Ever watched one of those boring YouTube home-brewing tutorials?

[John E Miller]

Your videos are the best 

[King Ruddager]

It is priming sugar, yes, and I put it in mid-way so that it doesn't all go straight into the tap and sit there, not because of temperature issues. Even if it did kill yeast there's still plenty more coming through.

[YeastyBoy]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:59 PM, King Ruddager said:

 

Pitching my reused Pale Ale Yeast (SO4) into my next batch being the Oz Pale Ale into the FV Sunday. Should be a blessed brew.

My LHBS is not going to be happy, yeast sales will plummet...etc

Will post up how it went. Keep them coming King Rudd.

Cheers

[King Ruddager]

 

[Thirsty Jim]

These are great fun, instructive and sort of inspirational.  

I am always encouraged to take the next step after watching one of Rudd's vids.   I always leave them thinking 'I could do that...why don't I do that'.   

Great work.

[King Ruddager]

Once again, that's exactly what I'm shooting for. Dispelling all the complicated guff and encouraging people to just have a go. 

[YeastyBoy]

Worked a treat, blessed is my Sunday brew. My FV with Oz Pale Ale was off & running within 3 hours. Correction it was a US05 and have another jar to toss yet in the next brew. Bonus.

Quick question, how many times can you reuse yeast until you should go back to the packet to ensure the yeast is true?

Thanks

[Otto Von Blotto]

As many times as it takes to throw crappy flavors. US-05 I found about 7 generations would be a safe level. It started getting a bit phenolic after that.

[YeastyBoy]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

As many times as it takes to throw crappy flavors. US-05 I found about 7 generations would be a safe level. It started getting a bit phenolic after that.

Thanks OVB,

Thought there would be general guide for the Home Brewer. My LHBS is gunna hurt.

Cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

They're all different I find. Liquid strains I've taken past 15 reuses and they still haven't gone funky.

Bear in mind I'm harvesting from starters, rather than fermenter trub. I don't know if it makes a difference or what difference it might make to how many generations you can go to before it drifts too far, compared to the starter method.

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

I have Wyeast Budvar well over 10 and a belgian yeast 1214 well over 10 as well. A belle saison which must be in the early 10s as well. They've have also been done with an overmake of a starter and keeping some as Kelsey does. If i harvest slurry then i usually only pitch it once. The beers have not changed taste wise but the floculation characteristics definitely have for the Budvar. It is good anyway but its dropping quicker for the last few pilsner batches i did.

I think ride it all the way till you get a nasty or little off one. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I went about 15 with 2001 and 1469. Decided to retire them than risk a crappy batch. Also noticed the flocculation improved after about 3 generations.

[Beerlust]

2 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I went about 15 with 2001 and 1469. Decided to retire them than risk a crappy batch. Also noticed the flocculation improved after about 3 generations.

I've often wondered why you did/do this. Your practices for yeast re-cultivation are excellent Kelsey & your ability to track cell counts is very rare for a home brewer. I think if there was anything wrong with those practices it would surface well before 15 generations had past.

The reason I mention it, is PB2 has maintained a hybrid strain (of sorts) of the CCA yeast for many years & he's not mentioned any problems with doing that. Also the commercial labs re-culture over & over again, just on a larger scale. Your practices seem sound, & credit to you.

If I could legitimately maintain a strain for 10 generations, I doubt I'd buy that strain again unless it failed.

Cheers & good brewing,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I guess there's always the chance of drift. It's different at home obviously to being in a lab, where it's all done in a completely sterile environment. I believe they incorporate acid washing as well, something I don't do. They'd have the knowledge and equipment to keep strains as pure as possible. 

At the end of the day though, I simply don't want a repeat of that awful batch that was a result of the US-05 being reused too many times. I drank it all anyway but I didn't really enjoy it all that much. And I still save a truckload on yeast, 15-16 reuses lasts about 2-2.5 years. 

[Beerlust]

8 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

At the end of the day though, I simply don't want a repeat of that awful batch that was a result of the US-05 being reused too many times.

Something different happened in the processing of your yeast prior to this batch I reckon. What?.....only you would know. I don't think you had the stain testing then that you do now either.

If it was "drift", I reckon you would notice it in previous batches before a downright horrible one occurred.

Your amount of reuse is still highly commendable, & something I'm aiming for eventually. 

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Nothing was different about the process, probably just got unlucky, maybe something snuck in during a harvest or something. The previous batch did exhibit a small amount of this flavor but nothing like the really bad one did. The following batch was done with a fresh pack and was fine though.

[Beerlust]

10 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

Nothing was different about the process, probably just got unlucky, maybe something snuck in during a harvest or something.

Yeah probably.

10 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

...The previous batch did exhibit a small amount of this flavor but nothing like the really bad one did. 

So you had actually picked up a small taint on the previous brew. That's probably where you should have stopped. The mutation had likely started in that batch & when you put the yeast through the next starter & consequential full brew the mutation obviously took over.

Remember that dodgy tap (or bung?) you had on a cube a while back? Were these US-05 batches through that period?

Cheers,

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I should have, but didn't

It would have started in the starter used in that batch with the minor taint. That one was the 8th reuse, so I decided if I used 05 again I'd stop at 7. Liquid strains seem to last through more reuse for some reason.

I can't remember whether it was around the same time or not, however that cube was on its first use when it blew up, and it was obvious acetobacter. Nothing like the awful phenolic crap in that beer. I haven't had any issues with bungs or taps since then. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Otto Von Blotto

[porschemad911]

On 11/27/2018 at 8:22 PM, Otto Von Blotto said:

That one was the 8th reuse, so I decided if I used 05 again I'd stop at 7.

Hey Kelsey,

I suspect that number would vary. Now that you know what happens in subsequent batches after picking up on a very slight off flavour ... why not wait until you detect that? Then fore-armed with experience, don't use any yeast harvested from the same starter.

Cheers,

John

[Otto Von Blotto]

You're probably right that it would vary. It's just a really crap flavor. I have thought about that though, it's the reason why I replaced the 1469 culture recently. The red ale on tap is the last batch done with the old one, and while it tastes and smells fine now, it did have a slight banana aroma to it when it was at FG so I didn't want to push it any further in case that got worse on subsequent batches. 

[King Ruddager]

 

[Beer Baron]

’Whisk’ of getting bad efficiency!!

[Naughty Corner Brewing]

So was that the first or second lifting of the grain bag? 

[King Ruddager]

First and only - the incident you're hanging out for is in my stout video, coming soon to a streaming service near you 

[King Ruddager]