4 Pines Pale Ale

[Summy]

Looking forward to tasting mine. Can't help but get excited when others are having a win also :P

[Beerlust]

Just an update on my 4 Pines attempt. I've just had a two week taster. Aroma is good, colour is good, nice head on the pour & the lacing is also good.

 

Unfortunately to the taste, it is a little sweeter than I was hoping for, & the bitterness could do with being a little sharper. The bitterness issue could be related to the sweetness of the malts masking it a tad, but I can't be sure of that yet.

 

I like the commercial beer, so I'll learn from this attempt & adjust the specialty grains (in particular) for a second crack at it down the track.

 

The current stock I'll allow to age further & see how it develops.

 

You can't win them all, but if you learn something in the process, it is knowledge gained. [joyful]

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[PhilboBaggins]

I've found sweetness to mellow a fair bit with age. My CSA clone was unbearably sweet at 3 weeks, but is a pearler now.

[Beerlust]

I've found sweetness to mellow a fair bit with age. My CSA clone was unbearably sweet at 3 weeks' date=' but is a pearler now.[/quote']

I'm hoping for a similar result with this ale after some aging too Philbo. [smile]

 

Out of curiosity, how far aged is your Sparkling Ale now?

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

 

[PhilboBaggins]

I think it's about 2 months on now?

[Summy]

Kegged, gassed & tasted yesterday.

 

Nicely bitter and quite similar to the real thing... only... I made a pig's ear of the recipe and didn't add enough extract (I only added 1 can of LME instead of 2) so it isn't as malty as the real deal, nor as alcoholic. A nice drink nonetheless.

 

I've decided to make a 23 Litre All Grain batch as my next brew.

[Summy]

For anyone interested... My recipe is as follows;

 

4 Pines Pale Ale \u2013 AG

 

Ingredients

 

Pale Malt grain 4.350Kg

Wheat Malt grain 400gms

Munich grain 250gms

Medium Crystal grain 250gms

CaraAmber grain 250gms

 

Mashing

 

Mash @ 68\xb0C for 90 minutes

Batch Sparge @ 75\xb0C for 30 minutes

 

Hop Schedule

 

Citra hop 20gms @ 60mins

Cascade hop 20gms @ 30mins

Citra hop 10gms @ 0mins (30min post boil steep)

Amarillo 15gms @ 0mins (30min post boil steep)

Citra 15gms dry hopped

Cascade 15gms dry hopped

 

[Beerlust]

Hi Summy.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, my version ended up a little sweet. I'll be interested in how this version of yours ends up, mainly due to you using Munich, where I used Aromatic. I plan to lower the CaraAmber &/or my Aromatic level next time I brew my version.

 

I've read Aromatic being described as "Double Munich" so maybe the level I used was a bit too much. More experimentation with the grain will yield me a better understanding of it. [joyful]

 

Good luck with the brew Summy, I'll look forward to your tasting thoughts of it down the track. [cool]

 

Edit: Maybe drop your CaraAmber back to 100gms. I reckon that will yield a better end result & reduce the sweetness I encountered.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Summy]

Thanks mate,

 

Unfortunately the grain is now mixed together so I'll have to suck it and see. Should make a fantastic beer and I'm looking forward to it immensely

[Beerlust]

Good call Philbo on the sweetness mellowing with a bit of aging.

 

At 7 weeks my 4 Pines Pale attempt is drinking very well. The initial sweetness has subsided to a more pleasant level, so I'm very happy about that. [joyful]

 

If someone poured me a pint of this in a pub, I'd certainly ask for another one once I'd finished drinking it. [love]

 

I'll definitely be brewing another batch of this & maybe just altering the malt grains a tad next time. The hop schedule worked well I thought. [cool]

 

My glass is empty, time to pour another one! [biggrin]

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Anthony C]

Well I\u2019m about to put down my version of this for a second time. I must say my first attempt at this was a fantastic beer and I\u2019m not going to make any changes.

 

It was as follows (BIAB):

 

ALE 4.3

Munich .5

Crystal .6

Wheat .5

 

25 Citra planning @60

10 Citra @10

7 Amarillo @10

7 Cascade @10

 

10 Citra @0

7 Amarillo @0

7 Cascade @0

 

With 1056 Wyeast

[Hughesy]

Absolutely love this beer and working in Manly drink it all the time. Best of their range for sure.

 

Unfortunately though, I have neither the equipment nor skills required for all grain brewing.

 

Can any one suggest a Kit version that could get me close. Would be happy to add grains if needed.

 

Any help is appreciated

Paul

[Gash Slugg]

I have found in the last few 4 Pines Pales I've had really nice subtle smokiness , I'm not sure if they changed their recipe or something but it took it to a new level. Alpha is great on tap, I'm always a little disappointed with it in the bottle, but that's to be expected I guess. Cheers!

[Nick]

I also fell in love with this and after asking a few questions here, i made a Coopers APA with 1.5 lt of Amber malt. With a 10 minute boil of 10g Citra, 20g Steep of Citra and then dry hopped with 20g Citra. All in all, probably not exact, but pretty close and damn tasty for a basic K & K with a few hops thrown in.

 

Nick

[Hughesy]

Thanks Nick, will give that a try.

 

Was also thinking of steeping 200G or Carared for 20 mins to get that classic redder colour.

[ben 10]

 

Was also thinking of steeping 200G or Carared for 20 mins to get that classic redder colour.

 

Carared is not red BTW.

[antiphile]

Hi all

 

Carared does throw red hues, but Ben, you're right about using it in an extract because you have to use a helluva lot of it. I've used it at 500g in an extract, but in combination with some medium crystal (it might have been 150-200g) and it wasn't nearly enough to describe the resulting beer as anywhere near red. Next time for the Irish red ale I'm going to also throw in 25-30 g roasted barley as well and see what happens.

 

So in truth, I'm relying more on the medium crystal and roasted barley for the red colour than the carared. But I'm kinda hoping every bit helps.

 

Cheers

Phil

[Hairy]

I find Carared on its own isn't that red but is better when combined with something else, like caraaroma or roasted barley.

 

However, the 4 Pines Pale Ale isn't that red anyway so the Carared should go nicely in it.

[Beerlust]

Given the grain advice by Weyermann's on their CaraRed, I would say that most brewers that are having problems creating the red hue with this grain are using it in the wrong amount, &/or using it in conjunction with other specialty grains that are creating final beer colour issues.

 

Weyermann Caramel Malt: CARARED

 

If you take the time to look at the EBC of this grain & compare it to grains of similar or lower EBC, you can garner that a grain of this EBC level will require a larger quantity as part of your malt grist to influence colour depth.

 

It's named "CaraRed" for a reason. If I was to brew a beer wanting a red hue using this grain, I would primarily use base malt grains, & as a minimum, approx. 400-500gms of this grain to produce the reddish hue for the beer.

 

It has some lovely flavour characteristics including honey, caramel & biscuit. So why wouldn't you want to emphasize those flavours in a beer of this type?

 

For those interested in producing a red ale & using this grain, I'd suggest removing any grains that are above 60 EBC from your grain bill, use an amount of this grain above 400gms (above 500gms if being the only specialty grain), & if wanting to use other grains, keep them to grains with a 60 EBC or lower(i.e. Caramalt, CaraHell, CaraPils...etc..).

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

That's fine if you want 500g+ of crystal in your beer (albeit a lightish crystal).

 

If you are after a dry red beer then I guess Carared isn't the way to go.

[Beerlust]

Hi Hairy.

That's fine if you want 500g+ of crystal in your beer (albeit a lightish crystal).

 

If you are after a dry red beer then I guess Carared isn't the way to go.

Seldom do I question anything Hairy says on this forum' date=' as I respect his opinion [b']greatly[/b] on all areas of brewing above my own knowledge in most scenarios.

 

For this discussion I disagree with your thoughts on an increased sweetness created by using this particular grain in this quantity in the way I have suggested.

 

I've used LOW EBC specialty grains numerous times in higher quantities & they don't really add a heightened sweetness as a mainstay into the final beer flavour when used at the level I suggested for this grain.

 

If you are the least bit concerned about creating an overly sweet beer given Hairy's inference, simply add a portion of dextrose into your malt mix, that will counteract some of the sweetness & dry the beer out to a certain degree.

 

I always consider different viewpoints. I feel I'm correct on this one.

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

I didn't mention anything about sweetness

 

I was talking about a dryer beer and increased dextrins in a beer doesn't necessarily mean it is a sweet beer.

[Guzz]

Ok, with 47 posts and over 800 views and growing, it's apparent that I need to go and buy some 4 Pines Pale Ale and see what all this fuss it about.

 

Cheers

Guzz

[Beerlust]

I was talking about a dryer beer and increased dextrins in a beer doesn't necessarily mean it is a sweet beer.

I'm lost now.

 

The original question posed is really centered around colour & using CaraRed to attain the reddish hue of the 4 Pines Pale. Perhaps as you & others have already suggested' date=' another grain type might be more appropriate in this particular recipe scenario. [img']unsure[/img]

 

Given this is a Pale Ale, I doubt roasted barley would be suited.

 

Cheers & good brewing,

 

Anthony.

[Hairy]

BTW, I wasn't have a go at you and I wasn't disagreeing with your suggested usage of Carared. I have never really looked into to recommended usage. I just pointed out that if you need to add 400-500g minimum then it may not be appropriate for all styles of red beer.