Mark D Pirate Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Been wondering exactly how good the kit yeast is ? in my totally unscientific and statistically worthless test i'll try to find out 40 litres partial mash Smurtos BIAB 1 kg Pale ale grain 1 kg traditional ale grain 1 kg Vienna .5 kg caramunich 1.7 kg coopers draught kit 1.7 kg black rock wheat malt 15 g @ 60 mins Armarillo 5 g @ 50 mins Galaxy 15 g @ 40 mins Amarillo 10 g @ 20 mins Amarillo 10 g @ 20 mins Galaxy 4.4 % ABV bottle 34 IBU OG 1.043 FG 1.011 split between 2 FV as evenly as possible ( hot break included ) made a 1L starter of Notty in one and 1 L starter from 2 x kit ale yeast 36 hours before pitching @ 20 C to ferment @ 17-18 C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Sounds like a fair test. I look forward to your results. Thanks for doing it. Are you going to do like Brulospher and round up a bunch of people blinded to the variable, give them two of one type, one of the other, and see if they can pick out the one that is different? Then get them to pick which they prefer? That would be really cool. Cheers! -Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Fair enough test but leave the hot break out. It's shitty practice to ferment on it. Unless of course you've already tipped it in there in which case it can't be removed But just for future reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 Until I weld a tap into my pot keeping hot break out of the FV will be difficult . As far as taste testing the difference I doubt I'll have a hard time finding volunteers but only pitched yeast very early this morning so expect results in a month or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 No need for welding anything, just drill a hole and fit a 3 piece ball valve into it. That's what I've got on my urn although the hole was already there from the original tap that I replaced with the ball valve, but it's easy as, no welding and no leaks if done properly. A sanitised stocking (or material like it) over the FV might help keep some of the break out in the meantime though. I used one over the end of the transfer hose into the bottling bucket on the batch that had a heap in it and it kept it out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 About 16 hours since i pitched the yeast starters and both are showing creamy white Krausen about 25 mm thick ,not bad considering temp is down to 16 C . I can't see myself ever going back to dry pitching and if you're re-hydrating then you may as well take it 1 step further and make a starter a few days before hand to save yet another job on brewday and potential infections before the yeast become the dominant organism . the only other experience i have with such rapid starting is when pitching onto a washed off Notty yeast cake i split in half and it had 100 mm + in same time frame on a 1.068 OG Stout which i'm having a sneaky early taste of right now and bloody jebuss it's good ! P.S. Take that BRY-97 ....you'll never get back into my brew room you laggy , stalling bugger and to top it off you have a stupid name *disclaimer * I've not yet used liquid yeast to compare lag times nor have i made a BRY-97 starter since i would rather hit myself in the face with a hammer , Morgans "american ale " 15 g sachets are the only yeast i loath more than thee ( 4 horrible brews which i mostly used to clean drains ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 No need for welding anything' date=' just drill a hole and fit a 3 piece ball valve into it. That's what I've got on my urn although the hole was already there from the original tap that I replaced with the ball valve, but it's easy as, no welding and no leaks if done properly. [/quote'] i was wondering about that , how big a radius does your urn have ? i didnt think i'd be able to get a decent seal against a curved surface without welding , i considered using one of my many hammers to flatten off a section for a mounting boss and use a flange both sides with a decent tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Starters are great. I've recently taken to pitching them cold into warm wort with great effect. Average about 12-14 hours lag time compared to 20-24 hours when I let them warm up for hours first. Pitching an active starter would reduce it too, but it doesn't suit my methods. I'm not sure of the radius of the urn, will have to check it out. I'd guess about 200mm though. I have a big rubber O ring type thing on the inside of the urn and all threads are wrapped in thread tape. It does slightly warp the urn wall when I tighten the nuts up to keep it in place so that probably helps keep it leak free too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 About 16 hours since i pitched the yeast starters and both are showing creamy white Krausen about 25 mm thick ' date='not bad considering temp is down to 16 C . I can't see myself ever going back to dry pitching and if you're re-hydrating then you may as well take it 1 step further and make a starter a few days before hand to save yet another job on brewday and potential infections before the yeast become the dominant organism . the only other experience i have with such rapid starting is when pitching onto a washed off Notty yeast cake i split in half and it had 100 mm + in same time frame on a 1.068 OG Stout which i'm having a sneaky early taste of right now and bloody jebuss it's good ! P.S. Take that BRY-97 ....you'll never get back into my brew room you laggy , stalling bugger and to top it off you have a stupid name [img']tongue[/img] *disclaimer * I've not yet used liquid yeast to compare lag times nor have i made a BRY-97 starter since i would rather hit myself in the face with a hammer , Morgans "american ale " 15 g sachets are the only yeast i loath more than thee ( 4 horrible brews which i mostly used to clean drains ) What's with the Morgans American Ale? My LHBS threw a pack in with my recent purchase of Coopers Brew A IPA when I asked for some ale yeast; I already had some US 05 starter I'd previously made so I used that instead & I just popped it in the fridge. I was going to use the American Ale yeast for a future brew, as 15g is a decent quantity. If the quantity is to make up for lack of quality, I'll probably throw it out, especially as the LHBS didn't charge me for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Or use it in a hop boil as a sort of nutrient for the yeast in the main batch. I have some old dry yeast packets in the fridge that I keep forgetting to do this with on brew days. Better than simply throwing it out anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeblebrox Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Well yeah, that's what I'd probably do, as I've done that before with good results. Just curious what the story is with American Ale yeast though? I've not heard anything bad about it before so I'd like to hear if anyone else has had problems with it before I write it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I'd use it on a cheap brew first. Something that's not going to break the bank if it fails. A simple kit & kilo would be the go for me first time around with a yeast I was unsure about. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 I brewed my then standard coopers APA can , 1 kg BE2 with .5 kg LDM and a small steep of grain + hops (citra ) in general terms a simple and generally reliable recipe for novice brewers which I had done several times with drinkable beer . That particular LHBS is also a hydroponics supply store and the clerk told me it was US-05 so I treated it as such and fermented @18-19° and it was just bloody awful , astringent ,harsh and caused severe headaches so I blamed my methods ,nuked my FV in case of infection and tried again , same result even though my techniques were sound . After getting further advice I was told it might be the old homebrew "twang " and brewing with extract would reduce this so I did an extract brew using coopers CCA yeast with great results , repeated with Morgans yeast and tipped it rather than bottle it .....picking a common theme here ? The very last time I used it was for a TC bootmaker pale repitch after the supplied yeast failed to start after 72 hours so as a hail Mary I used it , it fermented and I had so other beer in house so choked it down . Even BRY works better than this rubbish as when it does start it actually works I'm happy to be proved wrong so if anyone has a positive experience with it then it's possible I just didn't treat it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Day 4 looks like both have hit FG of 1.011 exactly as predicted but have allowed temp to rise to 19 C to be certain , both still show almost identical krausen The Notty brewed sample is much clearer , Coopers yeast has always stayed cloudy longer in my experience with it taste wise both are still very yeasty not surprisingly and now that the sweetness has dropped off i can taste tannin/grain husk so my mash temp may have risen too high at mash out or the hotbreak is to blame so fingers crossed that fades out . Low levels of Diacetyl ,more in the Coopers kit yeast but not a problem for this style . Kinda surprised that both yeasts have behaved almost identically , same lag time ,same rate of ferment ,same SG /Attenuation and so far very similar tastes now to mostly ignore it for a week before a dry hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Day 4 looks like both have hit FG of 1.011 exactly as predicted but have allowed temp to rise to 19 C to be certain ' date=' both still show almost identical krausen The Notty brewed sample is much clearer , Coopers yeast has always stayed cloudy longer in my experience with it taste wise both are still very yeasty not surprisingly and now that the sweetness has dropped off i can taste tannin/grain husk so my mash temp may have risen too high at mash out or the hotbreak is to blame so fingers crossed that fades out . Low levels of Diacetyl ,more in the Coopers kit yeast but not a problem for this style . Kinda surprised that both yeasts have behaved almost identically , same lag time ,same rate of ferment ,same SG /Attenuation and so far very similar tastes now to mostly ignore it for a week before a dry hop [/quote'] Thanks for the update Markoman. I will be very curious which one you and your tasting panel prefer. My money is on Coopers. I think Nottingham strips away flavour. YMMV. If Coopers wins, I think you should plan round two: Coopers vs US-05. Cheers! -Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Nottingham is a great yeast! Hey man deleted my post after some beer babble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kradmelder Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Why don't you stick us for a dop so we can decide for ourselves A 6 pack of 3 of each should do me fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Nottingham is a great yeast! That is just your opinion Waylon. Just because I don't like Nottingham doesn't mean my opinion is crap. It is every bit as valid as yours. by the way heat belts don't melt fermenters if used as properly. You use a thermo-controller with yours' date=' which is great, and very safe, but most people will just plug it in, as I did, which is the "proper" way BTW. There isn't too much you can do to screw that up. [img']tongue[/img] There are several types on the market, made by different manufacturers. Some may be safer than others....Mine may have malfunctioned. As I mentioned, I got that brew belt second-hand....But it happened as I reported it, make of it what you will....In any case bringing that up in an unrelated thread is a bit of a low blow Waylon. Its a shame shame certain people need to think they bat above there average on this forum... Apologies to Markoman for the interruption in your thread. Let's get back to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Nottingham is a great yeast! You keep miss informing people saying this crap! by the way heat belts don't melt fermenters if used as properly' date=' just like Nottingham dosnt strip beer from there hop and malt profile! its just the monkey behind the brew... Its a shame shame certain people need to think they bat above there average on this forum... [/quote']I've actually seen it mentioned a number of times over the years that Nottingham strips flavour from beers. Not in huge amounts though, it must be said. Your last sentence is interesting, given some stuff you've written on here in recent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Hey Marko good you started the Nottingham @ 16 mate...I think that's best temp for the yeast Both kit and Nottingham have always finished consistently within 5 days, Ive found Notty to have much lower visible activity Kruzan in comparison to the kit yeast! Ive only had a Nottingham yeast stall once when I made a huge gravity beer... As far as notty stripping flavour hmm... Maybe that's more an issue if fermented above its ideal 16 degrees... I did about 10 batches last year with nottingham in ranges 14-16 and it finished realy neutral, but I found a slight bready flavour in the beer not sure what that was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Why don't you stick us for a dop so we can decide for ourselves A 6 pack of 3 of each should do me fine If you're in Adelaide in a month then I may be able to help , I'm not sending beer to Sth. Africa unless I'm taking it with me :-) I will also confess to wanting the kit yeast to "win " since like all real Sth Aussies I'm pretty proud of Cooper's , the brewery is 5 kms from home but taste test will be double blind to try to remove my bias . I do quite like Notty , its colder fermentation temps suit what I can easily achieve in an Adelaide winter If I run this test again it'll be kit yeast Vs CCA :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 As far as notty stripping flavour hmm... Maybe that's more an issue if fermented above its ideal 16 degrees... I did about 10 batches last year with nottingham in ranges 14-16 and it finished realy neutral' date=' but I found a slight bready flavour in the beer not sure what that was![/quote'] Maybe temperature is a factor. With my old cooling system my fermentation temps usually were around 18-19C. Now that I have an STC-1000 and chest freezer maybe I should give it another try at 16C. Or maybe I will first wait for the results of Markoman's experiment. I am probably going to use Nottingham to ferment my hard apple cider this fall. Cider doesn't have any malt flavour to get stripped away. In my small test batch of cider made thus far I have been using white wine yeast, and I am not thrilled with the results. I want to try an ale yeast and Nottingham is highly recommended by many for that purpose. Cheers! -Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 OK , probs time to really put my beer where my mouth is . Is there many here in Radelaide willing to try both beers and give a no holds barred blind assessment ? Supplies are limited since much has already been enjoyed , best i have brewed so far but the bar was set pretty low. still so much to learn , only way is up right ? If you are local, willing and know beer then put your hand up ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beers Gone Wild Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 From my experiments I found the Nottingham brings me a cleaner beer in both clarity and taste. I use it all the time. Looking forward to end result of your experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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