MikeC1525229119 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Hi All, I have been brewing Extract for around 1 year now and am looking to move into something a bit more challenging. I have been reading all the posts about All Grain and BIAB setups. Can someone let me know what I need to get started with All Grain? I do not want to spend a lot of $$$ and I have minimal space in my garage. Currently I have a brew fridge and both 30L and 15L FV BIAB looks like the best option to me however I am a newbie and want to ease into the AG brewing. Appreciate feedback from more experienced brewers out there :) Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 BIAB is probably the simplest option for getting into AG brewing. You can either do this with an electric urn, or a pot and gas burner set up. Or a smaller pot on the stove for small batches. If it was me I'd just go the bigger pot or urn straight up; you can always brew smaller batches in a big pot, but you can't brew bigger batches in a small one. The Crown urns usually go for between $250-$300, plus your grain bag, hop sock if you want one. And you're pretty much ready to go. A 3 piece ball valve is a useful addition as well. Not sure of the costs for the pot and burner set up though. I started with an urn in 2012 and am still using it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC1525229119 Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Thanks Otto, Can you send me a link as to where I can get the Urn from? Do you have a step by step process for brewing say an easy Pale Ale? What is the rough cost for an AG brew compared to Extract? What do you do for chilling the wort? Do you have an immersion chiller? Thanks for the info.. Always helpful :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Places like Craftbrewer or National Home Brew sell them. There are probably others too. I got mine from Craftbrewer. http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2936 They were cheaper when I got mine, but that was 3 and a half years ago. It's a pretty simple process, I'll give a rough overview of what I do (note: I have a grain mill too); Fill urn to desired level and begin heating water Mill grains Add grains to water once at desired temp and stir them in. Leave alone for 90 mins (mashing) Heat up to 78C for mash-out (probably not necessary, but habit) Remove grain bag and hang above urn to drain Once drained, remove bag to another bucket to collect any excess Start bringing to the boil, once boiling add hops at specified times After boil, switch off urn and let sit for 15 minutes before draining into a cube You'll have to work out your boil off rates, trub loss etc. as well. This only really comes from brewing a few batches, though. As for chilling, as above, it goes into a cube and sits there, it's called no-chilling but in reality it's slow chilling. I don't have any active chilling systems like an immersion chiller though, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Oh yeah, the cost. I find I can supply the entire fermentables for a batch for the same price as one tin of LME. Most of my batches cost around $20ish, however I don't factor the yeast in because I re-use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I think the argument in favour of trying a small batch that you could brew on the stovetop to fit in your 15L fermenter is that the investment is so low. You could easily get all you need in terms of equipment for under $50 - a Big W / K-Mart stockpot (I'd advise 20L - mine's 15 but it's a tight job), a candy thermometer and a brew bag. That's my current inventory beyond a basic extract kit, and while I can't say I'm not coveting the crown urn setups around here, these first few brews frankly aren't at the quality that I'd want two cases of it yet anyway. It'd be an extra burden. When you've got methods and recipes established that you're really happy with, seek to upgrade. But for me this route's perfect just because the stakes are low and the wobbly first days aren't tied to a substantial investment. At least not a substantial monetary investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC1525229119 Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Hey Jeremy, That sounds like a good idea. I think my wife would also agree :) Have you got any recipes for 15L? I have the Coopers Craft FV so would this be suitable? I think I might try this method before going down the Urn path. Good to have options. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I use the Coopers craft fermenter. With the stovetop method I aim to get 11 - 12L of wort in there. Sometimes I end up with more but I tend to split the last trubby bit off to the side and use it to experiment. I'm not sure I'm ready to recommend one of my own recipes yet But it's very easy to scale down any recipe you can find. Just work out the grains and hops by weight as a percentage and adjust. If you need a hand with one let me know, but there are also plenty of calculators etc. online you can use to design / rework recipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC1525229119 Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 Cool. I just found Brewers Friend website and it has loads of recipes for 10+L batches. Headed to BigW this week I think and to my LHBS shop to get some grains :) That means I need to get myself a mill as well. Looking forward to having AG beer and hopefully getting some good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Your LHBS can probably mill them for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I realy respect Jeremys advice, But personly I cant see the point in going to the trouble for such a small batch... Ive brewed small extract and grain batches and continue to taste other vary experienced brewers partial mash brews...they are amazing good! It takes me 2&1/2 hours to make a partial mash brew... It takes me 6 hours for a full mash all grain... that includes step mashes My advise would be,,,,,buy a grain mill.. 2 roller or 3... I have a 3 and its ok never used a 2 or follow Kelsy's 25 liter brew with Crown urns technique, because yu will be cubing batches! Or go 3V 50 litre plus vessles and brew like a king! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The Millmaster mills are really good now that they've changed to fluted rollers instead of the old knurled ones. I actually have a hybrid, one of each roller, as I bought mine when they were doing the knurled version but after a while it wouldn't pull the grains through properly so they sent me out a free replacement fluted roller. Working the best it ever has. I imagine two fluted rollers would be just as good if not a little better. Having your own mill also allows you to buy grains in bulk which saves money over buying it per batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Yep, grab a $20 20 litre stock pot from Big W, a grain bag and a thermometer and give brew in a bag a go. It's a very cheap and easy way to try all grain brewing. To start off with you'll want to experiment and brew often to learn what ingredients taste like and how to design recipes to suit your tastes. Experimenting with smaller batches lets you learn faster. Once you know all grain is for you, you can scale up if you like. If you want to scale up of course! I'm happy with my 10.5 litre batch size, so have no intentions of brewing larger batches. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC1525229119 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Agree with John and Jeremy. I think small batches work better for me as I like to try different beers and get my brewing skills up. It would take me ages to get through 23L of beer and I do not have the bottles or room to store. I think I will start with the 20L pot setup and go from there. Anyone know if these pots from BigW will work on an induction cook top and will it be hard to regulate the temperature? Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talltwits Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Hi, Mike like yourself I am a newbie, but much more "newbier" than you! Only have three LME kit brews under my belt as I only began at the start of the year. Throughly enjoying it and looking to step it up a notch soon. On my priority is a brew fridge but working on that as we speak... Secondly I fancy doing AG...however know nothing about it. Probably because I'm so new to it all, and for financial reasons, like Mike I think brewing on a small scale would suit me just now. My brewing gear basically includes a 25L Coopers FV and....... oh well that's it actually. So before I go on to ask about specifics techniques for AG (as I know nothing). Would I just need a grain bag, mill, and a stockpot (ie large pot???) Hope I'm not repeating Mikes question but I wasn't sure. Thanks Oh and even though I have a 25L FV I'm assuming that I can make a 15L brew if I want? This all depends on how large my pot is to make the wort yes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Basically that's all you need yeah. I'd probably go for the biggest pot you can find, something around the 20L mark, as you need to account for the pre-boil volume and also provide space at the top to prevent boilovers. It may be of benefit to drill a hole in the pot near to the bottom and install a 3 piece SS ball valve as well, just to make it easier to drain into the fermenter. Obviously 10-15 litres isn't as big as the usual 23-25 litre batches but it's still a PITA to pick up and tip in without stirring up all the shit in the bottom that you don't want in the FV in the first place. Yeah you can make smaller sized batches in larger fermenters. I brewed a 12L batch in one of my 30 litre FVs once, was perfectly fine. And yes, your pot size will determine the size of batch you can make. Although, in saying that, you could make 10 or 15 litres of really high SG wort and dilute it with water in the FV to make a standard sized batch. I've never done this myself, though. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Yep' date=' grab a $20 20 litre stock pot from Big W, a grain bag and a thermometer and give brew in a bag a go. It's a very cheap and easy way to try all grain brewing. To start off with you'll want to experiment and brew often to learn what ingredients taste like and how to design recipes to suit your tastes. Experimenting with smaller batches lets you learn faster. Once you know all grain is for you, you can scale up if you like. If you want to scale up of course! I'm happy with my 10.5 litre batch size, so have no intentions of brewing larger batches. Cheers, John[/quote'] I have the Big W pot and still use it for sparge water. But back in my partial mash days, I also did some AG beers with it. I would make a high gravity beer and then dilute it in the fermenter prior to pitching the yeast. I would get about 15-16 litres of 5% ABV beer out of it. Just remember to make an adjustment for lower hop utilisation due to the high gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talltwits Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Cheers Kelsey! I'll try pick up a 20l stockpot then! Sounds ideal for what I'm thinking and as someone else says...there's not as much to lose if I start AG on smaller batches, seen as I'm still a newb! Just to be clear though as I've been watching some videos on YouTube. On the vids they have their kettle or pot where they boil water and then pour that water into a insulated tub of some sort, along with the grain and let it sit there for one hour at a constant temp - I take it I could just add the grain to the stockpot and let it sit there for the hour? After the hour they then transfer through a hose, the water from the first run into another (I'm assuming to get the wort away from the grain?) They then boil this and add in the hops etc. - how would I do this? Would I need a second pot? Again though I'm assuming I'd use the grain bag to simply remove the grain from my one and only pot before boiling with hops etc? On the vids I haven't seen anyone use a grain bag. Sorry for the blunt questions and lack of knowledge. However thank again for all the help! Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 G'day Kyle, There's a few steps ... none too difficult. Strike Water You would fill the pot with the whole volume of water needed for your brew and heat to strike temp (a few degrees above your desired mash temp). You'll need to allow for water to be lost by absorption into the grain and from boil-off and to trub at the end of the boil. Mash You would then turn off the heat and line the pot with your grain bag, pour in the grain and stir well until there's no lumps or anything. You would then pop the lid on and optionally wrap the pot with something to insulate while the mash is happening. Lauter After the mash you would pull the bag out and sit it somewhere to drain. I have a metal pasta drainer that fits on top of my pot, so I sit the bag on that. You might want to move the pot to the sink for this step as it can splash around a bit. If you want to squeeze the bag to get the wort out faster, go for it. Boil You then heat the pot to bring to the boil and add hops as per your recipe. You can use hop bags or some sort of filter if you like. Cool There's a few options here: Fish the hops out, pop the lid on the pot and leave it to cool down overnight (I've done this once or twice and it works fine) Siphon the wort into a sanitized HDPE jerry can or cube, seal up and leave it to cool down overnight (this is what I mostly do) Pop the lid on the pot, make up a big ice water bath in your laundry trough and sit the pot in there Use some sort of wort chiller, immersion, counterflow, plate etc Cleanup Dump the grains into the compost, rinse the bag well and hang to dry. After it has dried I shake off any bits that are left and put it through the washing machine. Ferment Once your wort has cooled, pour it into your sanitized fermenter and pitch the yeast. I like to pour through a strainer to catch some of the break and hop material. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 All grain batches under 19 litres are a waist of time! You can make a triple batch in the same time it takes to make a single 19 litre batch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talltwits Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Ideal John!!! That's exactly what I was looking for! Cheers for that! Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy-o Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 All grain batches under 19 litres are a waist of time! You can make a triple batch in the same time it takes to make a single 19 litre batch It's not so much about time on the day as it is about the low initial equipment demands and the simplicity of the processes. And for those of us who aren't kegging, the additional time and hassle of bottling is substantial. I probably drink beer three nights a week, and often only a couple. Even 23l of beer would sit in my shed for months. I'm sure it'd limit my progress as a brewer... Necessity is the mother of invention after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 All grain batches under 19 litres are a waist of time! You can make a triple batch in the same time it takes to make a single 19 litre batch Actually' date=' brewing smaller batches (and drinking less) may help your waist in time [img']wink[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Vary true Hairy, I would actualy think, For 9-23 litre brews! The Best setup would be to go ROBOBREW from kegking. $450 and your done! No sparge and off you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylon Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I like the Idea of brewing big batches for through the winter and not brewing in summer at all... 3 x19L kegs in one batch is a good investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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