PB2 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yep, your crystal conversion looks fine. I recall Coopers Draught carrying a little bit of PoR character. (Many apple seasons have passed since then so this memory may be dodgy ) You'll still get some PoR hop aroma and flavour from a 60min boil. As for the the OS Lager, by the time it has gone through the brewhouse and then evaporation plant, there is little to no PoR hop character remaining (just bitterness). Hence the suggested 10g of PoR. You probably could even reduce it to 5g but a little extra PoR (assuming the hops are in good nick) should be okay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Eh!L Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Based on the ingredients we used at that time' date=' an all grain recipe might be: 4.5kg Pale Malt 70g Dark Crystal Single step mash in 15 litres of liquor (strike temp around 75C) at 67C for 90mins 90 min boil 25g PoR pellets with 60mins to go Total brew volume to 22 litres Ferment with WLP830 (or lager yeast of your choice) at 13C[/quote'] Sounds like a nice brew . It doesn't sound like the Crystal is doing much other than colouring at only 70g. PB2, do you always boil your wort for 90 mins? I most often do a 75mins boil as I find it's the happy medium between 60 and 90 mins. Do you see a significant difference between 60, 75, and 90min boils? Just curious what you or anyone else thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB2 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yes, I'd imagine the crystal addition is there for nothing more than colour. Our brewers need to hit the required colour from malts because we don't use colour additives post fermentation. I run 60, 75 and 90 min boils across various recipes. 90 min boils for styles when clarity in the glass is important. My latest brew being a hazy style (Lemon Myrtle Wit) was only a 60 min job but the the Choc-Magnum Porter before that was 90 min. In retrospect, dunno why I boil this for 90 min... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yep' date=' your crystal conversion looks fine. I recall Coopers Draught carrying a little bit of PoR character. (Many apple seasons have passed since then so this memory may be dodgy [img']lol[/img]) You'll still get some PoR hop aroma and flavour from a 60min boil. As for the the OS Lager, by the time it has gone through the brewhouse and then evaporation plant, there is little to no PoR hop character remaining (just bitterness). Hence the suggested 10g of PoR. You probably could even reduce it to 5g but a little extra PoR (assuming the hops are in good nick) should be okay! Thanks Paul. I've held the same belief regarding 60min bittering additions lending some flavour & aroma aspects into the final beer too. This is the reason why I don't bother with using magnum hops. I have some fresh PoR that I bought yesterday for the brew, & being that I'm an extract/partial brewer, that will be the malt platform I will use with it. The lager yeast you have suggested is where the beer will derive much of its flavour/character from anyways by the looks. My latest brew being a hazy style (Lemon Myrtle Wit) was only a 60 min job but the the Choc-Magnum Porter before that was 90 min. In retrospect' date=' dunno why I boil this for 90 min… [img']sideways[/img] It's good that you post on the forum PB2, because even you learn something from your own posts once in a while! Hehe! Cheers & good brewing, Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben 10 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 This is the reason why I don't bother with using magnum hops. Sierra Nevada dry hop Magnum in their Torpedo IPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Sierra Nevada dry hop Magnum in their Torpedo IPA. Isn't it in the mix with some other hops as part of the dry hop? Anyways' date=' dry hopping is one thing, bittering with a hop is another thing altogether. [img']wink[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi guys. Due to some unforeseen circumstances leading into this weekends brew day, I've had to come up with something different to brew away from what I had planned. This fairly simple recipe has been on the back-burner long enough, so what better time to give it a go! Earlier today I went & purchased the necessary ingredients using PB2's recommendations as a guide to have a crack at recreating something close to this beer. I was going to do a mini-mash with some fresh grains, but have decided to just keep it simple. After all, it's just a bloody lager! Coopers Commercial Draught (extract attempt) Coopers Light Liquid Malt Extract 1.5kgs Light Dry Malt Extract 1.25kgs Barrett Burston Dark Crystal grain (250 EBC) 70gms Pride of Ringwood (9.5%AA) 21gms @ 60mins Pride of Ringwood (9.5%AA) 10gms @ 5mins Wyeast 2042 Danish Lager yeast Brewed to 22 litres Ferment @ 13°C OG = approx. 1.043 FG = unknown IBU = 25 EBC = 10.5 I hope it produces something noticeably close. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiphile Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 That looks like a really interesting brew, and I'll be very interested to see what the Danish Lager yeast brings to the party. I've obviously not ever used it, but I see it's a really good attenuator. I'd be particularly interested in how it clears up afterwards (without filtration) given its low flocculation rating. 13C seems to be the upper limit for fermentation (range 8-13C). Don't suppose you'd consider dropping it a few degrees? Anyway, good luck with it and if you can, it'd be great to keep us posted. PS. Have you considered PB2s suggestion of adding a choc magnum to the boil? I prefer the choc-coated almond flavour ones, but I'd doubt either would survive a 60 or 90 min boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi Antsi. That looks like a really interesting brew' date=' and I'll be very interested to see what the Danish Lager yeast brings to the party. I've obviously not ever used it, but I see it's a really good attenuator. I'd be particularly interested in how it clears up afterwards (without filtration) given its low flocculation rating.[/quote']Yeah the attenuation is really up in the air at this point in time & the reason why I haven't listed an expected FG. Brew calc suggests 1.011, but I feel it could end up lower. I probably wouldn't use me as anyone to follow regarding best practices chasing clarity to any great levels & despite a few changes in that area for this particular brew, I won't be doing anything drastically different here other than a slightly longer cold crash & will be bottle conditioning this beer for 2-3 months before seriously getting stuck into drinking it. Using primarily extract in this brew, I'm not likely to run into many of the issues All Grain brewers have to deal with to improve clarity here. 13C seems to be the upper limit for fermentation (range 8-13C). Don't suppose you'd consider dropping it a few degrees? You raise a good point here' date=' & normally I would be in total agreement with you & ferment it lower, but not in this case. Mainly because I'm attempting to recreate a specific style of lager fermented beer. I can understand a few people starting to screw their face up with that comment so I'll explain the way I see differences & understand differences in lager fermenting temperatures across a few styles of lager yeast fermented beer. In brief, traditional European Lagers/Pilsners are fermented low (9-12°C). An American 'Steam' beer is fermented @ approx. 16-18°C. The Australian traditional 'Draught' seems to sit somewhere comfortably in the middle fermenting at approx. 12-15°C. For those that have sampled beers in these categories, you will note some of the obvious differences in flavours displayed by the lager yeast(s) & the slight adjustments to the malt grist through each of those temperature ranges to create the different end flavours at the glass. That's just the way I see it, so take it for what you think that is worth. That's why I'll be taking PB2's advice & fermenting it @ 13°C. [img']wink[/img] There is another reason I'm fermenting it @ 13°C, but I'm not going into that as I don't really want to be involved in the obvious debate that will ensue from revealing that reason. Anyway' date=' good luck with it and if you can, it'd be great to keep us posted.[/quote']Thanks Antsi & will do! PS. Have you considered PB2s suggestion of adding a choc magnum to the boil? I prefer the choc-coated almond flavour ones' date=' but I'd doubt either would survive a 60 or 90 min boil.[/quote']Mmmm....Ice cream beer....Mmmm! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, I put the a fore mentioned brew down yesterday. Pitched the yeast @ 18.5°C & let the brew come down slowly over the next 12 hours to now be sitting at 13°C. A limp thin foam sits atop the brew wort with little to no activity @ approx. 30hrs into the brew. The liquid yeast was about as fresh as one can buy it, so it better start shifting gears soon! No wonder I don't brew many lagers, they're so slow & boring, & all I do is worry the whole time they are fermenting! My biggest problem is I have a stupid fascination for brewing something different all the time! Wake up you lame yeast, WAKE UP!! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If you brew enough of them you get used to the lag time. Mine's kicking along nicely now at 10 degrees. Probably bottle it in about 4 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Lager yeasts are really Ale yeasts on Valium aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It does seem like it sometimes! In my experience though once they get going, they tend to finish pretty quickly. I usually hit FG in about 10 days, although it is helped by raising the temp up to ale temps in the last 1/3 to 1/4 of fermentation. Certainly it isn't taking 3 or 4 weeks like some have reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Happy to report upon waking this morning, the brew has a nice healthy krausen, my ROTM pack is now somewhere in SA, I have the day off work today, the sun is shining, so all is good....at least for one day! Time to flip that Galaxy dry hop addition into my Kolsch at some point today too. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 You may also find that even though there is no visible foaming, they are still doing something in there. I'd guess yesterday at that 30 hour point with the thin layer of foam that it had actually begun fermentation, and possibly had been going for a number of hours already. I noticed similar behaviour with my Urquell lager yeast in the starter flask on this current batch. It was nowhere near 30 hours but there was bubbling going on and it was more opaque than at pitching time, a number of hours before any decent amount of foaming started appearing, which despite it being on a stir plate, did appear. Had about half an inch of foam across the top of the starter for a couple of days there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The Draught brew is trundling along at a typical light speed associated with lager fermentation's. Today it's added that stinky rotten egg smell just to let me know it's doing it's thing! Imagine if a lager yeast could ferment curried eggs?!! Slow ferment, stinks, long conditioning cycle. No wonder I stick to brewing Ales! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Obviously working then! Mine's started exhibiting the rotten egg aroma as well. I used to shun brewing lagers for the same reason (time) but this quick lager method has changed all that. It's only an extra week from pitch to bottling than my ale schedules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi Kelsey. Yeah, I'm going to follow the fast lager method to some degree myself. I'll likely take a gravity reading this coming Sunday & hopefully it's within 4-5 points of expected FG, then I'll raise the temp up to the diacetyl rest zone for the second week. That's the plan anyway. Good luck with your brew. Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Sounds good mate, let us know how it goes. That's pretty much my time frame as well really, although I raise the temp a little earlier. Thanks mate. One thing that is a positive in this current batch is the level of sediment is nowhere near the tap this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I took a gravity reading of the brew yesterday & the SG reading was 1.016 down from 1.043. So I have now removed this from the brew fridge & have it sitting in a spare room under ambient conditions (approx. 16°C atm). I'll leave that there for the rest of the week & take another gravity sample possibly as early as Thursday, but definitely by Saturday. Apart from a light sulphur type aroma it smelled pretty good. Hopefully by Saturday it is down around the expected 1.011 or lower, & I can look to begin crash chilling it in readiness for bottling. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Unfortunately this brew is causing me a few dramas! Damn lagers! It halted @ 1.016. That's too high. So I pitched a packet of Coopers lager yeast about 4-5 days back & it seems to have stopped at 1.014-15. The sample tasted ok but for carbonation reasons I'm not happy with that at all to bottle. Attenuation at that point came in at approx. 67% for a yeast strain that should be somewhere around 73-77%. This is a very simple brew (malt wise) that should finish around 1.011 or lower. I'm actually going to pitch some basic Coopers ale yeast that comes with most of the OS kits, as I've always found it very reliable. If the SG is the same after 4-5 days of exposure to that yeast, I'll then feel safe about bottling it. No wonder I don't brew lagers! PITA! Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 That's why I always make starters with those Wyeast smack packs. I know they claim you can just dump it straight into a batch after smacking it and leaving it to swell but I'd rather be safe than sorry in this case. You didn't mention making a starter for this brew? For a lager, you really need about 400 billion cells minimum, but you could probably get away with 250-300 billion if pitching high and bringing down. ~100 billion is nowhere near enough. It's not a great surprise to hear that it stalled, to be honest, but unfortunate all the same. If the Coopers ale yeast fails to bring it down any further I'd agree it's done, and could be an instance of a perceived or real trend of extract based brews finishing higher than an equivalent AG wort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Well the whole making of this simple beer has been a right PITA IMHE!! Earlier today I scrubbed, cleaned & sanitised a mixture of stubbies & longnecks, & finished bottling this brew a short time ago. Oddly it still had a slight sulphur smell on bottling but tasted OK from the sample I drew off before bottling. It's in the bottle now, so I'm happy about that, but admit I won't be in a hurry to brew another lager brewed beer again anytime soon. What a PITA in all areas! I'll start sampling the stuff in a couple of months time. Thank goodness the next brew (currently in the second week of primary) due for my usual kegging is the ROTM AUS Hop Slam IPA! Barring a really nice Pilsner styled brew, I think I'm over this mid level lager style recipe brewing as I don't feel it is worth the added effort above what I like to produce with an ale based yeast. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The sulphur smell should dissipate in time, especially if you can keep them warmer. You just need to refine your processes a bit by the sounds of it. Lager brewing isn't difficult, it's a little more in depth, but if you do everything right it's no more of a PITA than brewing an ale really. Just an extra week in the FV when all's said and done. Hell, if I can do it with no issues then anyone can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hi Kelsey. I'm not the least bit worried about the sulphur smell, for the exact reason you mentioned. I feel a number of the problems I encountered through this brew are based around an ignorant pitching yeast profile I've adhered to thus far that hasn't produced any noticeable problems when lager fermenting brews thus far. That belief (although not previously without positive results) may have caught me out here. At the end of the day to me, it's just a lager, so no big deal if it doesn't reach any lofty heights. In my eyes, flavour-wise, it never was going to anyway. The PoR influence has definitely been scrubbed away during the primary fermentation. I might have to look into that if brewing a lager down the track again with this yeast...a long way down the track! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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