn't actually some kind of hybrid because I've had good results everywhere from 8c to 18c. It's quick to bottle carb as well. Just a great yeast and I recommend keeping a culture of it from a sachet.

 

I haven't had any really bad experiences, but I'll echo what CaffeinatedSentryGnome said, which is that it's less about good and bad yeasts and more about getting to know them.

[BlackSands]

I use the Coopers dry yeast quite often' date=' and quite like the Coopers ale/lager blended yeast...

 

...Recently I've been making starters with the Coopers dry ale (kit) yeast as well, since 7gm of yeast isn't enough for the 1.3kg LME and specialty grains that I usually add. IME it is a very reliable yeast, and easy to work with.[/quote']

 

I agree re: coopers kit yeast. It's never let me down. Even when I was brewing kit n kilo with just one 7g packet. Scattered among the numerous homebrew forums there is frequent advice that says you should discard the kit yeast and use something better, but I find it's consistent, reliable and always produces a good beer. It's also quite vigorous with a very wide temperature latitude which I think makes it a good choice for those of us with rather crude means of controlling fermentation temperatures.

 

I have only used S-04 a few times. In spite of its reputation for stalling before hitting FG, I have had no problems with it.

I've used it twice, both brews are very nice and are currently being consumed.

 

I find US-05 inconsistent; sometimes it is great and sometimes I get phenolic off-flavours with it. There is a whole thread about phenolic off-flavours with US-05, if you are interested.

As you know, I've had issues too... and though I'm not yet convinced it's the yeast that's necessarily to blame, of the problematic brews, all have been fermented with US-05.

 

I plan to try out Mangrove Jacks yeasts next. I think the M36 "Liberty Bell" might be a good first choice for my Pale Ales, Bitters etc. They're 10g packs and though MJ insist this is enough for sub 1.050 beers I'm thinking it's probably borderline!

 

 

[Dirtynidge]

I use the Coopers dry yeast quite often' date=' and quite like the Coopers ale/lager blended yeast...

 

...Recently I've been making starters with the Coopers dry ale (kit) yeast as well, since 7gm of yeast isn't enough for the 1.3kg LME and specialty grains that I usually add. IME it is a very reliable yeast, and easy to work with.[/quote']

 

I agree re: coopers kit yeast. It's never let me down. Even when I was brewing kit n kilo with just one 7g packet. Scattered among the numerous homebrew forums there is frequent advice that says you should discard the kit yeast and use something better, but I find it's consistent, reliable and always produces a good beer. It's also quite vigorous with a very wide temperature latitude which I think makes it a good choice for those of us with rather crude means of controlling fermentation temperatures.

 

I have only used S-04 a few times. In spite of its reputation for stalling before hitting FG, I have had no problems with it.

I've used it twice, both brews are very nice and are currently being consumed.

 

I find US-05 inconsistent; sometimes it is great and sometimes I get phenolic off-flavours with it. There is a whole thread about phenolic off-flavours with US-05, if you are interested.

As you know, I've had issues too... and though I'm not yet convinced it's the yeast that's necessarily to blame, of the problematic brews, all have been fermented with US-05.

 

I plan to try out Mangrove Jacks yeasts next. I think the M36 "Liberty Bell" might be a good first choice for my Pale Ales, Bitters etc. They're 10g packs and though MJ insist this is enough for sub 1.050 beers I'm thinking it's probably borderline!

 

 

Sorry to pull up an old thread but has anyone given MJ's M36 'Liberty Bell' a try in a Pale or IPA? I'm keen to give it a go but after any opinions.

[joolbag]

Mate I can tell you in three weeks! I put a Timothy Taylor landlord clone down on Saturday night. I built this packet of yeast up in a starter, 700mL.

 

Thick fluffy creamy white krausen by Sunday morning, 8 hours after pitching. Then bizarrely, at about 30 hrs after pitching the krausen dropped! I haven't seen it drop this quick ever before. Not too worried, will test SG in a few days to ensure it is still chugging away.

 

Am fermenting at a steady 20C in my brew fridge.

 

I am a fan of the other MJ yeasts I have tried. M10 is truly a Workhorse

M44 was good for my American Pale Ale Citra beer. m76 Bavarian Lager is true to form. I think I prefer the flavour of non-German yeasts! Will try the Bohemian Lager next winter.

[Otto Von Blotto]

The yeast used in Pilsner Urquell was originally smuggled into Plzen from Germany, so technically speaking it's actually a German lager strain too. Not sure what strain the Mangrove Jacks Bohemian one is though.

[joolbag]

Interesting story! Didn't know that Kelsey. I'll be doing a few lagers over winter, I do enjoy brewing and drinking them. Will be trying a few recipes with some different yeasts come May I think

[Otto Von Blotto]

One reason I love having a brew fridge is being able to brew lagers all year round.

[joolbag]

me too, but I don't have the supply atm to tie up my brew fridge for 4 weeks with a lager! I learnt my ferment/cold crash schedule for you - cool pitch, cool ferment, D-rest, cold crash 2 weeks.

 

A shame that my LCPA clone is phenolic, otherwise I'd be well stocked. And the Helga's Cool Kolsch is drinkable but nothing special. I won't use enhancers anymore, all malt extract or all grain for me now.

 

If this current American pale ale and Timmy Taylor Landlord ale turn out well, then I'll be back in business and may put down a lager or two. Just finished my last bottle of pilsner last night, so it's ales only for the near future. The SNPA will be sampled on Sunday

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, running low on stocks makes lagers a bit of a PITA to wait for. I have 3 kegs on tap but two of them are probably less than half full, while the third I've only had a pint out of. There is a 10L keg ready to go in when one of these other two runs out too, but other than that I have no beer stocks. Being on 4 weeks holidays has put a bit of a dent in the stocks, although I'm going back to work on Monday so consumption will drop again.

 

I do have a lager in the FV currently that was pitched on Tuesday, but it's only a XXXX rip off so I can probably get away with a shorter lagering time on that one. There will be approx. 7 litres of this bottled, before kegging the other 19L. After that I have an English bitter going in, and then another APA, so in around about 7-8 weeks time I'll have 3 full kegs again. I don't think the current stocks will last that long even with going back to work. I guess I'll be buying some beer for a short while, as I prefer to put 3 full kegs in the kegerator at the same time. That way I have 57 litres of beer on tap (or 67 with the new 10L keg) while I brew, ferment and keg the next three batches. It usually lasts that long.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Beerlust]

Hi joolbag.

me too' date=' but I don't have the supply atm to tie up my brew fridge for 4 weeks with a lager! I learnt my ferment/cold crash schedule for you - cool pitch, cool ferment, D-rest, cold crash 2 weeks.[/quote']

Those time-frames are unnecessary unless you wish to adhere to the German laws of commercial brewing. The well known "Reinheitsgebot" purity law ideology &/or the 1993 revised "Vorläufiges Biergesetz" (Provisional Beer Law) that is based on the Reinheitsgebot principles that only allow the use of "water, malted barley, hops and yeast be used for any bottom-fermented beer brewed in Germany".

 

These principles are based on creating integrity & honesty in the beer you are buying & drinking, & knowing NO outside influences have been added bar those mentioned to create the flavours of the beer.

 

As homebrewers we don't need to adhere to this philosophy of producing lager beer. There are modern products (particularly finings) that can help us speed up the production of clear lager beer. German brewing laws prohibit their use, thus they have to cold condition their lager beers for longer periods to produce the same clarity as we can with the use of finings in far less time.

 

If you pitch a solid volume of lager yeast at recommended levels using starters etc. & ferment your lagers in the 12-15°C zone you will find a typical OG lager brew will ferment out & plateau to a predicted & stable FG easily inside 2 weeks in most cases. The first 5 days after a lager begins actively fermenting is said to impart it's flavour, so bringing the ferment temp up to D-rest zones after that point will do it no harm at all & only aid in finishing off the ferment quicker.

 

Once FG is reached, begin your cold crash & add your finings as directed from there. With the aid of the finings the clearing of the beer will take well under a week. This process should shave 1 to 1½ weeks off your current lager schedule = 2½ to 3 weeks total.

 

Call it "Beerlustosophy" if you like.

 

In all honesty it's nothing new. Our Australian megaswill breweries are following a similar regime for their lager fermentations. Note they don't quote adherence to the Reinheitsgebot purity law on their beer packaging.

 

If you don't believe me, try it for yourself.

 

I hope that helps, & apologies for the long post.

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Finings will help speed up the clearing of lagers but they won't help speed up the flavour improvement that only comes with time spent in cold storage. Even after a two week cold crash they are not at their best, although they are nice and they are drinkable. Another few weeks cold in the keg and they're bloody excellent. That is the main reason for the long lagering times, as pretty well all the commercial lagers are filtered nowadays anyway.

 

I agree on the fermentation times though. Mine are often at FG in 9-10 days.

 

BTW, Polyclar is actually permitted by the Reinheitsgebot. Because it doesn't end up in the finished beer it is classed as a processing agent rather than an additive.

[Beerlust]

Finings will help speed up the clearing of lagers but they won't help speed up the flavour improvement that only comes with time spent in cold storage. Even after a two week cold crash they are not at their best' date=' although they are nice and they are drinkable. Another few weeks cold in the keg and they're bloody excellent. That is the main reason for the long lagering times, as pretty well all the commercial lagers are filtered nowadays anyway.

 

I agree on the fermentation times though. Mine are often at FG in 9-10 days.[/quote']

+1 (though I don't feel the aging has to occur in cold storage necessarily)

 

Malt forward beers always benefit from some aging, differentiating them from deliberately hop forward beers.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.