European Lager with a Pils twist

[headmaster]

Well the gravity was no lower, still 1011 so began the lagering process. Had another APA tonight, bloody enjoyable. Actually noticed the faintest whiff of that eggy smell,probably the lager yeast in the ale/lager yeast blend that it comes with in the coopers kit, plus the fact that this one was brewed at 16c

[headmaster]

 

Next time I might give the http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/ a go.

 

 

works well!!!

 

Thanks for that Ben, keen to hear this.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Well the gravity was no lower' date=' still 1011 so began the lagering process. [/quote']

 

Fair call, I'd say it's done. As I said in an earlier post, the mashing conditions for producing the malt extracts are unknown. In my full grain recipes I can influence the FG by mashing at a certain temperature. I mash lower for lagers because I like them to finish with low SGs

[headmaster]

I wish I could try some all grain brewing, but with three young kids, no hope of getting that past SWMBO..

 

The LDME I used for this lager, was 500G of the coopers brand, and 1kg of Mangrove Jacks LDME.

 

Oddly the colour between the two was quite different, the coopers one very light in colour, like beige and the Mangrove Jacks was more cream/light yellow, looked less refined actually. It definitely was labelled LDME.

 

Took some of my brew no 002 the APA I've mentioned, to a birthday party on the weekend, my dad and brothers were amazed. Even after only 2 weeks in the bottle, this stuff is light years ahead of what we used to brew back in the 90's and also my first brew just after xmas, the OS lager that came with the coopers kit.

 

The things I did differently, that a lot of you kind folk have assisted me with (thanks again), using more LDME over simple sugars (like BE1 with the OS lager) , temp control, better kit (Coopers APA extract tin), better yeast, letting it go for another week after fermentation had finished, cold conditioning and additional flavoring hops and dry hops. If I tasted this ale at a pub or from a bottleshop, I'd be going back for more.

[ben 10]

I wish I could try some all grain brewing' date=' but with three young kids, no hope of getting that past SWMBO..

.[/quote']

 

Do you have an esky and a stock pot?

My first several were made that way. Bought a 19L pot from BigW.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I wish I could try some all grain brewing' date=' but with three young kids, no hope of getting that past SWMBO..

 

[/quote']

 

Just tell SWMBO that all grain is the cheapest way to do it (it actually is). Probably not a bad idea to do a few extract brews before you go all grain (if you do), to get an idea of hop schedules regarding bittering and flavouring etc, without worrying about mashing grains and all that stuff.

 

Glad to hear that your APA is going well too. It's pretty addictive, this brewing caper, even more so when you are producing beers that you really enjoy.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[Beerlust]

Hi Headmaster.

 

As one of the few longer participating members on the forum who still primarily uses extract bases for my brews, don't be in hurry to move onto All Grain brewing, feeling like you are missing out on something.

 

As you've found out very early, you can produce very good quality beer from an extract base, & to this point, it would be fair to say you've barely scratched the surface of what is capable in this area of home brewing.

 

So what does All Grain give you above extract & kit brewing? What it gives you is "freshness" & far more malt derived flavour options, & to be honest, that's about it. Apart from that, you can replicate almost everything else from an extract base & influence your beers very closely to All Grain brewing by being able to "partial mash". Partial mashing along side your extract base allows you to add in certain malt characteristics, malt flavours & freshness that the All Grainer's enjoy to a good degree without the necessity of having to purchase the larger volume equipment required to All Grain brew.

 

I currently partial mash up to 2kgs of grain with my oven/stovetop setup using a couple of 8 litre pots & a few decent sized saucepans that (when I get it right) produce some fantastic beers.

 

Partial mashing is a stage a lot of guys bypass on their way to All Grain brewing, & I have read over & over the associated problems that brewers run into by doing this too soon.

 

Step yourself up slowly. Learn about mashing base malt grains & associated efficiency, sparging, & what certain base malt grains add to the flavour of your beer above the extract varieties currently available.

 

If you are looking to try a few different base malt variants from an extract base outside partial mashing, the 4 Coopers unhopped extracts are very good, but for an extended variety, Briess have the best range. Linky.

 

Time to step down off my milk crate now.

 

Cheers & good brewing,

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I was one of those who skipped the partial stage and I had no issue at all, but I also did a lot of reading while I was waiting to have the money available to buy the equipment. It probably helped to go the BIAB method too, rather than jumping straight into a 3V system. It's a lot simpler. I still BIAB now, and am happy with the results.

 

You do get a fresher beer yes, and I have to say, my all grain brews have been streets ahead of anything I did with kits or extracts. Not that the extracts weren't bad beers, but AG is a whole new level. I think the equal biggest thing about it for me is creating a recipe, brewing it entirely from scratch, and then enjoying it later down the track and feeling a sense of achievement of being able to brew something like that. However, I do agree, it's not something that you need (or want) to rush into. Build up your knowledge base first, by doing kits, or extract and grain recipes etc.

[headmaster]

Much appreciate all the wisdom, many thanks. I did figure that later down the track would be a good idea, I'm sure I'll be itching to move into grain in the future, you're right Kelsey, it is addictive! Good fun planning the next brew as well, while the current one is doing it's magic.

 

I guess I got a very small taste by steeping the 200g of carapils for my current Euro/pils lager, but the mashing process sounds like a good challenge and very interesting. Looking forward to tasting that lager.

 

Currently looking at building a stir plate, have a couple of spare computer fans and magnets and can build the speed controller, just need to buy the jiffy box and stir bar.

 

Also, have looked for a Sydney LHBS stockist for Breiss malts, didn't have a lot of luck. Seems there are a lot more home brewers in Vic and WA! Anyone bought these in Sydney? There's always mail order I guess. Finding a place with good turnover would be good as well, as the fresher the malt extract the better I guess. Does that apply to both dry and liquid?

[Otto Von Blotto]

 

Yeah I know I was. Money was crap at the time so I had to wait. Going the BIAB in an urn route plus having my own grain mill did push up the costs of setup, but worth it in the end.

 

Mashing is an interesting process, and not something I know a hell of a lot about regarding all the science behind how it works and what not. However, I know enough to adjust it to what I want. Lower mash temps result in more fermentable sugars being extracted, higher mash temps result in more unfermentable sugars. So basically if I want a thick bodied beer I mash high, if I want something thin like a lager, I mash low.

 

When you get to stir bars, check them out and see if they have a little sort of raised ring around the middle. If they do, don't buy them. They rattle around like crazy on the stir plate and it's just really bloody annoying. Especially at night. I ordered some from Digital Homebrew that are just flat with no ring around them and they are much quieter! Just a heads up.

 

I have no idea about availability for Briess extracts, but I'm in Brisbane anyway. Freshest is the best option though I reckon.

 

Cheers

 

Kelsey

[antiphile]

Hi Guys

 

Bintani are the Australian Distributors for all Briess products.

 

I'm sure they'll be able to give you a list of stockists in Sydney if you email or phone them.

 

Bintani - Australia

P.O. Box 2069

Victoria, Australia

+61(0)3 9580 3566

http://www.bintani.com/au or http://bintani.com.au/

 

Cheers but don't forget Coopers extracts etc - I prefer them and I'm sure many here will be able to guide you to an equivalent product.

Phil

 

Edit added: Headmaster, could you send me an email to...

Thanks mate. Done.

[headmaster]

Thanks for your assistance there Phil. Long time between posts for me, as lagering is a lengthy process..

 

My lager that this thread was about, has been lagering for 4 weeks now and I'm itching to bottle it this coming weekend (2 week ferment and diacetyl rest period). It looks clean and clear. Might let it come back up to about 16 to make sure it's all done a couple of days before.

 

My main question that I was hoping to get some help with, I intend to re-use the rather substantial amount of yeast sitting on the bottom of the FV. Wont have time to mix and pour my new batch on top of the cake, so will harvest it, maybe rinse it or maybe use that ingenious method that antiphile came up with, tilting the coopers FV to extract some clean yeasties.

 

I guess the yeast be dormant after spending a month at low temps. Initially about 7c then 4c, then down to 1c over a week then about 2c for two weeks, third week about 3c. After doing a bit of reading today, maybe that was too cold, as brewed at 12c (saflager 34/70). Palmer says lager about 10F below brew temp so maybe I should have run about 6-7c.

 

Anyway if my yeast is dormant now, and I bring back up to 16c a couple of days before bottling, after harvesting the yeast and putting in a couple of sterilised passata jars in the fridge, should I have to do anything to wake it up before pitching into my next brew?

 

Next brew will be trying the http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/ with a spare OS Lager can, with 1.5 kg LDME and small hop flavour boil with some leftover Saaz and cascade.

 

Brew after that I'm trying the Urquell clone recipe that antiphile posted a while back.

 

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

Palmer does write some good things, but I question the idea of lagering temperatures. The yeast will likely be dormant, but all that's needed to wake them up is to simply raise the temperature. If you harvest the yeast and rinse it or whatever, the best idea is to store it in the fridge anyway, which is likely colder than 7C, until next use.

 

If you get to the stage of making yeast starters, a much simpler way to re-use yeast is to overbuild the starter a little, and then the basic idea is while it's all still mixed up, decant some into a sanitized jar and store this in the fridge. The main starter is then crash chilled in the fridge to settle the yeast out for use in the main batch. Then next time simply do the same process using the yeast stored in the fridge. This method is also on the Brulosophy site.

[antiphile]

Good afternoon, Sir

 

Just a couple of comments:

 

1. If it were me, I'd bottle it at the final crashing/lagering temp of 1C. You're more likely to leave the sediment on the bottom, and that includes the proteins that can cause "chill haze" so they don't have a chance to go back into solution and cause problems later on.

 

2. Secondly, after bottling, I'd let the remnants come back to room temp and then choose your favourite method of harvesting the yeast. This can then be refridgerated until about 24 to 36 hours before you intend to pitch it into your next brew. At that stage, I'd suggest you make a mix of dry malt and water at the rate of 100 grams dry malt per litre of water. Allow it to cool to room temp (with the harvested yeast also at same temp), and mix the malt mix and yeast together in a sanitised jar (I often use large jam and coffee jars etc). Cover loosely with cling wrap or aluminium foil, and vigorously agitate it every 6 hours or so to "reactivate" the yeast so it's ready to chomp.

 

Remember, sanitation is your friend, and I've used this method lots and lots.

 

All the best

Your fugly friend.

[headmaster]

Thank you yet again, Otto and antiphile for imparting valuable wisdom.

 

I am pretty darn sure it did ferment all the way out, measured 1011 on day 8 at start of diacetyl rest and exactly the same 1011 on day 12, bottling cold sounds better to me now to preserve the hard won purity of the brew. I guess I might try the yeast bootcamp with the LDME water starter method.

 

By the way, even though I do say it myself, and I know I've mentioned it before, but that APA with cascade that I brewed as my second batch, has just got better and better. One 750ml bottle left, and it's tasting it's best so far, that's at 6 weeks in the bottle, (two week primary 1 week CC). Family and mates who have tasted this ale just want more. I never would have expected you could brew beer this good at home, and I'm only a humble beginner extract brewer.

 

I think I'm going to be brewing for a while to come now. Back in the 90's when I did some brews with dad's kit, it was kind of a laugh, you made something alcoholic, it was kind of just drinkable, but I lost interest as it tasted like - well homebrew. A different story now, if I can make something I like better than many commercial beers.

[porschemad911]

I think I'm going to be brewing for a while to come now. Back in the 90's when I did some brews with dad's kit' date=' it was kind of a laugh, you made something alcoholic, it was kind of just drinkable, but I lost interest as it tasted like - well homebrew. A different story now, if I can make something I like better than many commercial beers. [/quote']

The cool thing is that with a bit of experimentation into what you like and some careful recipe design, you really can make beer that you like better than commercial brews! You can brew exactly to your taste, and you can drink it as fresh or as aged as you like

[Otto Von Blotto]

Thank you yet again' date=' Otto and antiphile for imparting valuable wisdom.

 

I am pretty darn sure it did ferment all the way out, measured 1011 on day 8 at start of diacetyl rest and exactly the same 1011 on day 12, bottling cold sounds better to me now to preserve the hard won purity of the brew. I guess I might try the yeast bootcamp with the LDME water starter method.

[/quote']

 

I'd say it did if it was the same reading 4 days later. The only reason mine get down to 1007ish is because I mash them at a lower temperature deliberately to cause this to happen. I just bottled my latest lager that I actually fermented with US-05 ale yeast. It got down to about 1006. The thing with extracts is you don't know the mashing conditions, and they're probably unlikely to mash them at a temp that would cause a lower FG, since most cats are brewing ales anyway. When I brew ales I mash higher to achieve a higher FG and fuller body.

 

I've only done the harvesting from starter method once so far, and I haven't even used the harvested yeast yet. I'd recommend using pint sized jars though. I used a 200mL jar and got bugger all yeast. I've since got a couple of pint jars for use in the future though. However, it's the easiest thing in the world. No mucking about rinsing, cleaning multiple vessels etc. And you get clean yeast that has only fermented a tiny wort by comparison to a full size batch, which is unhopped. It stands to reason that the yeast would be less stressed than after fermenting a full batch.

 

And totally agree with Mr 911 there, that is one of my favourite things about brewing at home. A lot easier doing all grain because you have absolute control over the recipes, but there is definitely room for experimentation with extracts.