American Dark Ale (or Black IPA or Cascadian Dark Ale)

[JonathanM3]

I'm trying to work out a recipe in a current style that is all the rage here in the US - the Black IPA.

 

What? A Black Pale Ale Arrgh that doesn't make any sense. It's also called 'Cascadian Dark Ale' sometimes, but I prefer 'American Dark Ale', as it's a porter / stoutish beer that's aggressively hopped with Northwest US type hops. In this case I want to use Centennial, about 5 oz (142 g).

 

I haven't done the specialty grains, except in kits, so I'm not sure if I'm out of whack here or not, and that's where I'll need help.

 

The recipe:

 

5 lbs Light DME (2.27 kg)

2 lbs Wheat DME (907 g)

1 lbs Chocolate Malt 350L (454 g)

1 lbs Caramel 80L (454 g)

.5 lbs Briess Special Roast (227 g)

 

Hops:

60 Min 1 oz (28 g) Centennial

20 Min 1 oz (28 g) Centennial

5 Min 2 oz (57 g) Centennial

Dryhop 1 oz (28 g) Centennial

 

5 gallon batch (full boil, about 6.5 gallons)

 

Steep Caramel, Chocolate, and Special Roast ~30 minutes (heat a couple of gallons to 165 F (73.8 C))

90 minute boil, hops as scheduled

 

Is there too much specialty grains? Will that mess up the beer (or significantly lower my gravity?) What I was trying to accomplish was to use light malt extract and get most of the color and flavor from the specialty grains. I chose a couple of pounds of wheat to just give a little extra twist on the flavor. I wanted some roasty flavor, but not overpowering, so I wanted to match the Chocolate roast with the caramel, but still get the dark color. Also, Briess here makes their Chocolate malt at 350L instead of the darker Chocolate malts I see from Britain and Europe on the shelves, so I thought it would be less roasty.

 

Don't be shy, let me know what you think. I haven't used anywhere near that much specialty grains in anything before.

 

Thanks, and Cheers

[Guest]

Hi Jonathan - Yes, imo there are too many specialty grains. If I was going to adjust this recipe to brew for myself I would start at:

 

250g choc malt

250g caramel 80L

150g Briess Special Roast

 

There is no need for a 90 minute boil so I would just do a 60 min.

 

Crack the grain and steep at 65C for 30 minutes then sparge with 2L of water at 65C.

 

Then adjust to suit your taste the next one.

[JonathanM3]

Thanks, Bill. I was thinking it might be a little much, just wanted to make sure to get enough of the dark color, and was going to do a 90 minute boil to try to get it darker, and bring out a little more caramel flavor, like in a Scotch Ale or wee heavy.

 

What would be the effect / problems of too much specialty grain? I know there are references like Caramel/Crystal - under 20% of total, etc. Is there an overall % to stay under for the spec. grains total?

 

Thanks, again....

[NewtownClown]

The Style is officially "American-Style India Black Ale" (the BA and the GABF), the BJCP has accepted the guidelines for consideration as of Feb 2010, word has it that if the style starts appearing in homebrew competitions in significant numbers it may appear in the next revision of BJCP styles guidlines.

 

Your recipe looks looks to be on a par with many I have reviewed except for the addition of the wheat.

 

Many brewers cold steep the dark grain to avoid tannin and the burnt, roast flavour that is common in stouts and porters (many add a color extract, too).

 

I have planned to start experimenting with this style (1 gallon batches) and my starting point is going to be,

 

80% American 2 row

8% American Chocolate

8% Carafa II

4% American Crystal 60L

Centennial for bittering, Centennial & Amarillo for flavour/aroma

to about 60 or 65 IBU

and a neutral US Ale yeast (prob US-05 as I have stacks of it re-cultured and stored in the fridge)

[NewtownClown]

What would be the effect / problems of too much specialty grain? I know there are references like Caramel/Crystal - under 20% of total, etc. Is there an overall % to stay under for the spec. grains total?

 

Thanks, again....

 

All spec. grain, ie: those that don't require mashing, have a high proportion of unfermentables.

 

Using a high proportion of these will lend to a very malty (sweet) beer with low alcohol that is high in body and mouthfeel - compare a dry stout with an oatmeal stout which is high in unfermentables (my oatmeal stout uses 450 grams of rollled/flaked oats).

 

So, how much is too much? That depends upon two considerations - the style you are aiming for and your personal preferences...

 

[JonathanM3]

Thanks for those tips, I don't really mind having a high final gravity, do you have any suggestions as to what FG translates to what mouthfeel? I've never had anything finish "chewy" or anything like that - the highest FG I had was a Wee Heavy SG 1.083, FG 1.018, which had a thick, but smooth mouth feel. It's 9 months old now, has a nice scotch like experience going on...

 

I'm shooting for in between Session and Imperial, which to me is 6-7 abv, if I cut the specialty grains, I am worried I'll get a brown instead of a black ale. I think based on the advice, though, that I'll end up with a more drinkable beer if I cut the specialty grains, maybe add a little dex or malt to make up the difference.

 

Thanks,

 

Jonathan

[Terry]

Here's a recipe I've been toying with:

 

Coopers Dark Liquid Extract 1.5kg

Coopers Light Liquid Extract 1.5kg

Light Dry Malt 0.5kg

Dextrose 0.5kg

Hops

30g Simcoe for 60 min

30g Willamette for 20 min

10g Cascade for 7 min

20g Cascade Plug dry hopped in secondary

 

OG 1056

FG 1012

IBU 57

SRM 55

ABV 5.8%

 

Cheers,

 

Terry.

[NewtownClown]

what FG translates to what mouthfeel?

 

Good question, I don't think there is any one answer for whilst FG is a big component of mouthfeel, it is not the only factor.

Also, mouthfeel can be perceived differently from one taster to another, so it is a subjective thing. Personally, I consider an FG over 1025 to be heading to the chewy side.

 

I am not sure by what you mean by it being "more drinkable" if you cut the spec. grains. Yes, be careful of ending up with a brown ale. Replacing with malt will increase the alcohol and the maltiness so be sure to increase the hops to keep it balanced. Replacing with dextrose will increase the alcohol and give a lower FG.

 

Is your recipe for 5 gallons? If so, I believe you will get what you are aiming for with an FG of around 1018-1020 and an ABV% of 7-7.5%. Replace some of the malt with dextrose if you wish for a lower gravity than that. With my recipe I am aiming for 1014-1018

 

 

 

[JonathanM3]

NewTown, you certainly know a lot about beer, not just the making but about the appreciation of it.

 

Thanks for your tips. I think I might replace some of the light DME with dark DME. I know in forums, especially elsewhere, there is some kind of hatred of extract in general and Dark extract in particular. I've brewed several batches and have used many varieties of light / dark / in between extracts. The Briess stuff we get here is top notch, and I think I can trust that if using the dark DME means more fully malted grain, the right color, and less specialty / unfermentable stuff, the better.

 

In answer to your question, the recipe is a 5 gallon recipe, I scaled back from an originally planned 6 gallon recipe.

 

Also, in your opinion, it appears the extra boil doesn't really accomplish anything?

[NewtownClown]

Flattery will get you everything...

 

...in your opinion, it appears the extra boil doesn't really accomplish anything?

 

The theory behind a 90 min boil is to drive off the precursors that cause dimethyl sulphide.

This doesn't really apply to well modified ale malts and certainly doesn't apply to extract - dry or liquid. It can be present in pilsner malt, but grain is so well modified these days that a homebrewer needn't be concerned.

 

A long boil can add melanodin flavours and caramelise the sugars and darken the brew.

Of course, a 90 min boil also uses more power/gas and evaporates more water.[rightful]

 

Making a recipe with dry extract & spec grain when short on time, I am happy with a 15 min boil! The downside is needing more hops to achieve the same bittering level.

 

+1 on the Briess products. (Just wish Coopers had the same wide range). Just remember that dark extract also contains spec. grain and therefore unfermentables.

Using your own grain to control color and flavour gives you the ability to control the proportions (and type) in order to tweak a recipe to your own satisfaction.

 

Nothing wrong with extract except for, as I pointed out, lack of control. Many extract beers have won awards. Prejudice is born from ignorance.

 

I like the look of your recipe and hope you go ahead, I'd look forward to hearing how it goes.

 

[JonathanM3]

Thanks for the props, I read about the style and it sounded interesting to me, and I also read around a decent amount of complaints that some of the breweries were turning out ABA? as sort of a fad brew, with the hoppiness of a pale ale, and the black color but no real dark malt flavor. That's why I was trying to stick to a slightly darker than norm caramel and the American chocolate, instead of the Carafa that is prescribed in almost all of the other recipes I have seen.

 

I also read about the Special Roast and liked what I read and wanted to use it, thought it would work here for another layer of flavor to ponder.

 

Again, thanks for the guidance I very much appreciate it. It seems like if I hit around 1018-1020 I will have gotten where I want to. I use a recipe calculate at hopsville, 'Beer Calculus' at least so far it has done a good job for me.

 

I think I will try the US-05 this time, I started with the Coopers kits, and my last 3 beers I used Nottingham. That yeast worked really well, especially for low temps like 15C

[JonathanM3]

BTW - If anyone's interested, the hop schedule came from a clone recipe of Bell's Brewing Two Hearted Ale, one of my favorite I (A?) pale ales... Not sure how widely distributed they are... they come from Michigan, USA.

[NewtownClown]

BTW - If anyone's interested' date=' the hop schedule came from a clone recipe of Bell's Brewing Two Hearted Ale, one of my favorite I (A?) pale ales... Not sure how widely distributed they are... they come from Michigan, USA.[/quote']

 

Bell Two Hearted IPA Hmmmmmmm

 

Not readily available here, a LOT is not readily available here. Our craft brewing industry is where the U.S. was around the early to mid 90's. The Government doesn't make it easier and our market is small compared to the US and is dominated by the giants.

 

A client is a beer and spirits distributor, I often get a bottle of a beer that is trying to crack our market - Bell's Two Hearted was one in 2009. My first taste of an American IPA and first experience of Centennial [love] .

 

I've made three all-Grain batches since then, my hop bill is

1/2 oz. - Centennial (60 min.)

1/2 oz. - Centennial (45 min.)

1/2 oz. - Centennial (30 min.)

1/2 oz. - Centennial (15 min.)

1/2 oz. - Centennial (flameout)

1 oz. - Centennial (Dry Hop)

 

[JonathanM3]

That sounds pretty tasty to me, a good resource I found is Northern Brewer, an online retailer here. They have tons of kits but the best part is the put .pdf recipes with ingredients right on their website. Click into the kit description, and they have promash analysis and the ingredient list. Nice place to start, especially if looking for a good clone.

 

Your hops do appear a little light, but beers are "HOP WILD" over here, so the more the merrier :) Bell's Two Hearted is one of my favorite IPA's though, so I figured it was a good place to start with this one. My other favorite is Harpoon IPA. Delicious.

 

Can you get Sterling hops over there, I've used them in a couple 'cream ales', Used pilsner DME and those, turned out nice and tasty fermented low (59-60 degrees) with Nottingham yeast, although I think I should have added a little specialty grain for color, it came out nice and pale but needed a little more gold in it.

[Canadian Eh!L]

Hi Jonothan,

 

I made a 'cream ale' a while back. I used around 500g of brown rice syrup to get a nice gold colour. it also give a crisp/dry taste. I was just thinking I should put another one down using the cooper's ale/lager yeast.

 

 

[weggl]

Jonathan, went to Nothern Brewers site, cant find any kit description or pdf stuff[pinched]

 

Warren

[Muddy Waters]

Here ya go Warren, some links to the pdf's Jonathan mentioned:

EXTRACT

ALL GRAIN

 

LIMITED EDITION KITS

 

Anything else I can do while I'm here [biggrin]