New Labels & New Thomas Cooper Range

[Graculus]

Having read the two posts above I think I'm going to steer clear of the new cans for a while.

I was going to try the new stout when it's available (or is it and I missed the announcement?) but don't think I'll bother now.

 

To be honest I was quite happy with the old range.

 

Did the two of you get any replies from Coopers?

[Frosty Chop]

Hi Frosty.

 

I forwarded my views to Coopers via email (about a month or so back) as I didn't wish to appear negative on the open forum about the new kit.

 

I had personally hoped the new Bootmakers Pale Ale kit would encompass some obvious cascade tones that were evident in the now discontinued TC Traditional Draught kit' date=' & approach something resembling the style of the Craft 1.3kg North West Pale Ale kit so that us full volume (23 litre) brewers have something comparable we can brew without necessarily having to hop it up a great deal.

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.[/size']

 

G'day Lusty,

 

Yeah I think I was expecting more from it, something along the lines of what you mention would be great. If I'm going to need to fiddle with the Bootmaker to make it into something I guess it'll be back to doing what works for me with the APA kit.

 

I like the fact you can pretty much openly say what you want on this forum with regard to any brewing product and supplier without getting come down on. I also reply emailed Coopers when they generously offered this free kit to say that I would give an honest opinion of it on the forum.

 

I'll give it another taste in a couple of weeks and see how it's coming along.

 

Frosty.

[thirstybrewer]

Hey guys

 

Thought I would finally make good on my promised review

 

Coopers very nicely donated me a sparkling ale can and 1.5kg of dme

 

The brewing process

 

I put the beer down on 1 February. Brewed it to 23 litres. I followed the recipe except that I used a 1ltr starter made from recultured coopers commercial ale yeast.

 

Brewed at 19.4 degrees c in the beer fridge.

 

Kegged 20 litres on the 14th of February and bottled the rest.

 

Waited 2 week and cracked the first bottle on the 27th.

Review

 

Overall I think it's a decent beer. I would recommend anyone looking to emulate a coopers sparkling ale try this kit.

 

The previous coopers sa kit I always found cloyingly sweet. This one didn't seem to have that (maybe less malt??? Dunno).

 

Also, as it was only dme + the can, the brewing day seemed a little easier.

 

I would brew this again when I'm looking for a coopers sparkling to keep as a house beer on tap. Next time though I think I'll brew it a little warmer as (having compared it to a commercial version of the csa) it was lacking the ester profile somewhat.

 

All in all, good kit and is close to the csa commercial version. Go out a buy it if you like the original and want to brew it at home.

 

[LazyDave]

Coopers have come to the rescue and replaced my brews, Frank and Abby at the store were more than good about it.

 

I don't enjoy complaining, but when I'm convinced I'm right, I have to stick up for myself.

 

Would have been much nicer for someone to step in, offer to replace the brews, and thank me for bringing a potential problem to their attention, and that would have been end of.

 

End of the day, I was more concerned for Coopers than I was about a couple of FV chuck-outs.

 

Now I may look forward to trying these new beasties :)

[Frosty Chop]

Coopers have come to the rescue and replaced my brews' date=' Frank and Abby at the store were more than good about it.

 

[/quote']

 

Wow that's pretty nice of them, keep us posted on how the new ones turn out.

[Morrie]

LavyDave - surely they must have offered you some sort of an explanation as to why the failures?

 

Did you get a direct replacement....if you did then you may experience the same problems again. Reading between the lines on this forum the problem could be with the yeast supplied. I had a shockingly slow start up with my TC Bootmaker and only managed to pull through it.

 

I haven't followed your story but I would be interested in your history of the failed brew so far....brew temps, how long in FV.... etc .

[Beerlust]

As people may know' date=' I've experienced dead yeast with the new range, as also has my neighbour, we have now thrown out 4 new brews between us.

 

After playing catch up the past 3 weeks and brewing 3 successful brews using the old Pale Ale, Uk Bitter and Real Ale, I decided to brave the Brew A IPA. (See profile pic for day 4 of this brew)

 

Yep, it's dead as a dodo - again, just a thin layer of hop, not a jot of activity.

 

Coopers don't seem to care, however I would at least like to know why the freebies that were sent out contained 2 yeast sachets. This question has been asked by others but not answered. There's only one sachet in the purchased cans. I gotta wonder why they would send 2 packs? Maybe cos they know a dodgy batch of yeast got sent out?

 

My neighbour didn't risk the next one and added old UK bitter yeast to the Innkeepers just to ensure it worked, desperate stuff, and still no official recognition of these problems.[/quote']

I have already raised a concern regarding the use of a hot melt glue that now adheres the yeast sachets to the top of the kit tin as being a possible risk to the yeast viability in the sachet. The yeast sachets that come with the Coopers kits always used to be loose between the tin lid & the crack seal above it.

 

If the sachets are placed on top of this hot melt glue soon after the hot melt glue is applied to the tin lid, it will be at a very high temperature enough to kill the yeast inside the sachet.

 

I too have had no response from Coopers regarding this new packaging practice. Maybe there is some direct link between what I noticed & your yeast related problems?

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Morrie]

I bought some TC Bootmaker cans and then discovered that many brewers were having issues of dead brews in the TC range. Consequently I tried to contact Coopers Brewing support on their online web inquiry form for a response about this problem as I was concerned the same may occur with me.

 

Coopers never responded back to me regarding my concerns. So from now on when I put down a TC series I have to throw away the yeast and supply a third party yeast at my expense. The thing is if Coopers never offer some sort of explanation or response, how will anyone know if they've fixed the bloody problem.

 

SO FAR ONLY SILENCE FROM COOPERS ON THIS ISSUE.

[Beeblebrox]

I bought some TC Bootmaker cans and then discovered that many brewers were having issues of dead brews in the TC range. Consequently I tried to contact Coopers Brewing support on their online web inquiry form for a response about this problem as I was concerned the same may occur with me.

 

Coopers never responded back to me regarding my concerns. So from now on when I put down a TC series I have to throw away the yeast and supply a third party yeast at my expense. The thing is if Coopers never offer some sort of explanation or response' date=' how will anyone know if they've fixed the bloody problem.

 

SO FAR ONLY SILENCE FROM COOPERS ON THIS ISSUE.[/quote']

 

I got my "free" Bootmaker can & stuff - having had to chase them up for the LDM!- & of course I was one of the ones that had a brew fail/infection.

 

I doubt I would have had an infection problem if the yeast had been viable.

 

I can take losing a batch due to problems beyond my control, & can take that a freeby fails, as I'm not so out of pocket; but I find it a bit rich that Coopers won't acknowledge the problem.

 

If Coopers were after our feedback as the cost of a "free" trial of their new products, they should take our feedback on board, not duck down, cover their ears, & hope the problem will resolve itself.

 

I've since brewed a couple of batches with no problem, so I know it wasn't a badly infected FV...

 

If only all the staff at Coopers were as diligent, helpful, & honest as PB2!?

[Morrie]

Beeblebrox - yes you are right in saying that if the brewers that were involved in the free trial packs have given honest feedback to Coopers then Coopers should have the decency to respond to those concerns raised.

 

The thing is....... how will I ever know when its time to stop throwing Coopers yeast satchels into the rubbish bin and stop buying my own if Coopers won't communicate with their customers?

 

SO FAR ONLY SILENCE FROM COOPERS ON THIS ISSUE

[Beeblebrox]

Beeblebrox - yes you are right in saying that if the brewers that were involved in the free trial packs have given honest feedback to Coopers then Coopers should have the decency to respond to those concerns raised.

 

The thing is....... how will I ever know when its time to stop throwing Coopers yeast satchels into the rubbish bin and stop buying my own if Coopers won't communicate with their customers?

 

SO FAR ONLY SILENCE FROM COOPERS ON THIS ISSUE

 

Exactly right Morrie.

It's clearly not good enough, but in the meantime, the only viable action if using the new brew cans is to purchase your own yeast, or use a starter.

 

It's not worth the risk of losing a batch of beer using the included yeast if it's still uncertain how viable it is.

 

Coopers owe it us & other customers to properly investigate this problem, advise customers of it, & resolve it.

 

Giving away a few free cans etc as consolation to some doesn't resolve the fact we've lost confidence in the product.

 

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the ingredients in the cans themselves, (though there have been mixed reviews - which I put down to people adjusting to different flavours in new products) but surely Coopers can figure out what the problem is with the yeast & fix it, or change the yeast that comes with the cans.

 

Sure it may change the flavour a bit, but that's got to be better than selling cans with dud yeast, resulting in disappointing & losing customers.

 

Coopers didn't get to be so big in home brew products by selling inferior products, so it's not like we're expecting anything more than Coopers maintaining the quality standards we've come to expect from them!

 

Remaining silent on the issue only makes us frustrated & makes us question if it's worth remaining faithful to an otherwise trusted brand.

[Morrie]

This may sound like a whinge or minor detail to some ...........but when my last 6 cans arrived in the post every can had been severely dented on at least 2 sides. The cans looked like they had been chucked from a great height and had landed on one another. There was no evidence of rough handling in the post as the outer carton had not received any impacts.

 

I like to recycle these tins and I find they can be handy for all sorts of things from germinating mango plants in to washing car parts in. The severely dented state of these cans have rendered them unusable again. Not only that....... but it made it difficult to scrape out the contents into the FV. I use one of those large flat type home brew stirrers to scrape every last drop of extract out of the can.

 

I did not provide any feedback to Coopers given my previous response from them of Zero, Zilch, Zip and Nada via the web form. Incidentally the web form states a guaranteed response within 2 days.

[Beeblebrox]

I've noticed the same with the last few orders from the online store, as well as the Bootmaker.

I have to wonder if the good quality cans go to the LHBS & the damaged stock is just offloaded via the online store?

I get that on occasion you may get a dented can, & that it has no impact on the quality of what's inside, but if as seems to be the case, this is happening all too frequently, it makes one wonder about quality control in either the warehouse or the factory.

We've all come to expect better than this from Coopers, & I hope this is something that they will look into, before it gets so bad that we have no option than to purchase from other manufacturers.

[Otto Von Blotto]

From reading the last few posts it certainly sounds like a pretty piss poor effort on Coopers part to address the concerns of blokes who have been having issues with the yeast, in particular. Whether it is due to Lusty's suggestion of the hot melt glue killing some of the yeast (which is entirely possible), or just a crappy strain of yeast, or whatever it is, they need to get it sorted ASAP, not bury their heads in the sand about like it would appear is happening.

 

As for throwing the yeast away Morrie, no need for that - if you do a hop boil simply throw the yeast into the boil. It will obviously be killed, but this dead yeast acts as a bit of nutrient for the yeast you'll be using to ferment the batch.

 

Also, rather than scraping out the extract simply fill the can up with boiling water and leave it sit for 10 mins or so, it'll melt off all the extract and then you can just pour it all in.

 

If you ever get to the point of having different sized erlenmeyer flasks and a magnetic stirrer for making yeast starters, these are a great way of not only determining yeast viability and growing more cells, but also harvesting yeast for re-use later. I just build mine bigger than needed and when they've fermented out I stir it all up again and tip some of the mixed up starter into a Mason jar which then lives in the fridge until the next time. I'm up to about the 6th or 7th re-use of a US-05 packet I bought last year - that's a saving of around $35 over those brews just on yeast.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

I'm betting the concerns that have been raised regarding the yeast(s) provided with the new TC packaged kits are being looked into. The fact we haven't had a response yet, may be because the issue is far more complex to investigate the cause of, than any of us realize.

 

If indeed there is found to be a problem with the viability of the yeast attached to the new kits, I'm sure Coopers will inform us of what we need to know when they themselves have investigated it thoroughly.

 

In the meantime RDWHAHB!

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

[Morrie]

Mr OVB

As for throwing the yeast away Morrie, no need for that - if you do a hop boil simply throw the yeast into the boil. It will obviously be killed, but this dead yeast acts as a bit of nutrient for the yeast you'll be using to ferment the batch.

 

Also, rather than scraping out the extract simply fill the can up with boiling water and leave it sit for 10 mins or so, it'll melt off all the extract and then you can just pour it all in.

 

Appreciate your suggestions here Kelsey.......I'll definitely be doing this.

 

 

[Morrie]

Lusty

 

I'm betting the concerns that have been raised regarding the yeast(s) provided with the new TC packaged kits are being looked into. The fact we haven't had a response yet, may be because the issue is far more complex to investigate the cause of, than any of us realize.

 

A simple "we are looking into it" would suffice at this stage. At least it would let us know......yes, they have acknowledged there is a problem and..... yes, that they are currently working through it. The way it is now nobody knows Jack Shit.

[Beeblebrox]

Being realistic about this issue, as stated previously, if I buy any more of the TC range I'll be purchasing yeast from my LHBS, just to be sure I can get a decent brew.

 

I don't have any issue about the actual brew cans & other Coopers products, but whilst the yeast remains under a cloud, better to spend a few dollars for yeast than end up with a dud batch.

 

Usually if I spend $40 or more at my LHBS, or if I'm making a brew that others have given feedback about to the LHBS, commenting that there is a better yeast to use than the one with the can, I get a free pack of yeast with my purchase anyway, so no real issue there.

Just a shame that it seems the TC range is reasonably good but is accompanied with questionable yeast.

 

Hopefully as stated, Coopers are looking into the issue & will resolve it in time, but a bit of feedback from Coopers about this issue would be appreciated by most users of these products.

[PB2]

YES Morrie, we should have got back to you in good time...

Do you have the link for the online inquiry form that you used? I'd like to pass it on to our online store people.

Also, you might like to email customer service directly with this issue and any other thing that may arise in the future:

customerservice@coopers.com.au

 

 

[Morrie]

PB2:

 

YES Morrie, we should have got back to you in good time…

Do you have the link for the online inquiry form that you used? I'd like to pass it on to our online store people.

Also, you might like to email customer service directly with this issue and any other thing that may arise in the future:

customerservice@coopers.com.au

 

 

 

G'day PB2 - I appreciate your concern and response. This is the link that I used.

http://store.coopers.com.au/contact-us/

 

I haven't got a copy of the text that I sent. I was bringing to Cooper's attention the fact that I had purchased some TC Bootmaker Pale Ale cans and that I had later read about all the failed/dead TC range brews reported here on this forum. I was basically asking for Cooper's explanation and a response on this as I was wanting to put down this brew pronto.

 

As you have read on here I have received no correspondence from Cooper to date. I did put down the Bootmaker, the start up was extremely slow even with 2 packets of the coopers yeast supplied (one from another can) ......hardly any action in the FV after 52 hours.........just looked like dead/inactive yeast floating around on top and no sign of any krausen. If it wasn't for Mr O.V. Blotto who convinced me to persevere I would probably have chucked it all down the drain as I believe many others have. I maybe new on this forum but I have been brewing for many years and have NEVER seen such a poor brew start up. Maybe I just got lucky and others may have had completely dead yeasts.

 

PB2 ....what about Lusty who I believe has also contacted Coopers and suggested the hot glue used to stick the yeast on the TC cans may be an issue and has been ignored to date?

 

I think the best thing that can be done now is for you to recommend that customer support investigates this complete thread and the issues contained therein. They then contact the people via email who have had issues and try and get as much information from them to work through this problem. (I just can't believe that Coopers haven't known about this issue now for quite some time....especially after replacing some brew cans to customers.) They then get back to you and then you convey this information to all of us. It is simply not just between me and Coopers....it involves many of us.

 

Here is the text directly from the web contact form: Or complete the online enquiry form below and we'll be in contact within 2 business days.

 

Coopers also need to investigate why we are getting so many damaged cans in the mail. No external carton damage, just the internal cans. Are these cans being deliberately dented so we can't on sell them? I had 3 Bootmaker cans and 3 LME cans all dented in by about 40 to 50mm on both sides of the can. Makes it difficult to get the contents out of them easily and renders the tins useless for any further use around the home or workshop.

 

The thing is PB2 I went through the web inquiry form to voice my concerns privately with Coopers so as to not propagate any further adverse publicity about the dead brews on this forum and so far only silence from Coopers.

 

 

[Anzacpaul]

Funny, my last online order had 2 dented cans in an undamaged box as well.

[LazyDave]

Hi Morrie, some late answers to your questions...

 

Not much point going into brewing setup, I keep things simple and the same consistently, I brew an FV once every 6 days for the last 10 years, I've had maybe 15-20 contaminated brews, but never a failed start up (I use Coopers 98% of the time). I had a failed startup with the Bootmaker, then 3 successful older can brews followed by another failed startup with the Brew A IPA. Therefore I was immediately alerted to a problem.

 

I bought my brews online, so I only got the glued pack of yeast, the people that got the freebies from this thread were sent 2 packs of yeast - no explanation for that has been given yet.

I wrote to Coopers via the email PB2 stated above, and also through the website, I imagine the former email worked.

 

When I received my first new brews I was surprised to encounter the glued yeast. At first I thought it was because we finally had two ended cans that we could open both ends, and no need to store them upside down anymore, however why use the same plastic cap system if you glue the yeast? I assume those plastic caps were designed to allow a yeast packet to reside in the lid without glue, so that would suggest the glue problem had been identified before - to the point where a special plastic cap was required to secure it, and cans needed to be stored upside down (because you could only open them from the bottom), which was always a bit weird.

 

If I was a detective, I'd say Coopers wanted to get away from the expensive plastic rip cap, so they glued the yeast and expected to put a plain cap on the tins. I'd say that idea turned out too expensive or they were already set up for the rip cap, so they reverted back to the rip cap. This meant the glue was no longer required anymore, but it had been put into the process so they went with it. (This may all have been worked out 20 years ago about the glue affecting the yeast which is why the rip cap was invented).

 

Therefore someone screwed up, didn't do their homework, and is hiding under the bedsheets.

 

We're supposed to be a family, mistakes are ok, just admit them and be forgiven.

 

PS: I have been ordering online for 6-7 years, often cans are dented, once or twice they have been a real pain to open, but dents are quite common, so I'd agree with the theory that dented cans get sent for online orders. I've opened liquid malt cans that had a bit of bacteria/mold in the corner of them - it's possible air had got through, but you just sterilise with boiling water and suck it up.

 

 

[LazyDave]

Oh and this might be a good spot to give my opinion on the new style cans.

 

First I don't understand the 'dumbed down' design that makes it look like the cheapest on the shelf, when it is one of the most expensive you will find in a HBS. The old cans had a real style about them and looked worth the money. They were also instantly recognisable by the glut of independant colouring of the label, now I have to read each one to double check I have the one I want.

 

I assume there's some major European export expansion going on judging by the fact the back label is a mass of country flags and almost irrelevant info, whereas the actual instructions for the brewing are on the inside of the label. After the usual fight to remove the label, I noticed perforations designed to rip the label off conveniently, but it wasn't, and scissors won the day, after the usual trying not to cut my fingers off in the process. And I shall forever miss my Coopers brewing label which was the warm fuzzy of the entire brew process. I still have hundreds of them with brewing records for future reference. Alas now I have to tear the label off, (whilst I still have some fingers), and write on it very quickly before my pen gives up on the label wax.

 

It's the simple things that make the difference.

 

All in all, whoever designed these things must have been a clear winner in the lowest quote category, and the image of Coopers has gone down about 5 pegs.

 

And as for replacing an entire range of brews, well I've spent years of experimentation learning which brews work for me, which don't. Even to the point of learning how the ones that don't can be made to work with the right sugar and hop additions. Now I have to start all over again, making each one naked, working out what it may need, and experimenting for 4 or 5 brews before I get it suited to me. I sincerely hope I need do nothing, since I am now paying 4-5 bucks more for the privilege of all this extra homework.

 

And as for no more basic IPA - (scream loudly)

 

[Morrie]

G'day LazyDave - Sorry to hear that you are another one that has suffered the dead brew syndrome of the latest Thomas Coopers series of kits and getting the dented cans as well.

 

My thoughts are the same as yours regarding the new can packaging. Unfortunately everything we buy now seems to have the quality downgraded somewhat with ever new edition that comes out. Coopers have certainly gone this way in my view. I call it a race to the bottom. Some posters have suggested that is the way our commercial beers have become and I agree as they are as some have suggested just "mega-swill"

 

Hopefully the contents inside the Coopers cans haven't suffered this race to the bottom as well.

Will it only be a matter of time now before the Coopers cans are made in China???? .......Or are they already made in China? I'm not sure where they are actually made and the storage depot for the Coopers online ordering being in Brisbane makes me wonder about his. I actually asked Coopers this question in my online enquiry that never ever got a reply.

 

Time will tell for me regarding contents quality but they have clearly got an issue with dead brews at the moment and nobody at Coopers is acknowledging this. I agree with what others are suggesting that the most likely cause of the problem lies within the yeast supplied. Either they have a bad batch of yeast or as has been suggested the high temperature of the glue to attach the sachet to the can maybe affecting the viability of the yeast.

 

I did as PB2 suggested and sent a email to: customerservice@coopers.com.au

 

So far I have not received any response from Coopers Customer Service but that email was only sent 24 hrs ago. If I do receive any communication from them I will keep posters informed on this forum as I think many are interested to see what transpires.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Yes, definitely interested to see how this all pans out. I don't use Coopers kits or yeasts or anything these days so I am not one of those who are having issues but this is a friendly forum and the regulars are all pretty cool, so I've stuck around. Will be following this thread with interest.