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Beervis

Cooper's Pale ale - tips?

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Hey Brewers,

 

Just taste testing my first attempt at the coopers pale ale kit - can I get some impressions, what you guys would rate it? I'm working my way through the different kits trying to find some staples. So far I've had great results with the sparkling and the lager and mixed with the IPA...

 

But this pale ale is just bad. It fermented out fine, sanitising was fine, but didn't taste that great when I did the hydrometer readings and I've ended up with a bland, flat brew. I'm testing it early, as in, it needs a couple more weeks conditioning, but I've done this with all my other brews and they've been fine.

 

Only thing I can think I might've done wrong was to leave it in the fermenter at a highish (Brisbane :P) ambient temp for too long - but to be honest I'm not sure it's infected.

 

Any reason 2 carbonation drops per tallie would be giving me a flat beer? I used the kit + kit yeast + brew enhancer 2, 2 weeks at around 22/24 degrees.

 

beervis

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What temps have the bottles been stored at and how long for? Only other reason they'd be flat is that the crown seals aren't sealed properly on the bottles.

 

Leaving it in the FV at ambient temps wouldn't cause any issues unless they were way high, it's the first few days of the fermentation that really set most of the final flavours in place.

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Hi Beervis.

 

Given the brews you've done so far, I'm not entirely sure what your expectations were leading into this brew, particularly if coming off the back of brewing a very forward flavoured brew like the Coopers IPA kit.

 

Your quoted known ferment temperatures will produce an ester profile in the end beer, & if there were periods early on in the fermentation cycle that were higher than those quoted, the fusal alcohol esters will certainly be more pronounced in the final beer with a recipe like this.

 

You've all but admitted the beer has not been in the bottle long enough to be suitably carbonated, so I would agree with your current view to leave them to condition for another couple of weeks @ temperatures above 18°C.

 

My view is the carbonation will improve, but the ester profile will likely remain due to the temperature you have fermented this brew at in combination with the recipe brewed.

 

For some people an ester presence is an unwanted aroma in their beers, so to avoid this in future, maintain your ale brew fermentations under 20°C & you will greatly reduce the ability of these yeast derived fermentation flavours to develop in your beers. wink

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

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Thanks for that guys,

 

I'm using PET bottles so I guess it's possible that the lids weren't tight enough/and or they're too old - but only got a few brews out of them so far so I doubt that's the problem. They've been stored around 22 degrees (colder at night) in a dark spot for 10 days. Early on I know, but I normally test one after about that long out of curiosity.

 

I don't have the gear at the moment to keep the temps as low (and as consistent) as you suggest Lusty, but after I move house in the next few months I'm thinking of investing in an old bar fridge, or some fancy pants stainless steel kit with a temperature modulating thingo I saw on cleverbrewing.com.au.

 

Lusty, would you say that an ester presence is something along the lines of 'that homebrew taste' that gets mentioned so often? I do find with most of my brews, even though I quite like them, there's always some niggling background flavours that I put down to my she'll be right brewing techniques. I'm wondering if those fusal alcohol esters are the culprit.

 

Anyhow when you're getting beer for 90 cents a tallie it's kinda hard to complain. Maybe I can corner the market in 'quite alcoholic malt flavoured water'

 

B

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Lusty' date=' would you say that an ester presence is something along the lines of 'that homebrew taste' that gets mentioned so often? I do find with most of my brews, even though I quite like them, there's always some niggling background flavours that I put down to my she'll be right brewing techniques. I'm wondering if those fusal alcohol esters are the culprit.

 

Anyhow when you're getting beer for 90 cents a tallie it's kinda hard to complain. Maybe I can corner the market in 'quite alcoholic malt flavoured water'.[/quote']

Firstly, don't settle for ordinary beer just because you home brew. With a little patience & learning you can quickly be producing beers rivaling & exceeding commercial varieties. wink

 

For new brewers starting out in home brewing, ferment temperature control is not high on the agenda & is likely to be the cause of the off flavour you are eluding to here. The best way to find out if that is the unwanted flavour you can taste is to control your ferment temperature down at a suitable ferment temperature that is known to produce a clean flavour free of ester influences.

The most commonly accepted temperature for ale brewing that will do this for you is at approx. 18°C. You must maintain this temperature for at least the first 4-5 days of primary fermentation if you wish to avoid the ester production by the yeast.

 

Oddly enough, the commercial version of Coopers Pale Ale uses a yeast that when fermented @ 21-24°C produces a lovely enjoyable ester (smelling like banana) that is the signature aroma/flavour of the commercial Coopers Pale Ale. cool

 

Yeast strains are very particular to producing certain outcomes at certain temperatures & fluctuating away from their recommended primary fermentation temperature zone can, & often does produce undesired outcomes in your final beer.

 

PB2's Beer Triangle:

 

Thorough Sanitation + Fresh Ingredients + Appropriate Ferment Temp = QUALITY BEER

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.

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Thanks Lusty,

 

I've found that I'm learning new things with every brew. I always thought the temperature might be more important than I was giving it credit for.

 

Anyhow I've stuck with this tallie just to avoid tipping it out and apart from the lack of carbonation it does have a flavour that grows on you. I guess Cooper's Pale Ale doesn't have the pronounced hoppyness that is characteristic of more recent (recipe) craft Pale Ale's that are all the rage these days, so with that in mind I feel like the carbonation is the main culprit with this brew. The brew enhancer 2 is an improvement though, I'm enjoying the lingering malt flavours missing from the lager I brewed.

 

I'm looking forward to experimenting again with a more controlled temp.

 

 

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You sound like a perfect candidate for more hops my friend - to me, the pale ale (and most cans) without extra hops is boring!!!

 

Temp control is always a good thing but finding hops flavours you like and adding them to your brews can make up for heaps of things. I'm currently in the process of ordering 1kg of Citra as I've now settled on a pale ale recipe I like and this is the hop flavour that sets it off and will be brewing it regularly.

 

Nothing wrong with being the king of 90c Malt Beverages either - if you're in this for cheap beer no shame in that at all - if you like it, brew it!!! (if you want better and can do it, do it)

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Hey man, I only brew the coopers kits with what they recommend (brew enhancer etc), basically because I get a carton for $10 as an end result.

 

I've done 20 batches and pretty much tried all the coopers range.

 

With the APA I find 10 days in the FV and I've had wide ranges of temperature, mainly due to living in Melbourne. As long as it's 21°c or above, I take a FG reading on day 10 and bottle that day. Then I don't crack a bottle until day 50 of it been in a bottle.

 

The result? A coopers pale ale between 4.4/ 4.6%, tasting just as good as the bought stuff! Yes it's a longer process, but if your like me and don't want to pay $50 a carton, it's worth the wait

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You'll be blown away if you ever decide to brew the kits with something other than the recommendations, i.e. adding hops and grains, ditching brew enhancers etc. devil

 

Anyway, yes the Coopers pale ale isn't a particularly hoppy beer like the American pale ales. It seems to get a lot of its flavour from esters produced by the yeast. This is the main reason I don't particularly like it that much - I prefer the fruitiness to come from hops rather than esters.

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You'll be blown away if you ever decide to brew the kits with something other than the recommendations' date=' i.e. adding hops and grains, ditching brew enhancers etc. [img']devil[/img]

 

This ^ is the way to go. I've found the difference to be amazing and now only use malt, liquid or dry, with some steeped pale crystal grain and hops usually Cascade with the the APA kit. I highly recommend taking those extra steps to make it thoroughly delicious.

 

Anyway' date=' yes the Coopers pale ale isn't a particularly hoppy beer like the American pale ales. It seems to get a lot of its flavour from esters produced by the yeast. This is the main reason I don't particularly like it that much - I prefer the fruitiness to come from hops rather than esters.

[/quote']

 

I'm not a fan of that ester flavor either and I've found fermenting the APA kit <20 degrees C with US-05 yeast seems to avoid it completely.

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