German Lager

[Otto Von Blotto]

Hey guys,

 

I'm looking at brewing a German style lager at some point soon and just have a couple of quick questions regarding ingredients.

 

Firstly the base malt. Would pilsner or Munich malt be best? Could I get away with using my base ale malt? I'm guessing one of the pils/Munich ones would give a more authentic flavour.

 

Secondly hops. I have around 200g Hersbrucker and 30g & 50g of Hallertau and Saaz respectively. I'm thinking some combination of Hersbrucker and Hallertau but any other hop suggestions welcomed. Probably go for somewhere between 20 and 30 IBU.

 

Yeast I'm thinking probably Fermentis W-34/70.

 

Thanks in advance! [joyful]

[Hairy]

A Helle's style lager?

 

Definitely go with a pils malt wiith a litle bit of munich.

 

Hops look good but go towards your lower end of IBUs. The yeast is good too.

 

Here is a link to the BJCP Style Guide which may help:

 

Style - Munich Helles

 

GrahamB8 brewed one up recently but I can't find the recipe; it looked good. If you ask him nicely he might re-post it.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's the one Hairy. I tried a Spaten M\xfcnchen at the Bavarian Bier Caf\xe9 up here a week or two ago and quite enjoyed it so I decided I'd like to brew something in that style. I actually downloaded the BJCP Style Guide book thing a while back and promptly looked at it after I'd already posted the question[pinched] [lol]

 

Looks like I'll be making another trip to CB to grab some pils and munich malts then!

[Canadian Eh!L]

Perle, Magnum, Norther Brewer are all hops in the German style that make a nice brew in my opinion.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Thanks Chad, I actually have some Magnum and Northern Brewer hops as well[biggrin]

 

Might have a bit of a muck around in Beersmith and see what I can come up with.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Thanks Chad' date=' I actually have some Magnum and Northern Brewer hops as well[biggrin']

 

Might have a bit of a muck around in Beersmith and see what I can come up with.

Nice![cool] I've got some lager yeast coming in the mail. Let me know what you come up with.

 

Something else to consider around this time of year when thinking about German lagers is a Marzen/Oktoberfest. I made one last March and cold Lagered it for 6 months. It was pretty good. I'll dig up the recipe and notes if you're interested.

[Otto Von Blotto]

This is the basic recipe I have so far:

 

5.00 kg Pilsner

0.50 kg Munich Malt

20.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.20 %] - First Wort 75.0 min

6.00 g Magnum [12.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min

20.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min

 

 

I'm going for a 25 litre batch. Predicted IBU's around 22. Predicted OG & FG 1048 and 1008. ABV 5.2%

I'm not sure how it works out the ABV though, when I do the 40/7.46 + 0.4 I get 5.8%. (5.76% to be exact).

 

Anyway yeah I would be interested to check those out Chad. Although I probably don't have any real way to cold lager these beers for extended periods at the moment since I only have one brew fridge.[lol]

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

I've been playing around a bit with this and added a couple of malts, this is the updated recipe:

 

5.00 kg Pilsner Malt

0.50 kg Munich II Malt

0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine

0.10 kg Carared

 

20.00 g Hersbrucker [4.20 %] - First Wort 75.0 min

6.00 g Magnum [12.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min

20.00 g Hersbrucker [4.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min

 

Would it be worth dry hopping with some Hallertau as well? Maybe 20g?

[GrahamB8]

I have this Helles clone in the fermenter right now, very easy drinking for my tastes, even at the higher end of the ABV scale, very sessionable:

 

Grain:

5kg Pils (because 5kg is cheaper at CB but 4kg was the original recipe if you have your own grain crushing facility but tweak the hops)

500g Munich

120g Light Crystal

120g Aromatic

 

Hops:

20g Perle 10% AA 60 min

10g Perle 10 min

10g Perle 2 min

 

Yeast:

Wyeast 2124 - 2.5L starter from wort

 

Fermenting at 12\xb0c as I type, this will ferment for approx 10 days then raise temp to 16 for 3 days.

Im only going to lager this for 2 weeks this time and compare against the 2 other lagers I have kegged that had extended lagering periods.

 

Need to make space though, Ive got a nut brown ale in the cube Im keen to get into

 

I dont see why you couldnt dry hop it I had a hoppy lager at a restaurant on Friday which was nice, it used Cascade, but my previous attempts have been shy of hop charector.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hey Otto,

 

Here's that Marzen/Oktoberfest recipe I mentioned.

 

2.5 Kg Light DME

.566Kg Amber LME

.25 Kg Caramunich

.15 Kg Carapils

.15 Kg Pale Choc Malt

30g Hallertau (45mins), 5g (0mins)

5g Perle (0mins)

2L Wyeast Baverian yeast starter

23L preboiled water (to remove temporary hardness)

160g Dex (bulk prime)

Brewed @ 13C

Cold lagered for 6 months @ 4C

 

Give it a go! Maybe you can convert this one to AG?>

[Otto Von Blotto]

Hi Graham and Chad,

Thanks for those recipes guys.[happy] I'll have to give them a go as well.

 

How many litres was your batch Graham? I normally start with 35ish litres and end up with 25 or so into the fermenter, I've found 5kg of base malt to be a pretty good amount (usually end up with around 5.5% ABV), and since I buy it in 25kg sacks it makes it easy - 5 batches per sack and no annoying little amounts left over.

 

That looks pretty nice Chad, I'll have to see how I go converting it. I think Beersmith has a function where you can enter a recipe in extract form like that, and then convert it automatically to all grain. So yeah will have a look for sure. Might have to order some Perle hops too.[lol]

 

Thanks again guys.[joyful]

[GrahamB8]

I start with approx 27 litres and like to put 20 in the FV which leaves 19 for the keg, I loose about 1L to break material and 1L in trub in the fermenter. when added together I loose around 5L to the boil which is just above the 20% mark.

Ive read that anything above 12% is fine.

 

I use a 50L pan and a 105BTU high pressure burner

[Hairy]

A bit off-topic; Graham do you find the 50 litre pot too big for single batches?

 

I am about to get myself a boil kettle and have the option of 36 ltr to 50 ltr. Obviously rather 36 is cheaper [wink]

[PhilboBaggins]

A bit off-topic; Graham do you find the 50 litre pot too big for single batches?

 

I am about to get myself a boil kettle and have the option of 36 ltr to 50 ltr. Obviously rather 36 is cheaper [wink]

 

Hairy, bigger is better mate![lol]

 

With my current burner (low pressure reg and all) I lose way too much to evap for my 30L kettle to push out anything but 16L, and even then I usually have to top up a bit. [crying]

 

I've just built a 40L kettle, so hopefully I'll be a bit better off for 20-23L. My 30L was great for the stove, but when using a gutsy burner, a bigger pot is ideal. I would totez go for the 50L.

[Hairy]

OK, I am grabbing a dictionary to find out what 'totez' means and I will get back to you [innocent]

 

Will I need an Adelaide specific dictionary?

 

Also, what is your starting boil volume? I was thinking that if mine was somewhere between 27-30 litres I could get away with a 36 litre pot.

[PhilboBaggins]

OK' date=' I am grabbing a dictionary to find out what 'totez' means and I will get back to you [innocent']

 

Will I need an Adelaide specific dictionary?

 

Also, what is your starting boil volume? I was thinking that if mine was somewhere between 27-30 litres I could get away with a 36 litre pot.

 

[lol] [lol] [lol] I work in a high school Hairy. Totez means 'totally' in moron teenager speak.

 

Yeah mate, if your initial volume is only gonna be 27-30 then a 36 pot would be sweet. BUT, putting 30L in a 36L pot and expecting to have a trouble free boil? Been there mate, I would always go bigger to avoid the foam and bubbles going over. Also, with my boil off rate, brewmate reckons I need 37L to get down to 27L (I lose about 4L to trub and hop debris).

 

I got by with my 30L pot for 25+ brews and have made some killer beer. In hindsight though, the one thing I would have done was bought a bigger pot straight out to 'future proof' myself.

 

I'm sure you'll be chuffed with the 36 anyway mate, but if 50L won't cost much more, then go man, go!

[Otto Von Blotto]

As you probably know from my brewday thread, I have the 40L crown urn that I use. I usually start with 35 litres, my pre-boil volume is usually around 30-32L and I generally fill a 25L cube without having to squeeze the sides in to expel the air.

 

In response to Graham, I'll probably go with the 5kg base malt when I get around to trying that recipe. It's what I normally use for my 25L batches and usually get somewhere around 5.5% ABV.

[GrahamB8]

36L would be great if your not considering doing double batches mate, just keep a vigil until you get to a rolling boil and after subsequent hop additions.

 

I do find my pot cumbersome its Aluminium with a wall thickness of about 3mm, I bought 2 of them for $50 off a restaurant via Gumtree so I dont complain.

 

Ive just 'aquired' 3 50L SS kegs though so my pots and mash tun will go into retirement in the very near future.

[Canadian Eh!L]

A bit off-topic; Graham do you find the 50 litre pot too big for single batches?

 

I am about to get myself a boil kettle and have the option of 36 ltr to 50 ltr. Obviously rather 36 is cheaper [wink]

Hi Hijack Hairy[rightful] ,

 

I have a 36L Aluminum kettle and a 40Qt SS kettle with tap and thermometer. The 36L pot is tall and norrow (420mmT x 300mmW)in comparision to the SS 40Qt (400mmT x320mmW). I use the 36L pot as my brew kettle and the 40Qt for heating mash and sparge water. The 36L pot is a lot less cumbersome. This is important when trying to move around a brew at full volume.

 

I think the 36L kettle you are looking into will probably do just fine for you. As far as boilovers go... If you are using a gas burner for your boils then it is as simple as turning the gas down right before the boilover until the action subsides then bring the heat back up![wink]

[Hairy]

Thanks guys. I made a reference to cost but the difference is only $50 so it wasn't the main driver.

 

It was more about not using a huge big ass kettle if I didn't have too. I have no intention or desire to do double batches.

 

Sorry Otto, back to your German lager [innocent]

[Otto Von Blotto]

Sorry Otto, back to your German lager [innocent]

 

[lol] it's all good. Unlike some recently departed, I don't really care if any threads I start go off topic a bit. [cool]

 

I tried a Burleigh Brewing helles at this place yesterday but it wasn't as nice as the Spaten I had. Just seemed to lack flavour. Maybe it was just me.[innocent] Hopefully this one I brew up in a few weeks is a bit more flavoursome[lol]

 

[Canadian Eh!L]

This is a mish-mash recipe that I've had in the FV for a couple of weeks now. Its a Partial Mash The seems to fit as a German style Ale.

 

1.0 Kg DME (Light)

1.0 Kg Pale Malt

.64 Kg Munich 10L

.566 Kg LME (Amber)

.500 Kg Wheat Malt

.200 Kg Victory Malt

25g Magnum 11.3% (60mins)

10g Hallertau 5.3% (10mins)

23L water

Wyeast 1450 Denny's Fav.

 

Mash temps were all over the place but mostly 67C.

[Otto Von Blotto]

That sounds interesting Chad, might have to put that one in the pipeline as well.[happy]

[Canadian Eh!L]

That sounds interesting Chad' date=' might have to put that one in the pipeline as well.[happy']

Yea, it does sound pretty good.[joyful] I have been wrong before, though.[pinched] I'll let you know down the line... Maybe.[biggrin]

[Otto Von Blotto]

[lol] No dramas mate.

 

I will be brewing up my recipe tomorrow on my day off, I went and bought another cube after work today so now I have 3 cubes.[biggrin]