Blueberry Porter

[Otto Von Blotto]

You're right, chill haze doesn't affect the actual flavour of the beer. However, it can affect perception of the flavour. I know for me it does, and it's possibly a result of those yeasty beers. The flavour in them always seems sort of muddied, so I guess I've come to associate cloudiness with a muddied flavour, regardless of where the cloud is coming from. Even Stone and Wood Pacific Ale, as refreshing as it is, tastes muddied to me. Conversely I perceive beers with a bright, clear appearance, to have a brighter, crisper and cleaner flavour, and it is one that much more enjoy. The flavours seem to jump out at me more. So I guess I'll be using finings for a while yet.

 

There is a school of thought that removing tannins (half the chill haze equation) also preserves the flavour longer and prevents premature staling. I don't think any of us leave our beers in storage long enough to worry about that though.

 

Despite the use of Brewbrite in the boil, I have not noticed any improvement in chill haze reduction from solely cold crashing beers, however I did note that some beers turned out clearer than others. Probably something to do with the grist in each recipe.

 

I had a batch of pilsner with really bad chill haze last year (the epic step mash fail brew). I found a bottle of it and left this bottle in the fridge for 3 months or so. When I did try it, still full of haze; it had reduced a little but not by much, and that was in a stubbie. No wonder it never bloody clears up in the fermenter without some help.

 

In any case, this thread is getting way off track As has been said 34539 times, it's personal preference at the end of the day... just do what makes you happy.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Beerlust]

 

The beer is a typical deep golden pale ale recipe that I brew fairly regularly. THE RECIPE. The methods used to clarify the beer in these pictures are exactly as I mentioned above. Sorry for the glass used with the etching. I had planned to take a picture tomorrow with a full clear glass, but it ended up being the last glass from the keg!

 

Bloody nice drop it was too!

 

If you want your beer clearer than that, maybe finings are for you.

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yeah, see mine never end up that clear without finings. If they did, then I probably wouldn't use them either. I don't strain my wort into the cube, it would be a bit cumbersome and too difficult with a hose connected to a ball valve, compared to simply picking up a pot and tipping it. However, all the other processes are used. Perhaps there is the difference.

 

Oh well, the finings give me the results I want without much effort.

[Beerlust]

...I don't strain my wort into the cube' date=' it would be a bit cumbersome and too difficult with a hose connected to a ball valve, compared to simply picking up a pot and tipping it. However, all the other processes are used. Perhaps there is the difference. [img']unsure[/img]

What about when you transfer from the cube into the FV?

[Otto Von Blotto]

Nope, not then either. That said, I use a tap on the cube so most of the crap stays in it rather than getting transferred, as it isn't really being agitated by picking the thing up to pour it in. I could use a stocking, but that'd just be more cleaning and sanitising which to me is more effort than mixing up some powder in a pyrex jug and tipping it into the FV.

 

It may be better now that I have new cubes though. The old ones had expanded to a point where I basically had to empty the urn to fill them enough to easily squeeze all the air out, and as such a lot of the urn trub went in as well. When they were newer this was not an issue so the trub was left behind. Those beers still had varying amounts of chill haze in them though, so I dunno.

 

I've found an easy solution that works for me anyway, so I'm happy.

[Morrie]

G'day Lusty - I'm interested to hear if you've got around to drinking any blueberry porter yet ...... and if so what's it like?

 

I've just put down another Bootmaker and am considering doing a blueberry ale next....... based with a Coopers Aussie Pale Ale can.

[MarkC]

Several weeks ago I made a golden ale, that I split into 2 FVs - one with frozen cherries, the other with mixed berries.

The cherry beer I left on fruit for 6 weeks, I was aiming for 2 months per a US recipe I was using, but it didn't appear to be getting any more colour so I pulled it and bottled it.

The mixed fruit (on mega special at supermarket) was interesting, the blackberries and raspberries were visibly consumed by yeast and colour steadily transferred into the beer. The blueberries did nothing, so when I started to worry about all that fruit sludge attracting other nasties, I strained into a secondary and then bottled. This beer has turned out exactly what I was after, my partner is now a very happy girl with a large supply of her favourite beer style.

The moral of the story is that blueberries don't seem to do anything in a brew, unless maybe you crush them (like grapes in winemaking) or make them into some sort of syrup, like Lusty did. I note that in Germany they add syrups to beer, maybe this is the most reliable way of getting a desired flavour in a beer you like.

So my reading and very limited novice experience is that soft berries like blackberries and raspberries, added frozen so there's no nasties added to the FV, are a cheap and very effective way to produce a really tasty fruit beer. The blueberries came out looking unaffected, so I wouldn't bother with them.

[Beerlust]

Hi Morrie.

G'day Lusty - I'm interested to hear if you've got around to drinking any blueberry porter yet ...... and if so what's it like?

According to my brew log' date=' the Porter has only been in the bottle just on a month. I'll likely crack one open to see how it's going this time next month. I could open one now as it would be sufficiently carbonated, but I feel it would still taste very 'separated'. I generally only make one batch of this type of beer each year, & I really savour them when they are suitably aged. [img']joyful[/img]

 

I currently have about half a keg left of my Amber Ale, maybe a third thanks to my mate who was around yesterday & woofing into it , & am kegging another personal favourite recipe tomorrow, so I have no shortage of beer to drink atm to allow time for the Porter to age.

 

Good times ahead.

 

Cheers & good brewing,

 

Lusty.

[Morrie]

Thanks for your update Lusty -

I guess I would have well and truly tried a bottle of the blueberry porter by now but your reluctance appears to be based on past experience regarding the amalgamation of flavours. I think I would really prefer the Porter based one that you have brewed but I am intending to make a more girly type beer with the blueberries.

 

I'd be interested to hear how the vanilla bean comes through the blueberry and hops and if its actually discernible as I am interested in giving that one a try also.

 

Cheers - Morrie

[Morrie]

G'day MarkC -

 

Thanks for your notes of experience regarding the brewing of fruity beers. Yes.... I think the way to go with the blueberries is along the lines of what Lusty does ie: making up a slurry. I own a low speed single screw juicer and intend juicing the blueberries and then heating this juice to 100ºC to kill off any possible wild yeasts or bacteria that could have been living on the skin, and then adding into the FV during the latter stages of fermentation. The skins and pulp I intend to discard. I think the effect on ABV with the blueberry juice would be very difficult to approximate. If anyone has any thoughts on this then I would appreciate them.

 

 

[Beerlust]

I think the effect on ABV with the blueberry juice would be very difficult to approximate. If anyone has any thoughts on this then I would appreciate them.

So don't approximate. To some degree' date=' it can be tracked & measured. [img']wink[/img]

 

I was interested in this myself when I brewed this Porter. I ran the recipe through my brewing software (IanH's Spreadsheet) minus the blueberry syrup I added. The software/spreadsheet will give you an approximate OG & FG for the brew. As I mentioned in post#21 of this thread, my Porter recipe minus the blueberry syrup suggested an OG of 1.054. The actual measured hydrometer reading came in at 1.058 with the 1kg of blueberries added. That's a 4 point increase using 1kg of this fruit & my syrup method.

 

Approximated FG minus the blueberry syrup was 1.016. Actual FG ended up being 1.016 with the blueberry syrup. Without knowing exactly what portion of that 0.004 increase in original gravity dropped from suspension & what portion fermented, being a bit of a novice myself in this fruit beer brewing, it's hard for me to say exactly. Just running the numbers though suggests a 0.5% increase in ABV% from the 1kg of blueberries using my method of creating a syrup based addition as I did here, & that the syrup had a high fermentability given the FG didn't increase above the predicted FG without the inclusion of the blueberries.

 

Taking gravity readings against software predicted outcomes minus the fruit additions, is a good way to gauge the effect your fruit additions are having on your brew & potentially your final ABV%.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[ChristinaS1]

Hi Lusty. Can you get frozen blackberries (not black currants) in Australia? If so, consider trying them in your next fruit beer. Apparently their flavour comes through the fermentation process really well, providing a fresh, juicy berry flavour to the finished product. Blackberries and blueberries have about the same (low amount) of sugar, and the same tannin level, but blackberries are a shade less acidic, plus they are dominated by malic acid instead of citric acid. The advantage of this is that if you co-pitch a malic acid reducing wine yeast like Lalvin 71B-1122, which is very cheap and fully compatible with ale yeast, it will reduce the malic acid by 20-40%, plus add more complexity. Cheers! -Christina.

 

PS If you can't get Lalvin 71B-1122 I believe you can substitute Vinter's Harvest MA22, but it is likely more expensive as it contains vitamins in addition to the yeast; the extra vitamins are not necessary in beer wort, which is plenty nutritious already.

 

PPS As I mentioned before, don't leave the fruit in contact with the beer more than five days. Add them on day 3 of fermentation (to reduce how much of their aroma is scrubbed away by CO2) and either keep them in a mesh bag that can be removed or rack to secondary.

[Beerlust]

Hi Christina.

 

I have enjoyed reading your posts & watching your evolution as a brewer evolve as a continual thing. It really has been quite impressive given the space of time from my viewpoint.

 

In more recent times you have revealed your love for ciders (the evil wannabe inclusives of beer notoriety )

 

I have taken note of how you use numerous seasonal ingredients available to you, or that you grow yourself in your brewing & how to integrate them, & that garners a lot of respect from me. I think it's really cool.

 

That said, I brew beer. No cider, no ginger beer (it isn't really a beer people!).

 

All those yeast strains you mentioned will never set foot in my brewery.

 

* beats chest like King Kong! *

 

Coincidentally I don't own a cat either.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

 

 

[Morrie]

Lusty - thanks for your information regarding ABV with a blueberry brew. I won't know the OG with the fruit added as I was intending to add it in the later stages of fermentation.....but what you have written has given me some idea of what to expect. I'm wondering how much blueberry can be added without making the ale come out too tarty.

[ChristinaS1]

Hi Christina.

 

I have enjoyed reading your posts & watching your evolution as a brewer evolve as a continual thing. It really has been quite impressive given the space of time from my viewpoint.

 

In more recent times you have revealed your love for ciders (the evil wannabe inclusives of beer notoriety )

 

I have taken note of how you use numerous seasonal ingredients available to you' date=' or that you grow yourself in your brewing & how to integrate them, & that garners a lot of respect from me. I think it's really cool. [img']smile[/img]

 

That said, I brew beer. No cider, no ginger beer (it isn't really a beer people!).

 

All those yeast strains you mentioned will never set foot in my brewery.

 

* beats chest like King Kong! *

 

Coincidentally I don't own a cat either.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

 

 

Thanks for the kind words Lusty. You are quite right that I like using ingredients I can grow myself or forage for in the woods around me.

 

Regarding my increasing interest in cider, there is a new (the first) cidery opening near me and I am applying for a part-time job there. Keeping my fingers crossed that they did not fill all of the positions before I heard about it.

 

As for your chest beating, ha-ha! FYI, 71B/MA22 is the same Saccharomyces Cerevisiae as beer yeast, so it won't be a stranger to your brewery.

 

I will be interested to hear how you like the acidity of your Blueberry Porter when you finally do start sampling it, as it will be more acidic than if you hadn't used fruit. Keep us posted.

 

If I ever try making a fruit beer again, I am going to do what I suggested in my earlier post. I think it is a darn good strategy, if I do say so myself.

[porschemad911]

Coincidentally I don't own a cat either.

You don't know the hilarity you are missing out on ... especially if you own 2 cats that like to stir each other up!

[Beerlust]

Coincidentally I don't own a cat either.

You don't know the hilarity you are missing out on ... especially if you own 2 cats that like to stir each other up!

 

 

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

I'm just enjoying a few glasses of this beer as I type this.

 

The blueberry character is holding on very well through aging, & I can honestly say I have had no drop-off at all with it's intensity, it's very good. When you crack the crown seal & have a whiff the blueberry notes hit you instantly. Despite some earlier views on where it was at, it is still very pronounced right now & has the Porter derived malt characters playing a second seat atm.

 

It's certainly gotten smoother since the last time I sampled this beer, although a slight pectin based tannin is still noticeable, but I'll put that down to my novice experience with using fruit in beers & it isn't unpleasant at all anyway.

 

Despite a very low secondary carbonation level I ran on this brew, there is a slight over-carbonation issue that exists that I can only put down to me likely bottling the beer with some unfermented sugars still present in the beer despite a stable gravity reading over a couple of days. I'll be a little more vigilant about how I approach this next time around.

 

For a dark malted beer, it is surprisingly refreshing.

 

I have learned, & am learning a lot from this brew.

 

As a thought to leave those interested with, the fruit quantity & method I used to infuse it into the beer recipe has worked very well for a prominent blueberry character.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[ChristinaS1]

Glad you are happy with your blueberry experiment Lusty.

 

I have made two fruit beers: a black currant Dark Ale and a raspberry-rhubarb APA. Both were very tart and awful.

 

In retrospect think that success in making fruit beers might require using lowish IBUs and lots of light or medium crystal, as fruit sugars are completely fermented out and leave behind a lot of acid. I am not sure I will ever attempt another fruit beer but, if I ever make a Mild Ale again, I might risk siphoning off a gallon and use that.

 

Cheers! -Christina.

[Beerlust]

Hi Christina.

 

Let me dispel any doubts you have about YOU brewing an enjoyable fruit infused beer. You're a very adept brewer now IMHO.

 

I feel your choice of fruits, brews to use them in, & methods of flavour extraction have let you down by the time you tasted it in the glass.

 

Given the weather conditions there now in Canada, & your current experiences with fruit in beer, perhaps use this time of year, & an attitude of perhaps going back to basics to then work off, to then move forward with?

 

At times I still go back to proven brews, including kit based brews to learn from when I've made mistakes or had less than flattering outcomes with my own ventures. There's no shame in that for me, only very enjoyable beer as a result.

 

You're a Canuck, it's Spring/Summer, & you're patriotic.

 

Coopers DIY Recipe: Blushing Blonde

 

Do it.

 

Lusty.