Dirtynidge Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Has anyone else tried this beer? It is my current favourite and I would live to make something akin to it. The can tells me: Ale Malt Cara Malt Crystal Cascade & Mosaic in boil, plus dry hop IBU: 50 EST. CALORIES: 162 ABV: 5.4% COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION The ubiquitous Pale Ale. The workhorse of pretty much any modern brewery. The brief we gave ourselves for our flagship beer was that it should be able to be sent to any bar in San Diego and to stand proudly alongside the many great Pales produced in, and around, the west coast of the US. The schematic for a West Coast Pale Ale is bucket loads of big US hops, full malty backbone and a characterful yeast. That is what this Pale Ale is all about. Enjoy as fresh as possible. Beer pairing: Everything, all of the time. I have a generic Cascade and Mosaic PA extract recipe (with 200g crystal) but that only comes at just over half the IBUs of Pirate Life's version. Does anyone has any pointers for a place for a newbie to start an extract brew along these lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Hi dirtynidge. Yes I have tried this beer, & their Throwback IPA, that I just reckon is the 'bees knees' for a 3.5% ABV beer. They give you the basic info, but a lot is left for you to figure out for yourself. They are modern styled ales that are more heavily hopped toward the end of the boil. I haven't sat down & tried to reproduce an extract based brew of the Pale Ale, but I did put a considerable amount of time into reproducing a beer similar to their "Throwback IPA" & managed to produce something very good in that vein. If you are interested in how I approached that beer & others thoughts, perhaps check out the following thread... Mid-Strength Nirvana. I am a little disappointed the Sparkling Ale kit I used for the base of that beer is now bittered higher, & is unlikely to be suited anymore. I guess I'll just have to conjure up a base of my own now. I hope I was of some help. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Thanks Lusty, I have your Throwback IPA down as my brew after next (after a SMOTY for winter). I had read all your trials and tribulations in coming up with that recipe and the end result sounds awesome. A very informative read So TC sparking kit is no longer any good for this recipe? Any ideas what it could be replaced with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTIONThe ubiquitous Pale Ale. The workhorse of pretty much any modern brewery. The brief we gave ourselves for our flagship beer was that it should be able to be sent to any bar in San Diego and to stand proudly alongside the many great Pales produced in' date=' and around, the west coast of the US. The schematic for a West Coast Pale Ale is bucket loads of big US hops, full malty backbone and a characterful yeast. That is what this Pale Ale is all about. Enjoy as fresh as possible. Beer pairing: Everything, all of the time.[/quote'] I wish them luck getting a pale ale on tap in San Diego. If it isn't an IPA, IIPA or Triple IPA then they won't get a start It is almost like the pale ale is becoming extinct over there, which is a shame. Anyway, I am yet to try this beer and will have to track it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 It is superb Hairy, give it a try. I much prefer it to their much lauded IIPA. I've got a carton of it in for my Easter camping trip, my last commercial extravagance before my firat two brews are ready to drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I may have to make a trip to Adelaide. The only thing holding me back is the chance that I may venture into the bottle shop where Lusty works. I know the odds are long but is it a risk you would take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sounds like a plan, Hairy. You can visit their brewery on South Rd at Hindmarsh. Try a couple more at the Wheatsheaf nearby, which also brews on site. Then venture to the Gilbert for more PL, blues and dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I may have to make a trip to Adelaide. The only thing holding me back is the chance that I may venture into the bottle shop where Lusty works. I know the odds are long but is it a risk you would take? Yes' date=' that first awkward conversation ending with me saying, "Would you like fries with that?" is not one I would look forward to entertaining! [img']pinched[/img] Fear not about the need for Hairy to visit us though fellow Crow Eaters, Pirate Life have a number of listed stockists outside SA. Current listings showed about 18 in NSW. A list of supporting venues can be found HERE. That aside, I have complete faith in our state quarantine officers that Hairy would be stopped & turned back at the border. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 So TC sparking kit is no longer any good for this recipe? Any ideas what it could be replaced with? The old TC Sparkling Ale kit was bittered to approx. 36 IBU @ 23 litres fermented. The new kit is considerably higher @ approx. 45.1 IBU @ 23 litres fermented (by my calculations)' date=' & is now simply too high (IMHO) to use for that 3.5% IPA. The obvious replacement is to use the AUS Pale Ale kit & trick that up. What I found great about using the old TC Sparkling Ale kit for the 3.5% beer was that it was perfectly bittered & has a stronger ale malt composition/flavour than the AUS Pale Ale kit that has a certain percentage of wheat malt in it's mix. At 3.5% & using a kit base, it's very hard to influence malt character away from the kit itself, as you don't have much room to play with. Coincidentally, there is a very good [u']session[/u] IPA recipe in the DIY recipe bank that doesn't get a lot of airplay here on the forum, that I reckon would be very nice @ 4.5% ABV. Beer O'Clock Session IPA Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Thanks Lusty. I have just bottled a Tony W Morning Town Mid so will investigate Session IPAs further in a couple of brews time. I was really looking forward to giving your Throwback IPA copy a go but its a real shame that the Sparkling ale is no longer suitable. Back to the Pirate Life PA, bearing in mind what you have said above, could the using the Coopers Sparkling Kit as a basis (rather than the Coopers Pale kit) for it be a better way to up the ABV?? Ive tracked down Pirate Life's beers at a few bottlos in Brisbane so I'm sure they shouldn't be too hard to find in NSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 According to Lusty's map I either need to travel 50kms east or 50kms west to get a Pirate Life beer. I will track one down though. It will give me an excuse to drive up to Leura Cellars and pick up some beers after a hike in the Blue Mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 I reckon it will be worth the drive Hairy. This is a slightly modified recipe I've ripped-off from another site. Any thoughts? Would it get me anywhere near 5.4% 1.7kg Coopers Sparkling Ale tin (36IBU) 2kg of Light Dry Malt 200g Crystal Malt 200g Cara Malt 20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min 6.0 IBUs 15.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 15.0 min 10.1 IBUs 20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep 10.0 Hop 2.2 IBUs 15.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep 10.0 Hop 3.7 IBUs 20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 20.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Alright, you've forced me into crunching some numbers! The yeast to use is a tricky one, as working off their 1.053 OG for a 5.4%ABV end beer the yeast attenuation would be around 75-76% (likely US-05) leaving a FG of around 1.012 in the commercial brew that I think is artificially carbonated with C02. In a home brewing environment & bottling using natural carbonation methods, you'd have to look at a lower attenuating yeast such as S-04, or Wyeast 1272 to leave a little more malt character & body in the beer to compensate for the secondary carbonation sugar that bumps up the ABV%. Purely working off the Pirate Life figures/ingredients supplied, & if using the OLD TC Sparkling Ale kit as a base something like the following would get you somewhere in the same ballpark I would think... OLD TC Sparkling Ale kit 1.7kg (36.2 IBU) Light Dry Malt Extract 1.5kg CaraMalt grain (40 EBC) 250gms Medium Crystal grain (146 EBC) 150gms Cascade (6.7%AA) 15gms @ 15mins (5.46 IBU) Mosaic (11.0%AA) 15gms @ 10mins (6.53 IBU) Cascade 15gms @ 5mins (2.18 IBU) Mosaic & Cascade 20gms each hop tea (70-80°C steeped for 30mins) Mosaic & Cascade 25gms each dry hopped S-04 or Wyeast 1272 yeast Brewed to 23 litres Fermented @ 20°C OG = approx. 1.052 FG = approx. 1.014 EBC = 14.7 IBU = 50.3 Bottled ABV = approx. 5.4% With the old kit, that's probably what I'd put down. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ha ha, I knew I could stir someone into some calcualtions. Apologies, i need to learn this stuff for myself. Looks great, how much higher IBU is the new Sparkling kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Looks great' date=' how much higher IBU is the new Sparkling kit?[/quote']See post#9 of this thread where I've already answered that question for you. I must admit, I am a little confused at why a number of the new TC kits have had their bitterness/IBU increased as all that does is limit their versatility. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I may have to make a trip to Adelaide. Hairy' date=' you could take the shorter (and safer, Lusty-wise) trip to Canberra and visit Plonk. They stock the Pirate Life beers. Cheers, John PS Stop in at Zierholz while you are here for a nice pork knuckle or veal schnitzel and some tasty beer [img']biggrin[/img] I must admit' date=' I am a little confused at why a number of the new TC kits have had their bitterness/IBU increased as all that does is limit their versatility. [img']pinched[/img] Well, I guess only when used as a base for other recipes. On its own the new TC Sparkling tin would produce a truer version of the commercial beer in terms of bitterness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I will be driving through Canberra in late July on my way to the ski fields. I may have to "refuel" there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I must admit' date=' I am a little confused at why a number of the new TC kits have had their bitterness/IBU increased as all that does is limit their versatility. [img']pinched[/img] Well, I guess only when used as a base for other recipes. On its own the new TC Sparkling tin would produce a truer version of the commercial beer in terms of bitterness. If Coopers wish to go at reclaiming some of the "Fresh Wort Kit" market by producing a range of kits that require little in the way of adjuncts, then I personally welcome that. With my limited brewing of only 3 of the new TC kits thus far, I don't however feel this has been the objective, so am a little 'lost' (for a better word) about the need for re-invention & some of the IBU related changes apparent in some of the new TC kits. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I must admit' date=' I am a little confused at why a number of the new TC kits have had their bitterness/IBU increased as all that does is limit their versatility. [img']pinched[/img] Well, I guess only when used as a base for other recipes. On its own the new TC Sparkling tin would produce a truer version of the commercial beer in terms of bitterness. If Coopers wish to go at reclaiming some of the "Fresh Wort Kit" market by producing a range of kits that require little in the way of adjuncts, then I personally welcome that. With my limited brewing of only 3 of the new TC kits thus far, I don't however feel this has been the objective, so am a little 'lost' (for a better word) about the need for re-invention & some of the IBU related changes apparent in some of the new TC kits. Cheers, Lusty. Your issue seems to be with increased IBUs limiting the amount of hops you can add to the kit. Hops aren't adjuncts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregT5 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Just checked the list of stockists & you don't stock it Lusty? That's one way of avoiding that awkward conversation with Hairy. May have to give this one a try at some stage, although the "to do" list is growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Your issue seems to be with increased IBUs limiting the amount of hops you can add to the kit. Hops aren't adjuncts. Technicalities aside' date=' I'm not sure what others class as adjuncts when referring to kit based brewing, but I have always viewed adjuncts (rightly or wrongly) as anything I've had to add outside of the kit itself to produce a suitable end beer (including hops). In my limited exposure thus far to some of the new TC kits that come at an increased cost, I've not noticed any bridging in the gap for the need for additional adjuncts. So based on that perspective, & a now more limited versatility (mainly hop related) with these kits, what is the premise behind the changes? [img']unsure[/img] Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I don't know; I was just making a technical correction. I agree with the change to the sparkling ale kit. To make a beer similar to the commercial variety you don't need to add hops, only malt, Dex etc. The previous kit was not bitter enough to handle the extra malt required in a bigger beer and it ended up too sweet. An increase in bitterness should help with this. The slight increase in the bitterness of the wheat kit is another improvement. I haven't checked the Bootmaker one; did that increase also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtynidge Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Looks great' date=' how much higher IBU is the new Sparkling kit?[/quote']See post#9 of this thread where I've already answered that question for you. I must admit, I am a little confused at why a number of the new TC kits have had their bitterness/IBU increased as all that does is limit their versatility. Cheers, Lusty. Sorry about that Lusty. Wow that is quite a leap in bitterness. Can I identify the lower IBU (older) ones by packaging? Are they the black 'Thomas Cooper Selection' ones?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I agree with the change to the sparkling ale kit. To make a beer similar to the commercial variety you don't need to add hops' date=' only malt, Dex etc.[/quote']I agree with you mostly on this, but by the same token the kit now places itself in a spot where only 5.0%+ ABV beers are likely suited to brewing with it wouldn't you agree? The previous kit was not bitter enough to handle the extra malt required in a bigger beer and it ended up too sweet. An increase in bitterness should help with this. Again if limiting yourself to K & K brewing' date=' I agree. Past that though, what sorts of ROTM's are we likely to now see moving forward with this kit? The slight increase in the bitterness of the wheat kit is another improvement. For K & K brewing, I again agree, but for many styles of wheat beer, the basic IBU base is/was better accommodating under the old wheat beer kit IBU (IMHO). I haven't checked the Bootmaker one; did that increase also? As there wasn't a predecessor with the Bootmaker' date=' being it is a first off, it just is what it is! [img']tongue[/img] Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I agree with the change to the sparkling ale kit. To make a beer similar to the commercial variety you don't need to add hops' date=' only malt, Dex etc.[/quote']I agree with you mostly on this, but by the same token the kit now places itself in a spot where only 5.0%+ ABV beers are likely suited to brewing with it wouldn't you agree? I agree, 45 IBUs in a lower gravity beer would be a bit out of balance. Having said that the commercial beer this kit aims to replicate is at what 5.6 / 5.7% ABV (?), so this particular kit fits its purpose. Unfortunately with the limitations of the new kits you might have to go to full-extract brews to get the exact result you're after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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