Yeast Starter Question

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

I have some rinsed Wyeast 1318 yeast that I collected from a previous brew that I wish to use for another brew this weekend. I originally used this yeast on my Mosaic Amber Ale brew that was kegged on 12/03/14. I harvested the entire slurry from that brew & rinsed it twice (I think) before placing the contents in a preservative jar & refrigerating that collected volume ever since under approx. a litre of the last rinsed liquid.

 

I wish I had weighed one of the two large preservative jars I bought prior to filling them with the 1318 yeast & a batch of the Coopers CA yeast so that I could say how much of this yeast I have in actual weight, but I wasn't that forward thinking at the time! So I have NFI how much yeast I have actually collected. The volume of yeast collected is OVER an inch high in a large wide base jar that holds almost 2 litres of liquid volume.

 

My question is, should I use this volume (split or full) & make a 1-2 litre starter from it, or simply pitch the whole collected volume at my next planned brew in a couple of days?

 

As I have no practical experience in this area, I'd appreciate the advice.

 

P.S. I have the yeast volume out of the fridge bringing it up to room temp in readiness as I type this.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Anthony.

[antiphile]

G'day Lusty

 

A lot of the yeast pitching calculators use a volume rather than weight. I don't know if this calculator is the best one, but I find it to be really easy to make a starter using their instructions and it works for me. There are quite a few YouTube videos that are really sensible showing the method.

 

By making a starter as they recommend and giving it 24 hours to activate and kick enough cells into high gear, there seems only a tiny lag time before the SG starts dropping.

 

Oops, I forgot. If you have over an inch of solid yeast slurry, I'd probably only use about half in the starter.

[Beerlust]

Oops' date=' I forgot. If you have over an inch of solid yeast slurry, I'd probably only use about half in the starter.[/quote']

Cheers Sir Les.

 

I'll be very interested to see how the whole process goes from start to finish.

 

I'll make the starter up when I arrive home from work later this afternoon & pitch it into the brew later tomorrow all things going well.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[PhilboBaggins]

Lusty, just get another preserving jar the same as the one you've used for collecting your yeast.

 

Put the jars side by side on the counter, and slowly pour water into the second jar until it is full to the same height as your yeast.

 

Pour this water off into an accurate measuring jug, and hey presto. That's your volume of yeast in mls. Ready to punch into Mr. Malty along with the harvest date to determine how many cells you have.

 

BTW, an inch of solid yeast? If that's all clean yeast then you are far better at rinsing from the trub than I am. Kudos to you, sir!

[Hairy]

BTW' date=' an inch of solid yeast? If that's all clean yeast then you are far better at rinsing from the trub than I am. Kudos to you, sir! [img']cool[/img]

Perhaps Lusty is just like the rest of us after all; when it comes to comparing inches we tend to exaggerate

[antiphile]

Or if you don't have a similar-size jar you could "wing-it" by getiing a ruler and estimating the inside diameter of the jar. Halve that to get the radius. Then, assuming under this new maths they haven't changed the formula, the volume will be equal to:

pi times radius squared (in cm) times height of the yeast (in cm)

 

where pi is close to 3.14. The answer will be in mls.

 

PS. Were you happy with the 1318?

[Ramjet]

To experienced yeast-rinsers and "trublodytes", a question:

 

My last brew (AG) produced a VERY solid trub in the bottom of the FV. So solid, in fact, that when I needed just a teeny bit more brew to fill the last bottle, over and above what I could drain out by tilting the FV, I picked up the whole FV and poured the required brew into the bottle (through a funnel), and the trub never moved! This last little bit was still crystal clear, and the sediment/trub remained solid!

 

The yeast was Danstar Nottingham, and I CC'ed the brew to 4 C for 4 days.

 

The question is whether one can still rinse the yeast from such a solid trub, or is it better to still have a little wort remaining for the rinse?

[antiphile]

Howdy Roger

 

I can't see any reason why you couldn't. My approach would be to boil up about 1-2 litres of water and allow to cool to room temp. Pour it into the FV (also at room temp), and swirl the whole FV. I know this won't make sense to anyone but but me, but I get a better mixing result by swirling or swinging rapidly from side to side and front to back, rather than round and round.

 

Then if your using the Coopers FV you could collect it like the other recent thread, or whatever way you like.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey guys,

 

I like to keep a 4L jug of distilled water on hand at room temperature to plash a litre or so on the top of the yeast cake and give it a swirl. I find this a easier and quicker method to boiling. I think a jug of distilled water stays sterile a long time if the cap is left on. I've had a single jug around for weeks now and it's at the temperature you want without waiting for it to cool.

[Ramjet]

...Then if you're using the Coopers FV you could collect it like the other recent thread' date=' or whatever way you like.[/quote']

 

P2 - Having just received my new Cooper's FV, but yet to commission it, your lateral thinking in harvesting while leaving the trub behind, is genius! Well done that man.

 

Rest assured that if anyone ever dares suggest you're not worth pissing on, you can count on me to defend your honour, and defiantly say that you ARE!!!

 

Cheers - RR

 

 

[Canadian Eh!L]

Rest assured that if anyone ever dares suggest you're not worth pissing on' date=' you can count on me to defend your honour, and defiantly say that you ARE!!! [img']biggrin[/img]

Hear, Hear!

 

+1

 

 

[Beerlust]

Thanks for all the input & advice in the thread guys.

 

The yeast I collected & rinsed would have very little trub with it. If you understand the principle of yeast rinsing, it's really not that difficult to separate the yeast from the trub. You just have to monitor it during rinsing so that you time the separation(s) while the bulk of the yeast is still in suspension, & the bulk of the trub has settled out.

 

Clever idea with the side by side measuring Philbo. I will definitely remember that for future use. As mentioned in my initial post, my other preservative jar of the same size currently has some Coopers Commercial Ale yeast in it, so I couldn't perform the action you mentioned.

 

A little over a week ago I purchased a proper 2½ litre erlenmeyer flask for specifically this starter purpose. I've got a 1 litre LDM mix cooling in it as I type this.

 

I'll pitch half the rinsed yeast into it & see how it goes from there.

 

Hopefully at some stage in the next 24 hours I can pitch the active starter into my main brew set down for tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

P.S. I really liked the 1318 yeast in my Mosaic Amber Ale Sir Les. I plan to use it a lot more in the future.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[PhilboBaggins]

If you understand the principle of yeast rinsing' date=' it's really not that difficult to separate the yeast from the trub. You just have to monitor it during rinsing so that you time the separation(s) while the bulk of the yeast is still in suspension, & the bulk of the trub has settled out.[/quote']

 

Depends on the yeast though. I'd hate to try it with 1968. Shake the jar, wait 2-5 seconds and it's dropped. I've seen a video on AHB of 1968 actually clumping and floccing on the stir plate!!! I'm growing some WLP051 currently and it seems to be similar. You get crazy bright beers from yeasts like these though.

 

I'm either using DA's method to grow my yeast ATM, or just pitching slurry.

[Beerlust]

If you understand the principle of yeast rinsing' date=' it's really not that difficult to separate the yeast from the trub. You just have to monitor it during rinsing so that you time the separation(s) while the bulk of the yeast is still in suspension, & the bulk of the trub has settled out.[/quote']

 

Depends on the yeast though. I'd hate to try it with 1968. Shake the jar, wait 2-5 seconds and it's dropped. I've seen a video on AHB of 1968 actually clumping and floccing on the stir plate!!! I'm growing some WLP051 currently and it seems to be similar. You get crazy bright beers from yeasts like these though.

 

I'm either using DA's method to grow my yeast ATM, or just pitching slurry.

I haven't used 1968 before. That's quite incredible!

 

Once pitched does the 1968 have shorter than normal lag times, & higher foam rates?

This must be a very aggressive strain of yeast to be able to 'flock & drop' so quickly?

 

Being as it's been quite cold overnight, I sat my 1318 yeast starter on my heat pad controlled by the interval timer. I was greeted by a very healthy foam & developing krausen this morning.

 

One Mosaic/Columbus Amber Ale coming right up!

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Tezza]

finished and bottled a brew of APA last night and then shortly after draining beer from fermenter gave it a swirl as per Antiphile's advice and started another brew of APA on topof US05 remnants.

Within 3 hours layer of foam and rising bubbles in fermenter. This morning good healthy ferment underway and sitting on 20degC. Just came home after purchasing supplies for brew of TC's Heritage Lager kit.Shortly I will put second APA in brew fridge at 18DegC.Thanks for tips Sir Les.

Cheers Tezza

[Canadian Eh!L]

I've got some WLP002 on the stir plate right now that's headed for my latest Golden Ale that I brewed yesterday. This morning I started with 500 ml of wort that collected on brew day. This evening I topped it up with another 1.1L . I'll probably pitch the whole works into the waiting GA tomorrow evening. Man! I really think this No-chill is a really "chill" way to brew! It give a guy time to collect his thoughts and make sure the starter, FV and everything else is ready for pitching and fermenting. It's a long day when brewing AG and it nice to break it up into a couple of days. At the end of a brew day a brewer might not be as sharp as he once was when the day began and it's nice to come at it again a day or two later with a clear mind.

[Tezza]

Hi,had another win last night with yeast cake method. Bottled brew of TC's Australian Bitter kit and after swirling FV around a bit poured in prepared and cooled brew of TC's Heritage Lager kit.It is the same Coopers yeast AC+L in both kits so should come out ok. Again it was away within hours and on waking this morning, found nice krausen happening.two hours later into the brew fridge and time for a cuppa tea. I know they are only kits, but I am building up a bit of knowledge for down the track a bit.Cheers Tezza

[PhilboBaggins]

I haven't used 1968 before. That's quite incredible!

 

Once pitched does the 1968 have shorter than normal lag times' date=' & higher foam rates? [img']unsure[/img]

This must be a very aggressive strain of yeast to be able to 'flock & drop' so quickly?

 

Being as it's been quite cold overnight, I sat my 1318 yeast starter on my heat pad controlled by the interval timer. I was greeted by a very healthy foam & developing krausen this morning.

 

One Mosaic/Columbus Amber Ale coming right up!

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

 

Hi Lusty.

 

1968 is a complete arsehole to work with to be honest. It drops out alright, but often before getting the job done. FFTs and rousing are an absolute MUST.

 

So why am I still using it you ask? My god, I will bring you an English beer at some point brewed with this yeast. I have never experienced such a chewy and full malt profile in any other beer. It has the usual fruity esters that come with an English strain, but the malt just shines. You can taste the different flavours from each different grain you have selected for your recipe and it's to die for. Perfect for an Ordinary/Standard Bitter or Mild where you need those flavours to come through.

 

I wish I had a home brew right now.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Phil

What is the White Labs equivalent to your W1968?

[antiphile]

Hi LumberFisher

 

According to this, it's the one you're using (WLP002).

 

The wrong Phil

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Phil2,

Thanks for the response. I kinda thought W1968 and WLP002 were one in the same just by the way P1 described his 1968. The WLP 002 definitely flocs on the stir plate but really does make a great ESB or full bodied pale ale.

 

[antiphile]

G'day again Canadian Master of the Forested Lakes

 

So many yeasts, so little time! I've gone the opposite way this time. Yesterday I had a brew day and (just to prove my critics wrong for once) I didn't once need to call any emergency services to the house.

 

It didn't start till about 1:30, and was close to 9 pm by the time I'd done most of the cleaning up and put the wort into the fridge to cool overnight (and especially let the BrewBrite drop out fully). This morning I racked, pitched and aerated. It's the first time I've used Danstar Windsor (the guy who I discussed the Fat Yak recipe with and sold me the grains said his was very nice with Windsor). Because it is classed as a low to medium floccing yeast I'll be very interested to see how it varies to, say, SO-4, S-05 etc. I suspect it will need some crashing, but I'll play it by ear.

 

Then I'll need to try one of the higher floccing yeasts lots of you guys use.

 

PS. I also had better point out today I had to practice both soldering and brazing copper pipe because I've never done it before. Still didn't have to call the fire department. I wonder how long my luck will hold out.

[Beerlust]

Hi guys.

 

Rather than start a new thread, here seems to fit.

 

A couple of days ago I pulled out some rinsed Wyeast 1318 yeast that has been refrigerated for quite some time, so I'm guessing it's viability is not of the highest order. I allowed it to come up to room temperature, then pitched it into a 2 litre starter that had a pinch of proper yeast nutrient in it.

 

My concerns come from what I am visually witnessing in the flask. I generally buy & use fresh yeast & admit have only dabbled in starters made from rinsed yeasts. The starter is behaving much like a freshly poured glass of Schweppes Lemonade. It has a vigorous effervescence going that is continual, but what worries me a little is there does not appear to be any signs of a krausen forming, that I have observed previously when going through this procedure.

 

I'm concerned there may be an infection present, but would like to believe what I am viewing is quite normal.

 

I had a brew planned for today using this yeast, but am not willing to pitch this starter without a bit more info about what state it might be in.

 

Any thoughts & info from the more experienced re-users of yeast would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Lusty.

[Otto Von Blotto]

 

 

Is it on a stir plate or just sitting still on the counter (or wherever)? I'm no expert on it and I've never stored yeasts for ages and then tried to get them going again, so I don't really know for sure but it could be that it's so low in viability that it's struggling to really do anything. I've only just started re using yeast again, but it will likely only be around a month or two old each time I use it.

[Beerlust]

Hi Kelsey.

 

I don't have a stirplate, so I just use the intermittent shaking method. There is good gas & foam coming off it when I give it a shake etc. so maybe it'll be fine.

 

My view of it needing to form a krausen may also be misguided. The rinsed yeast sample I used was very clean & clear of hop matter & trub, so being that this type of material is usually found in the formation of a krausen, it's absence here may be the reason for no krausen?

 

I'll take a chance & pitch it into a brew in a few days time & see how we go.

 

P.S. If there is something bacterial in the starter, I should be able to smell it right?

 

Cheers,

 

Lusty.