2nd Brew - Mexican Cervesa

[shitsngiggles]

Hi all, I am new to the forum, I have been watching for a while and have just bottled my 2nd brew. I grew up with my Dad brewing so had a fair idea of what to do, TBH though I have been amazed how much more diverse brewing has become and the knowledge and suggestions being shared on this forum.

 

So my first brew was the Big Standard Coopers Larger from the kit the kids got me for xmas - still haven't tried it yet, it's still in secondary till next week. I have just finished bottling my second brew which I got a little adventurous with.

 

1 x Coopers Mexican Cervesa kit

1.5 kg LHBS Ultra special blend = 750g LDM, 375g DEX, 375g Corn

1 pk Morgans Pils. Low Carb Dry Enzyme

OG = 1043

Coopers Kit Yeast - Pitched at 26 degrees

 

Set FV in temp controlled fridge at 20 degrees

 

Day 3 steeped 10g Galaxy hops in 2cups boiled water for 20 mins and added all directly to FV

 

Day 6 SG = 1000 - found temp had dropped too low to 14 degrees so adjusted fridge to lift back to 20

 

Day 8 FG = 1000 @ 20 degree, added Brigalow finings as per pack instructions gentle stir and set fridge to crash cool

 

Day 10 (Today) FG = 1000 bottled - Tasted damn good :), it is certainly in the style I like at present, dry and crisp with a bit of body, was worried the hops may bitter it too much for my liking .... can't wait to try again in a couple of weeks once secondary is complete.

 

Would really like to hear some opinions of my adventure, and also meow for my next ...

 

I have a Tooheys Classic Blonde kit and a BE2, thinking of adding some extra LDM or Corn to boost body and ABV, also thinking of dry hopping some Citra or Motueka hops .... open for thoughts and suggestions please

 

[Jag1525229524]

Interesting. I brew mine as per can instructions, with the only difference being 500g of Japanese-style rice malt, to give it a more authentic Mexican flavour. It came our really good - a friend of mine who is a Corona lover said mine was the best "Mexican" beer he ever tasted, and I'm supposed to take him to the brewing shop to get him started - guess I will be buying all the fancy brewing equipment spending his money (or so I hope)!

 

Personally, I'm more of an IPA than Cerveza person, so originally I thought I would not make this beer again anytime soon, but now I'm thinking about doing it again with some dry hopping - maybe something line Pacific Summer Ale but with the Cerveza as the base instead of Aussie Pale Ale. I might try slightly different hops too.

[Otto Von Blotto]

If you want to boost body, ditch the dry enzyme because it does thin the beer out, as evidenced by your 1.000 FG reading. It's basically the consistency of water. If you're gonna use finings, they're better added after the beer has already chilled down rather than beforehand.

 

Hops steeped in hot water won't add any noticeable, if any bitterness. They need to be boiled to add bitterness.

 

As for your next adventure, I'd probably go with the extra LDM, it'll turn out nicer. Dry hop suggestions sound good too. Could even do another one of those hop tea things as well if you like to get a little more hop flavour.

[shitsngiggles]

Thanks OVB, I think your advice on the enzyme is on the money, my first taste i had fleeting thoughts of it maybe being a little watery, but I do like dry light and crisp and think that there is a fine line to watery.

 

Just about to put the next brew down now, will take your advice and go the LDM with the BE2.

 

Will be trying the dry hop this time, any suggestions on which hops ?

 

[shitsngiggles]

Ok brew is down, with the BE2, turns out the 500g of LDM i had was not ... was actually DEX, so it went in anyways.

 

Pitched the Tooheys yeast @ 24 degrees and into the fridge set at 20.

 

I plan on dry hopping at day 3 .... unless anybody suggests something better, still not decided on which hops to use, my LHBS has a good range so open to suggestions

[ChristinaS1]

Ok brew is down' date=' with the BE2, turns out the 500g of LDM i had was not ... was actually DEX, so it went in anyways.

 

Pitched the Tooheys yeast @ 24 degrees and into the fridge set at 20.

 

I plan on dry hopping at day 3 .... unless anybody suggests something better, still not decided on which hops to use, my LHBS has a good range so open to suggestions[/quote']

 

If I am not mistaken this style was originally made by German immigrants to Mexico, so if you want to keep to style use one of the German noble hops like Hallertau, or Tettnanger, or possibly Saaz. But in home-brewing anything goes. Cheers, Christina.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I'm not familiar with that kit unfortunately... if Christina's comments are on the money then perhaps the Moteuka might be the way to go for that dry hop. I'd probably wait until about day 6 or 7 before dry hopping though. The CO2 produced by fermentation can take some of the hop aroma away with it when it escapes. Not sure how big of an effect this has on a home brew scale but personally I prefer to wait until fermentation is pretty well done, just to nullify this potential issue.

[shitsngiggles]

Thanks Christina and OVB, will dry hop the Moteuka once the brew reaches FG.

[shitsngiggles]

Question for the experienced brewers ......

 

The Tooheys brew I put down on Friday (3 days) is showing plenty of activity (CO2 bubbles) but no Krausen build up at all?

 

I have never seen this before, is it normal or is there something wrong?

[tembusu]

My current batch is a TC Mexican Cerveza

1.7kg TC Mexican Cerveza

0.5 kg Liquid Rice Malt

0.3 kg light dry malt

0.3 kg dextrose

0.2 kg maltodextrin

zest from 2 lemons

10g Halletauer boil 15 mins

15g Tettnanger Dry Hopping

OG 1.048

21 litres

Fermentis Saflager Yeast pitched at 24 deg C

Brew at 18 deg C for 7 day.

Dropped temp to 12 deg C on day 8 to day 14

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Question for the experienced brewers ......

 

The Tooheys brew I put down on Friday (3 days) is showing plenty of activity (CO2 bubbles) but no Krausen build up at all?

 

I have never seen this before' date=' is it normal or is there something wrong?[/quote']

 

Not knowing what type of yeast is in the Tooheys kits, it's hard to say if it's normal or not. Perhaps that yeast doesn't build up a big krausen.

 

Best thing to remember though - there is no such thing as normal. Every brew will behave differently, even identical recipes fermented at the same temp with the same yeast etc. As long as there is activity it's fine.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Fermentis Saflager Yeast pitched at 24 deg C

Brew at 18 deg C for 7 day.

Dropped temp to 12 deg C on day 8 to day 14

 

You'd be far better off reversing those temperatures, i.e. drop it to 12C for the first 7 days then raise it to 18 for the second week. You'll most likely end up with unwanted esters and other off flavours if you ferment it at 18 straight away.

[shitsngiggles]

Day 5 just took an SG reading of 1.011, looks like i still have reasonable activity so will leave it go another couple of days before dry hopping.

 

As much as there was no Krausen (just weird) everything seems fine, tasted the SG sample and seemed ok, there is heaps of yeast suspended so couldn't get a good taste, but there was defiantly nothing 'off' with it, seemed to have some good flavours hidden amongst the taste of yeast.

 

I have been trying to read up on yeasts, types, temps etc and wondered .... could the Tooheys yeast be a bottom fermenting Lager type and this is why there is no Krausen?

[Otto Von Blotto]

I suppose it *could* be, but it's unlikely. Main reason being, lager yeasts are best fermented around 10-12C and most beginners don't have the means to be able to maintain these temperatures.

 

Also, 5g of dry lager yeast is nowhere near enough to successfully ferment a full size batch of wort (25g would be more appropriate). It's not even enough ale yeast, but it is Tooheys after all

[tembusu]

OVB, interesting that you mentioned that I should start fermenting at 12 deg C. I set the fridge temperature based the thermometer which I've found subsequently (after your comment) to be inaccurate. There seems to be a 4-5 dec C difference between the fermentor and the plastic thermometer. So in reality I probably started fermenting at 13-14 deg C- not ideal but hopefully I get away with having off flavours. What say you Kelsey?

[Otto Von Blotto]

OVB' date=' interesting that you mentioned that I should start fermenting at 12 deg C. I set the fridge temperature based the thermometer which I've found subsequently (after your comment) to be inaccurate. There seems to be a 4-5 dec C difference between the fermentor and the plastic thermometer. So in reality I probably started fermenting at 13-14 deg C- not ideal but hopefully I get away with having off flavours. What say you Kelsey?[/quote']

 

Yes, 10-12C is the optimum starting temp for lager yeast fermentations. No harm in pitching warm to encourage faster multiplying of cells before bringing it down, though I believe the preferred method is to pitch an adequate number of cells at or a bit below ferment temps. That can come later though.

 

Yes, while 13-14C is a bit on the high side, it's certainly much better than 18C. The off flavours will be reduced, or maybe non existent even. You can probably encourage the yeast to clean any of them up by raising it to 18C in the second week. What are you using to control the fridge temp?

[tembusu]

Not using anything. Manual manipulation of the fridge setting though I should be getting a temperature controller. One question. The switching on and off of the fridge by the controller-will that not cause harm to the fridge?

I'll however raise the temp in the fridge as suggested.

[shitsngiggles]

but it is Tooheys after all

 

I have read a few threads and seems Tooheys is not highly valued around these parts .... (insert Coopers plug) hopefully the Coopers BE2 might save the brew and make it just drinkable.

[Otto Von Blotto]

yes I'd be getting a temp controller, it makes things a lot easier. I think as long as it doesn't turn the fridge on and off too often, it doesn't really do it any harm. You can set it to delay turning the fridge on too soon after it has switched off, but I find in a normal fermentation schedule it doesn't come on that often anyway. I've been using an old 1950s Frigidaire to ferment in for the last 3 and a half years, and it has showed no signs of crapping itself. Maybe it's just built better anyway

 

As for the Tooheys kits, yeah.. it's probably a combination of factors, the main one being most of them are brewed by newbies who understandably know nothing about decent brewing practices. My first brew getting back into it was a Tooheys kit with 1kg brewing sugar fermented with the yeast that came with it, at ambient Brisbane temps in the middle of December. At the time I didn't mind it too much but looking back on it now, it was absolute rubbish. Very very cidery. Then I discovered this forum, and learned about better ingredients, temps etc. and began the slippery slide into the obsession...

[Loch Brewer]

Good old Frigidaire - "A product of General Motors Holden"

I've been looking out for one myself. Used to have a oven / stove.......

[shitsngiggles]

Well curiosity got the better of me and I couldn't contain myself any longer ... just had to tear the scab off one of these great Mexican Cervesas and TBH it wasn't what I was expecting although not far off.

 

It's only been in the bottle about 11 days so still too young, will leave them a bit longer. they have carb'd up ok, the great light body, dry, crisp taste i got when bottling is still there but is being overpowered by a banana, I am guessing this is just the remaining esters from fermentation and carbonation and they will subside with age? Seems to have a good highish ABV too which I like.

 

Overall happy with it, just need more patience .... back to drinking my Lager for now

 

 

[Beerlust]

Hi shitsngiggles.

 

I've been following your thread here, but haven't commented so far as you've been receiving some good advice thus far mainly from OVB.

1 x Coopers Mexican Cervesa kit

1.5 kg LHBS Ultra special blend = 750g LDM' date=' 375g DEX, [b']375g Corn[/b]

1 pk Morgans Pils. Low Carb Dry Enzyme

OG = 1043

Coopers Kit Yeast - Pitched at 26 degrees

 

Set FV in temp controlled fridge at 20 degrees...

I just wanted to explain a couple of things based on your first brewing of this beer, & some alterations you can make next time that will drastically improve it.

 

I'll start with the two ingredients I've bolded.

 

The "Corn" you mentioned is likely corn syrup powder. This product is either one &/or the same, or very closely related to maltodextrin. Both products are designed to add body & mouthfeel to home brewed beer. When you added the Morgans Pils. Low Carb Dry Enzyme into your brew, you asked this enzyme to breakdown previously unfermentable sugars including the corn syrup powder, & allow it to be fermented by the yeast. Your eventual 1.000 gravity reading reflects this.

 

Adding those two ingredients in the same brew is counterproductive & is a waste of your hard earned cash. As an example it's like adding dye to a cloth & then pouring bleach over it. Using the two in conjunction with one another serves no purpose.

 

If you seriously want to get the best out of that kit & recipe you'd need to brew it as the commercial brewery does as a lager, fermented at lager temperatures with a true lager yeast. Forgoing the ability to ferment at those temperatures, perhaps try the following recipe if you can hold your ferment temp around the 17-18°C mark.

 

Coopers Mexican Cerveza kit 1.7kg

Light Dry Malt Extract 1kg

Dextrose 200gms

Nottingham or US-05 yeast

Brewed to 23 litres.

 

The Cerveza's are not meant to be a big fluffy headed beer. In this case head retention is not really high on the priority list. If you really want to improve the head retention for a beer like this, then steep 150-200gms of CaraPils in conjunction with the above recipe.

 

Good luck with your future brewing,

 

Lusty.

[shitsngiggles]

Hi again Lusty,

 

Thanks for the awesome feedback and advice, I'ts been years since I've been around my father brewing and there is so much that more variation and different products available now, so I'm still learning what the different recipes/combo's produce, this forum certainly is great!

 

With the "Corn" this was part of a pre blended Ultra Special mix I got from my LHBS, certainly next time I can look at a different blend that does not contain it or more likely give your suggested recipe a go, I do like the Cervesa's. Oh and yes I have temp control, I am brewing in a controlled fridge.

 

I hear what your saying about being counter productive, just a little unsure with what your saying of the effects of the enzyme and corn in this recipe as a whole though ... Would the corn act like an enzyme on the other fermentables? the LDM and Dex?. I did read somewhere that corn will fully ferment out to alcohol and not provide much else in the way of body, flavour or mouth feel, whereas maltodextrin is not fully fermentable and is used in blends for giving mouth feel and body .... have i read or remembered wrong?or is it that the enzyme is effectively making the LDM and DEX the same as Corn and killing any body/mouthfeel they may contribute?

 

When I give your recipe a shot I would like to up the ABV a bit maybe to 5-6% what fermentable(s) should I look at increasing to achieve this, I like Sweet, Dry, Crisp beers with high ABV, I can't drink large volumes of fizzy beer, at present I am trying reduced priming doses for less carbonation, my father has had great success with half dose, however he likes heavier darker style ale which less fizz would suit, I am conscious that less fizz may not suit the Cervesa and Blonde styles very well.

 

Also do you have any advice/opinion of the banana aroma and flavour that I am getting, where did it come from and will it go away? ... I sure as hell didn't bung any nana's in there

[Otto Von Blotto]

And therein lies the problem with simply labelling it "corn". There are two different products, corn sugar (dextrose) and corn syrup (maltodextrin). These are American terms, and understandably confusing; why they can't just call it dex and maltodex like everyone else beats me, but anyway.

 

Dextrose fully ferments out and only contributes alcohol, and shit flavours if used in excess and/or with high ferment temps. Maltodextrin doesn't ferment, adding body to the beer. The dry enzyme breaks down the sugars in the maltodextrin (or other unfermentables) into sugars that are able to be fermented by the yeast, hence the point about adding the enzyme and maltodextrin to the same brew being counterproductive. The maltodextrin won't do what it should because it will have been broken down and fermented away with everything else.

 

The banana influence would most likely be an ester from the yeast. It may or may not go away with time in the bottles, but is likely a product of too high a ferment temperature, and possibly an underpitch as well. The kit yeast in that Cerveza kit is better fermented around 17-18C, and it's probably a good idea to re-hydrate it as well. It contains half lager yeast, and with that being fermented at 20C it's probably thrown the banana. I had good results with that yeast at the 17-18C temp mentioned.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[shitsngiggles]

Ahhhhh .... now it is all starting to make sense (insert noise of penny dropping)

 

Thanks Kelsey.

 

So between Lusty's help, my half understanding and your clarification the short story i got is basically what Lusty was trying to tell me ... Enzymes are shit, unless you want thin high ABV beer, and if they are to be used don't bother using another fermentable than simple sugars like Table, DEX or Corn sugar, which I'm guessing is the "Corn" in my LHBS Ultra Special Blend considering it was a dry blend.

 

You blokes have helped my understanding of sugars heaps ... Cheers

 

Also thanks for the yeast ester advice, I wondered if temp may have had something to do with it, that or some monkey with his nana's has been try to pinch me beer.

 

Since discussing temps with you on another thread I have adjusted my fridge down to 18 deg, and I found my controller calibration is about .5-1 deg high so should be fermenting around 17-18 consistently now ... still haven't adjusted the calibration, or worked out how to yet.

 

Cheers

Justin