Beerlust Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi guys. Just an update on this brew. The 1728 yeast has again done a great job & has reached expected FG of 1.015-16 from the 1.058 OG. I couldn't help it, & had a swig from the hydro sample & can detect the blueberries both by taste & smell, & a delicate smokey character I was hoping for again from the yeast. It could be the darker grains though? I've removed the FV from the brew fridge where it will now sit indoors under ambient conditions, & tomorrow I'll add the split vanilla bean & the Mosaic hops for the dry hop phase before looking to bottle it later next week. I mainly tasted the beer to see if the blueberry flavour had shown up or not, & although pleasing, I don't put too much in the tasting from the early hydro sample as the components are still very separated. It's the extended conditioning time you allow that brings all that separation together to produce the complete flavour & aroma of a beer like this once aged suitably. As the song goes, it's . I hope the beer turns out as cool as that song is. Looking good so far. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Lusty - I recently tried some Blueberry beer in Tokyo and in all places at a Sake brewery. I can tell you that it was absolutely delicious. Even SWMBO liked it and she doesn't drink beer due to not being able to stand the smell of the hops as she lived across the road from a brewery in England as a child. I can't tell you anything about the said beer other than that, due to language issues. That was the first time that I had ever heard of Blueberry beer and did not ever think I would hear it mentioned again. Maybe is is more common than I thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi Morrie. With so many wonderful hops out there that mimic many fruit flavours, I guess fruit has been used less over the years to flavour beers etc. There are still those commercially that go to the trouble of using fruit in some of their beers, & there is certainly something unique about those types of beers. Blueberry is one such fruit that I don't feel has been able to be mimicked with a hop as yet. When I was calculating the cost of making this beer, it isn't on the cheaper side for a home brewed beer. The blueberries cost me $9.00 alone. But when you compare the cost of 1kg of fruit vs hops to the same weight, fresh/frozen fruit certainly is a lot cheaper. While on the subject of the brew, I hurled the split vanilla bean & Mosaic dry hops in yesterday, & admit it was smelling mighty fine. Out of curiosity, was the beer you sampled in Tokyo a lighter coloured beer or a dark beer like this Porter? Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It was dark, the colour of blueberries but not super dark. I could still taste the hop through it and it was just perfect. I don't think it was artificially coloured and definitely not artificially flavoured. The blueberry flavour I thought was authentic. I think because it was called blueberry beer and coloured bluish SWMBO didn't recognise it as a normal type of beer and therefore enjoyed it. It was kegged beer and I thought I could have stayed quite a while and had a good session there but there were other things on the agenda. It was a nice lunch at the Sake brewery of wood fired pizza and blueberry ale. You have actually got me thinking about doing one now and I'm very interested to see how yours turns out. I'd like to maybe keep it simple and just add in a blueberry slurry with a coopers pack and some LME and see how it goes. I have been brewing for nearly 40yrs now off and on. This is my 4th go. I consider myself as a very basic amateur as I have only ever been a can and kilo bloke. Mostly done coopers larger over the years. I would now like to slowly move on to some slightly more adventurous beers and brewing. I am absolutely astounded at the level of knowledge that most posters posses on this forum. Is there any decent reference material that I should be reading to broaden my knowledge in brewing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 You have actually got me thinking about doing one now and I'm very interested to see how yours turns out. I'd like to maybe keep it simple and just add in a blueberry slurry with a coopers pack and some LME and see how it goes. It should work well. Using a lighter malt extract in conjunction with the kit' date=' should help to throw the blueish hue from the blueberries. I am absolutely astounded at the level of knowledge that most posters posses on this forum. Is there any decent reference material that I should be reading to broaden my knowledge in brewing? My current knowledge bank has primarily evolved from posing questions on this forum & to Google. Cheers & good brewing, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 G'day Lusty - I guess you were aware that CraftBrewer have a blueberry flavouring which they claim is a la naturaal. www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3396 I suppose you decided to go down the more natural and wholesome route with your blueberry flavour. Would you care to make comment regarding the CraftBrewer product, that is if you have an opinion about it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I am absolutely astounded at the level of knowledge that most posters posses on this forum. Is there any decent reference material that I should be reading to broaden my knowledge in brewing? Hi Morrie, Things I have found helpful are: 1.) John Palmer's "How to Brew." An older version of the book is online for free: http://www.howtobrew.com/ 2.) Brew Your Own Magazine (many old articles are on the website for free): https://byo.com/ 3.) Listening to old episodes of this radio show: http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio Cheers! -Christina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Thanks - Christina, that will get me reading. I'm just learning heaps reading what you guys are writing on here too..... and King's video clips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 G'day Lusty - I guess you were aware that CraftBrewer have a blueberry flavouring which they claim is a la naturaal. www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3396 I suppose you decided to go down the more natural and wholesome route with your blueberry flavour. Would you care to make comment regarding the CraftBrewer product' date=' that is if you have an opinion about it. Thanks.[/quote'] I wasn't aware that Craftbrewer have a blueberry flavouring suitable in for use in brewing beer, but it doesn't surprise me that they do. They have a massive portfolio of product lines they cover. As far as the product goes, I'm unaware of its potency & dosage requirements. I'd flick Ross an email & ask him a little bit more about the product & disclose what sort of beer you would like to use it in. Craftbrewer Contacts Page. P.S. A1 links provided by Christina. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 G'day Lusty - just thought that you may be interested in one of CraftBrewers recipies where they list 2kg of fresh fruit in the secondary ferment. Blackberry Heffeweizen www.craftbrewer.com.au/brewing-pages.asp?NewsID=8 You will have to copy and paste the link if you're interested. I'm not sure how to paste an active link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/brewing-pages.asp?NewsID=8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Hi again Morrie. Thanks for the Blackberry Hefe recipe link, but to be honest, I'm not much of a fruit beer brewer, & consider myself more of a hop-a-holic! This particular brew using the fruit this time, was just a little venture away from a seasonal porter brew I've been doing for the last 3-4 years or so, that I just wanted to throw a different slant on this year. Hopefully Christina spots your post & link, as she has some interest in adding blackberry flavour into a Dark Ale based recipe. Coincidentally, I did spot your other post & was glad to read you have taken the plunge & setup a temp controlled brew fridge. This step alone will improve the quality of your beers 10 fold, & now enable you to brew properly fermented lager & pilsner style beers if you so wish. Good stuff! Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 I just finished bottling this brew & ended up with 26 longnecks, that I primed with one carb drop each. The blueberry flavour is definitely there, the subtle vanilla is there, the smoky character of the Porter recipe/yeast is there, but admit I couldn't detect anything notable from the Mosaic dry hop. No biggy though, as it's more about the blueberry influence anyway. I cold crashed the beer for the last 4 days, to hopefully compact any fruit floaties, & this appeared to work well, as the first pour off today was full of them, yet my last hydro sample had run fairly clear. I noted some tannin from the fruit skins & may wish I'd diluted the fruit syrup & strained this off before adding it to the fermenter, but I'm hoping some aging time may solve that issue. The taste is still very separated, & will need quite a few months before I reckon it'll all come together. In the right light, the colour is also more purple than blue. I didn't miss the whole bottling experience either. Back to kegging we go! I'll update down the track. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Lusty - do you use finnings when you cold crash? I guess what I am asking if there is any benefit in cold crashing alone without finnings? I am definitely interested on how the Blueberry turns out come taste time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaS1 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Hopefully Christina spots your post & link' date=' as she has some interest in adding blackberry flavour into a Dark Ale based recipe. Lusty.[/quote'] Hi Lusty. Just noticed your comment and took a look at the recipe Morrie provided. Interesting Morrie! Just a slight correction, it was black currants, not blackberries, that I tried in a Dark Ale base. But thank you for thinking of me Lusty; that was nice. Lusty, I have been doing a lot of reading about brewing with fruit in my cider and country wine-making research. FYI most recipes and articles I've seen say not to leave macerated fruit in the cider or wine for longer than five days, and seven days tops, and I imagine this would especially be true for fruit with a lot of tannins, like blueberries. Now ciders and country wines don't have dark roasted malt in them, competing with the fruit flavour, so YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Lusty doesn't use finings, he thinks they're a waste of time because it doesn't matter if the beer looks like pond sludge as long as it tastes ok. I can't say I agree with that, but each to their own. That said, there's probably not a lot of point using them in a dark beer like this, though. Something like isinglass would probably help drop out a bit more yeast than doing nothing, but it's neither here nor there. I can't imagine it would do a lot to the appearance; the lighter coloured styles obviously gain more from this type of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Just so I'm getting this straight Kelsey......Isinglass finnings will drop out yeast which should improve flavour? But what would crash chilling alone achieve without finnings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Finings are more about clarity than flavour improvement, although I have seen it stated on various websites that they can help with flavour stability and increase the shelf life before the beer starts to deteriorate, not that most of us would let them last that long anyway . I only started using isinglass when I began kegging, to drop more yeast out so there was less sludge in the keg. I had begun using Polyclar prior to this which removes chill haze - a much more likely source of cloudiness in home brewed beer than yeast, especially in bottles because the yeast drop out pretty quickly in those. Now I use both, isinglass goes in first to drop the yeast, then the Polyclar after 2-3 more days for the chill haze. I most likely will forgo the Polyclar on porters and stouts and just use the isinglass for the yeast but if the flavour stability thing is true then maybe I will use it. Crash chilling by itself without finings will still help drop out more yeast than if it was just left at fermentation temps. It also helps drop out other particulate matter such as hops if you have dry hopped, or in Lusty's case here, the blueberries. I crash chilled for a long time without finings before I got sick of the chill haze. They say you taste with your eyes - in my case that was/is certainly true. The flavour in hazy beer seems muddied to me, if it looks clearer the flavour seems more crisp and clean, and that's how I like it. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I have an unopened packet of Polyclar; I just haven't felt the need to use it yet. I am not as psychologically fragile as Kelsey so I can drink a slightly hazy beer without it ruining the taste It comes down to personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Appreciate your help Kelsey. I've been pasting a lot of it into word documents so I can reference it again at a later date and not ask the same questions over and over hopefully. In my case I am just going to crash chill only to see how the beer turns out. Some people that visit me actually like cloudy and hazy beer. One bloke actually insists when drinking a Coopers commercial pale ale that the bottle be placed horizontally on the table and rolled to mix the contents prior to drinking. I don't know if any of you blokes have ever heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hairy - I recently bought some Gage Roads Sleeping Giant IPA and it is advertised as unfiltered. It seemed pretty bloody cloudy/hazy to me but I thought it was an absolutely delicious beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hi Morrie. I am not as psychologically fragile as Kelsey so I can drink a slightly hazy beer without it ruining the taste +1 Lusty doesn't use finings' date=' he thinks they're a waste of time because it doesn't matter if the beer looks like pond sludge as long as it tastes ok. I can't say I agree with that, but each to their own. [/quote']I know Kelsey is just taking the mickey out of me here, but I certainly don't produce beers that "look like pond sludge". I actually do as much as I can without using finings to produce as clearer beer as I can. Finings strip flavour, particularly hop flavour (IMHO). I like hoppy beers, so finings aren't a friend of mine. Most pilsners & lagers are generally low hop influenced, & are presented best with high clarity. So I have less of an issue with using finings on them. On a big hoppy ale though, blasphemy! Some things you can do to improve clarity before considering the use of finings... If you are steeping/mashing grains, or using hops in a boil, then use some form of filter such as a fine weave strainer to strain the liquid away from the physical matter to reduce haze. If dry hopping consider containing the hops in a hop 'tea bag' or chux cloth. If you have the means, cold condition the beer while still in the fermenter in a fridge for as long as you can (within reason) as this will assist in dropping more haze causing physical matter out of suspension. Use a high flocculating yeast to ferment the beer. Yeasts with this attribute will drop from suspension far more easily & compact better than other less flocculent strains. High flocculating yeasts generally produce, "bright, clear beers without the need for filtration". If you are doing those things, & the beer still isn't clear enough for your liking, then perhaps look into using some form of kettle finings, beer finings, or post fermentation filtration to reach your desired level. As both Kelsey & Hairy have already said, it's a personal choice on whether to use them or not. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yeah I knew you'd see the funny side of that one Lusty. I won't turn my nose up at a beer just because of a bit of haze, I just prefer them without it. I have to admit I haven't noticed any real hop stripping in my beers since I started using finings. The hop influence is pretty much the same as it was before. However, this is only my experience and I don't doubt that others will have had a different experience to mine. Most of my ales are moderately hopped pale ales, so there should be enough in there to notice if they were diminished by the use of finings. Maybe the ones I use aren't as bad for it as I have heard gelatine to be. I stopped using gelatine because it made the yeast sediment all fluffy and easily disturbed which defeated the whole purpose of it in my mind. Whatever the case, they aren't a necessity for a good beer. I'm not saying everybody should be using finings or not using finings, experiment if you like but don't feel like you HAVE to use them. I brewed plenty of great tasting beers prior to experimenting with these things, I just figured since I had my recipes and processes pretty well down pat I would give them a try to see what happened. I was pleased with the results so I continue to use them. I find them an easy way to achieve the better clarity I enjoy without faffing about with filtering - if that was the only option I wouldn't bother. And yes definitely know about the rolling of the Coopers bottles to get the yeast all mixed in to the beer. Personally, not a fan, but I don't like drinking beer full of yeast anyway. It tastes like shit to me to be honest. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 You blokes really like taking the mickey out of one another. Its good to see some friendly banter here along with a sense of humor. Its also good to see such diverse opinions, and with respect to other brewers holding differing views. I don't have an issue drinking cloudy/hazy beer but that may change over time. For now its just going to be a bit of crash chilling without the finnings and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I can see how drinking beer clouded with yeast may not taste great. I brewed a beer with the Wyeast 2565 Kolsch yeast, and the bottles took forever to clear, even when in the fridge. I could definitely notice a difference in flavour between the bottles chilled for a couple of days and the bottles chilled for a couple of weeks. In this instance the flavour difference also correlated with a clarity difference. However, for some styles the inverse applies. For example, I also love the flavour the yeast brings to a nice cloudy Bavarian hefe and the famous Heady Topper is intentionally cloudy to preserve the hop flavour. In my experience, if I leave a hefe in the fridge so long that it clears up, to me it doesn't taste nearly as good. As for chill haze, I don't think that affects the flavour of the beer. I have been using Brewbrite in the kettle to take care of it and have been getting clearer beer as a result, but I don't think it does much at all on the taste front. In my experience, time in the FV and lowering the temperature does help clarify the beer. I'm guessing it's yeast and particulates dropping out slowly over time. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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