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Dirtynidge

Kit ESB

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I have two recipes for a English bitter kit based ESB, any thoughts?

 

What will dropping 500g of DME for 250g Dex achieve??

 

I prefer a stronger, maltier ESB.

 

 

1.7kg English Bitter

1kg Amber DME

250g Dextrose/Sugar

20g Goldings for 15mins

30g Goldings dry hopped

Make it to 20 litres

Ferment as close to 21C as you can - the kit yeast will perform okay but you may like to add an English Ale yeast

 

Or

 

1 x Coopers 1.7kg English Bitter

3 x 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt

1 x 25g East Kent Golding (EKG) Hop Pellets

1 x 25g Centennial Hop Pellets

1 x Lallemand Nottingham Yeast Sachet

1 x 250g Coopers Carbonation Drops

 

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I like the look of the second one; the Battleship Bitter.

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That's the one hairy. I was about to buy the ingredients for Battleship (I'm a big fan of Broadside) then just to confuse matters, I saw that PB2 had also posted the one with less DME but added Dex.

 

Now I'm just a bit puzzled as to what to brew. In a perfect world I would love to make something close to the 4 Pines ESB but I realise this is a touch ambitious from an kit/extract brew.

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Yeah, I agree. Whatever you do, I would not make it to 20L. It is plenty bitter already at 23L.

 

I am drinking a batch now very similar to #2, made with 1.5kg of LME, a 20 minute steep at 160F of a bit of Fuggles and Cascade, to 23L, and fermented with S-04, and it is actually more bitter than I prefer. It is tolerable at cellar temps, but too bitter at fridge temps. Cheers! -Christina.

 

PS I sometimes wonder if I just don't like the POR bittering hops.

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That's the one hairy. I was about to buy the ingredients for Battleship (I'm a big fan of Broadside) then just to confuse matters' date=' I saw that PB2 had also posted the one with less DME but added Dex.

 

Now I'm just a bit puzzled as to what to brew. In a perfect world I would love to make something close to the 4 Pines ESB but I realise this is a touch ambitious from an kit/extract brew.[/quote']

Reducing DME and adding dex will help a beer attenuate further. This means you may be able to have a beer with the same starting gravity but finish with a lower FG. This is a preference thing.

 

If you want a 4 Pines ESB type beer then something like this might be good:

 

1.7kg English Bitter kit

1kg Light Dry Mat (DME)

250g Dextrose

150g Special B

50g Chocolate Malt

 

25g Fuggles - hop steep

25g EKG - hop steep

 

21 litres

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Sorry for stupid question but by hop steep, do you mean add at flameout and leave to steep or do you mean to make a hop tea and add to wort/FV after boil?

 

This will only be my 3rd brew and I've kept it pretty basic thus far.

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It means bring some water to the boil, then take it off the heat, throw the hops in and steep them for 20-30 minutes then strain the liquid into the fermenter when mixing up the rest of the ingredients.

 

Alternatively, you could boil the wort from the grain steep and use that instead, same method though. I'd go this way personally, because it's always a good idea to boil wort from grain steeps before chucking it in the fermenter.

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It means bring some water to the boil' date=' then take it off the heat, throw the hops in and steep them for 20-30 minutes then strain the liquid into the fermenter when mixing up the rest of the ingredients.

 

Alternatively, you could boil the wort from the grain steep and use that instead, same method though. I'd go this way personally, because it's always a good idea to boil wort from grain steeps before chucking it in the fermenter.[/quote']

 

Cheers, will go that way.

So just to clarify; boil up wort from grain steep with half the DME, add hops at flame out, steep for 30 mins.

Should I also be adding the other half of DME and Coopers can with hops at flameout? Guess the wort would be too cool to add them after 30mins steep.

I ask this because I don't suppose the 1kg DME and can all should be boiled together?

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There's no need to throw in half the DME to the boil, or even any of it. This practice is only when you are actually boiling the hops, but since you're only steeping them, the SG doesn't really matter. The reason for boiling the grain steep wort is to kill any bugs that may be in it.

 

You could throw the rest of the ingredients in after the hop steep but it might be easier to mix it all up in the fermenter instead - it would make it very thick and difficult to strain into the fermenter if they're all mixed up in the grain wort. You'll probably only need about a litre of water for that grain steep so it's not really enough to mix up everything else in. It can simply be thrown into the FV, then strain the wort from the hop steep in, add a little more water and mix it all up.

 

So basically:

 

Steep your grains in a litre or so of water somewhere around 65-70C for about 30-40 minutes.

 

Remove grains, optional rinse them with more hot water into the pot they were in.

 

Bring this wort to the boil and boil it for about 5 minutes.

 

Take off the heat, throw in the hops, cover the pot and allow to steep for about 20-30 minutes.

 

Throw the kit, DME etc. into the FV then strain the wort from the pot into the FV and mix it all up, then top up to 20 or 23 litres or whatever it is and pitch the yeast.

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Thanks, that is nice and simple.

 

I obviously need to crack the grain before steeping?

 

That will be going in straight after Easter.

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Just make sure that you have enough wort from the grain steep because throwing the hops in will soak up a bit of liquid. You don't want to lose too much of the wort you have just made.

 

And yes, you will need to crack the grain before steeping. You can ask for them to be milled by your home brew shop when you buy them.

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That's a good point about the hops soaking up wort, in this case I'd definitely be doing a rinse of the grains with extra hot water after the steep. I used to do this by using a strainer, and tipping the grains/wort through the strainer into the pot that was used for the boil itself. Then simply tip hot water slowly over the grains in the strainer into the pot as well.

 

Yes the grains need to be cracked otherwise they won't really do anything. Given you most likely don't have a grain mill it's probably easiest to get your LHBS to crack them for you.

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So 5l or so of wort should be enough. I have a 20l pot so can go

more if required

5 litres is heaps' date=' especially for 200g of grain. I used to only use about 1.5 litres of water for that much grain.

 

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but I used to steep the grain and hops in separate pots and would steep the hops only in water. That way I could do two processes at the same time [img']wink[/img]

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I see the logic in that; more than one way to skin a cat.

 

Could one make a 'hop tea' in a coffee plunger and

add it to the FV with the boiled wort?

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Yep. I started out using a pot but at the end I was using a coffee plunger. I occasionally make a hop tea now and when I do I use a plunger.

 

Nice and simple.

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Yeah 5 litres would be a bit much for this instance. 1-2 litres would be sufficient, and obviously as Hairy has said there, you can do separate steeps of both grain and hops at the same time if you want to save a bit of time. I probably did that myself but it's been about 4 years since I last brewed a kit with a hop/grain steep.. lol

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Great advice thanks.

 

Any thoughts on yeast for the 4 Pines type ESB? On hand I have Nottingham, US05 and obviously the coopers kit yeast. Which of these would be best?

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Out of those I would go with Notto or the kit yeast.

 

Mangrove Jacks British Ale yeast (or whatever it is now called) is great for this beer. 4 Pines ESB isn't overly estery and the MJ yeast works well.

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G'day Dirtynidge, I would point you to this recipe Hop Gobbler, I have brewed it many times with different English hops and English like hops and it has always been a winner, to my tastes, i did one with 100 grams of Pacifica with a progressive boil and dry hop and it was a revelation. happy

 

The basic recipe is great, give it a go and you will enjoy it, but know you can add different hop schedules and different British Ale yeasts and enjoy many variations in this recipe. love

 

Cheers.

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Magnaman, tell us more about your Hop Gobbler with Pacifica hops; details of the hop schedule I mean. I might have a crack at it if it's as good as you say.

 

I've brewed Hop Gobbler once, pretty much as per the standard recipe, but would like to explore it a bit further.

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You must be a mind reader! Hop Gobbler is next on my list (after 4P ESB), I love hobgoblin and have enjoyed it on tap at my old local when visiting family 'back home'.

 

 

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Dirtynidge, let us know how the 4 Pines beer turns out. I am interested to hear how a kit version works out.

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I just pitched yeast and put her to bed at 19c Hairy.

 

I went exactly to your recipe, OG 1048 so just sneaks in as an ESB.

 

Used Nottingham yeast and rehydrated as per the sachet instructions. Never done that before, just sprinkled US-05 on my only other two brews. My first grain steep and boil too, all seemed straightforward enough.

 

Fingers crossed, I really hope this one turns out well.

 

Bottled Tony W's Morning Town Pale (mid) this arvo, might have rushed it as airlock bubbling on and off but SG has been constant at 1006 for 3 days so I bit the bullet. Tastes good seems like it might be a winner, if the bottles don't explode!

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Hairy, do you think I should dry hop this brew (with say 25g of EKG) or leave it with just the hop steep?

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