Dark Ale

[scottb12]

Hi everyone,I have the following ingredients and was wondering how much dextrose, LDM & hops I should use

1 OS Dark Ale

1 kg LDM

1 kg dextrose

Cascade hops

Nelson Sauvin hops.

 

Looking forward to your ideas.

Cheers

 

 

[Guest]

I guess it really depends what sort of drink/flavour you are after.

 

With regards to the hops, it depends if you are after a more bitter beer or want more flavour or aroma. There are a lot of different recipes these ingredients will make so it will really depend exactly what you are after.

 

Any chance you can give us a slight hint?

 

If you want a "hoppy" type beer you could almost do the fat yak recipe albeit just a different base can.

[Greg]

Make a Cascadian Dark Ale. Use:

 

1 tin OS Dark Ale

1 kg LDM

250g Dextrose

25 Cascade @ 10 mins

20g Cascade @ 3 days

 

 

[scottb12]

Thanks for the replies, I'm after a hoppy flavour and aroma. I'll try the cascadian dark ale.

 

Cheers

[weggl]

Greg what's the Cascadian tate like. Was thinking of doing a dark with wheat malt.

 

Warren

[Hairy]

I haven't used the Dark Ale kit before but doing it with wheat malt sounds quite nice.

 

What else were you planning on adding and what yeast will you use?

[weggl]

Hairy, I just made one. But only had Draught on hand so i used

Can Draught

600g Dry Dark Malt

400g Wheat Malt

200 Dex

Cultured yeast

23 L

Hope it turns out ok.

 

Warren

[Greg]

The cascadian dark ale is supposed to be in the style of a dark IPA. Personally, i would increase the bitterness of the dark ale kit only slightly, perhaps do a 20 min boil instead of 10 mins and increase the finishing hops. If you dont like a "wow" in your face bitterness, leave as is.

[Trusty1]

I love the kit with 1kg dex and 500gms of LDM and nothing else.'

 

\xc7ept for a bit of yeast and water of course!

[LeonardC2]

When you make any kind of IPA,even a dark one,you don't merely add to the time of the tea made at the beginning. Boil 3 gallons of water till boil off leaves you with 2.5G.

Add the DME to the boil,stirring till clumps are dissolved. Then add 1st hop addition,setting timer for 25mins.

subtract 8mins & 30sec,then add next addition,etc till zero (flame out). Let steep for 5mins. Dry hop with equal amounts of each hop used in the boil.

For example,in my IPA,I added 1.5lbs (.681kg) of Munton's plain DME (in other words,half of a 3lb bag(1.362kg)) to the boil of 2.5 gallons of water. You'll get a mini hot break for 3mins or so after adding the DME.

Put 1st hop addition of 1.5oz (42.525g)in a hop sack in kettle,set timer for 25mins. 8mins & 30sec later,add another 42.525g of the second hop,count down another 8:30.

Then add 3rd hop addition of 42.525g of 3rd hop for remaining time. At flame out,steep 5mins.

Then,stir in remaining DME,then the cooper's OS Draught can.

Then,let steep for 15mins with the lid on.

Chill in ice water bath down to 20-ish Centigrade.

Proceed as normal,topping off to 23L. I got an OG of 1.050.

Use a blow of for 1st couple of days. It will have the color/malt profile of Dog Fish Head's IPA's.

And 6oz (170.1g) of hops isn't that much for an IPA. Also,they're all used in the last 25 mins as flavor & aroma additions,so you're not looking at a lot of bittering.

I call it "BuckIPA"...(Buckeye for "buckeye state",Ohio's nickname),hence The "I" in IPA also makes the "eye"sound in buckeye. You then have BuckIPA...

[Greg]

of course you can increase hop amounts and schedules at different times to get differnt things happening. But, when already using a pre-hopped tin, its not really necessary.

 

For example, the dark ale kit might be around 30IBU already diluted to 23 litres (not sure as in havent worked it out), so to increase the bittness of the tin, any high alpha acid hop will do boiled for 20-30 mins in a 1040 wort (i dont measure i guess). If you are using pellet hops, the majority of the bitterness will be extracted after 20-30 minutes. So the IBU count of the additional hops is obviously dependant on the amount and type of hops used and the wort that it is boiled in. I could and probably many others get into a chemistry lesson on how it all works, or, you could keep it simple and "trial and error" until you get it right for you.

 

For me, i dont like IPA's hence why i try and keep the bitterness moderate to moderately high - so 35-60IBU's for me is enough. IPA's are hoppy beers as well as bitter beers, but can be varied if you want lower alcohol beers to have more flavour.

 

Your recipe, to me, seems an unnecessary waste of hops for really no benifit. Increasing finishing hops (flavour and aroma) is probably all that you need, when using a kit. As i said, making a 20-30 min boil of a quantity of hops (to get your desired IBU's) is all that is necceary to increase the bitterness of the kit. But, hey, if you like wasting hops, go for it.

 

I say, keep it simple, and on a budget.

 

 

 

 

[LeonardC2]

of course you can increase hop amounts and schedules at different times to get differnt things happening. But, when already using a pre-hopped tin, its not really necessary.

 

For example, the dark ale kit might be around 30IBU already diluted to 23 litres (not sure as in havent worked it out), so to increase the bittness of the tin, any high alpha acid hop will do boiled for 20-30 mins in a 1040 wort (i dont measure i guess). If you are using pellet hops, the majority of the bitterness will be extracted after 20-30 minutes. So the IBU count of the additional hops is obviously dependant on the amount and type of hops used and the wort that it is boiled in. I could and probably many others get into a chemistry lesson on how it all works, or, you could keep it simple and "trial and error" until you get it right for you.

 

For me, i dont like IPA's hence why i try and keep the bitterness moderate to moderately high - so 35-60IBU's for me is enough. IPA's are hoppy beers as well as bitter beers, but can be varied if you want lower alcohol beers to have more flavour.

 

Your recipe, to me, seems an unnecessary waste of hops for really no benifit. Increasing finishing hops (flavour and aroma) is probably all that you need, when using a kit. As i said, making a 20-30 min boil of a quantity of hops (to get your desired IBU's) is all that is necceary to increase the bitterness of the kit. But, hey, if you like wasting hops, go for it.

 

I say, keep it simple, and on a budget.

 

 

 

Well,I hate to say it,but you're basically wrong. 30 minutes & less are flavor additions,10 minutes & less are aroma additions. It takes 45-60 minutes to get the bittering out of them. And the flavor/aroma to boil off.

And "pre-hopped" in the case of the OS cans is just a little bittering,nothing else. So,when I add a total of 3lbs (1.4kg) of plain light DME,I'm throwing the bittering off balance. So I add (usually) 2oz (60g) of flavor/aroma hops (low AA%)that don't give much bittering to start with.

And you'd be surprised at just how much hops are in American IPA's. My recipe is a piker by comparison. But the point you need to remember is,even though Columbus & Nugget are higher AA% (14.4 & 12AA%,respectively),they're not getting added long enough to extract all that bitterness potential.

And the Cascade is only 7.1%AA,so not much bittering there either,since,again,all 3 were used with a flavor/aroma time schedule that isn't long enough for very much bittering at all.

So,like American IPA's tend to be,There's a lot of hop flavor,but not a lot of bittering. Hope that clears things up. Cheers.

[Biermoasta]

Have a look at this graph: http://brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm

Even when boiling hops for flavour you will still extract bitterness. A 30 minute boil which you said is for flavour would extract 50% of possible maximum flavour yield and 50% of the possible maximum bitterness yield. So if you are steeping a fair amount of hops for 30 minutes to increase flavour, don't forget that it will also be adding bitterness.

[Greg]

Leonard,

 

Assuming you used Cascade at 7.1%AA for your IPA, on your boil, including all hop additions, you would have extracted approximatly 38.5IBU's on your 25 minute boil. If you boiled for 60 minutes only the first addition and left the other additions at the times it would have been on your original recipe, your IBU's would have been around 47 IBU's. So, this equates to:

 

25 min boil addition = 19 IBU

60 min boil addition = 27 IBU

 

Or 70% hops utilisation will be achieved at 25 mintues. Therefore, it really isnt necessary to boil (when using pellet hops) for 60 minutes. Its easier enough to adjust for 30%, or boil for 30 mins and obtain 77% utilisation and adjust for the additional 23% missing. This way, you still get the bitterness and the flavour and save on hops used in other additions.

 

Doing it this way, eliminates the need to waste excess hops for other additions at 15, 10, 5 minutes and flameout.

 

But of course you already new that, huh.

 

If you used Nugget for your hops in your receipe, at 12%AA, you would get approximatley 65IBU's. In addition to the 23IBU obtained from the OS Draught kit. But as you say, 65IBU's isnt bittering is it. It must be flavour and aroma.

 

Your argument is flawed Leonard. But, being a typical American, you are not open to suggestions or being told by someone other than your own nationality, that you are wrong.

 

As i said, if you like wasting hops and money, go for it.

 

/end rant

[weggl]

Maybe typical Aussies are rude[innocent]

 

Weggl

[Canadian Eh!L]

Well... I might take my ball and bat and go on home.[pouty] Before I do I thought I might share my dark ale recipe idea.

 

Lil' Ben's Brown Ale

 

1.7 OS Dark ale

500g LDM

500g BE1

200g "fancy" molasses

100g Crystal malt 20L

23L water

20g EKG 30mins

20g Fuggles 20mins

20g EKG dry hop

recultured yeast

 

 

Anyone's personal opinions or thoughts?

 

Canadian Eh!L[ninja]

[LeonardC2]

Ok,look. If you wanna learn where my reasoning comes from,goto home brew talk.com. They have folks a lot smarter than me doing a lot of things with hops,etc. you will not get tons of bittering from a shrt schedule of 25 minutes like I did.

I just wanted the flavor moreso than bittering. In the past I've noticed some bittering on a short time schedule. But mostly flavor.

To tell the truth,though,I used the Nugget only because the LHBS was out of some hops I'd rather have used. We'll see next month when it's ready.

And since some hops have a citrus quality,I'd imagine that could be mistaken for bitterness,with the other hop flavors involved...

[weggl]

Leonard, Why do you boil off 1/2 gal of water? Seems like a big waste of power to me. Or do you have so much crap in the water where you are that it takes that long to kill the bugs?

Weggl

[weggl]

I have a Coopers can of Dark malt extract and am wondering what to do with it.

Was thinking of a dark brew of sorts, but seeing that it is un-hopped I was thinking of say 25 cascade for 30 min to bitter it up.

I have plenty of WDME and DME and DDME AND quite a selection of hops.

Any ideas?

 

Warren

 

[Guest]

I just put in a dark ale, (hopped kit) put it in with

 

200g choc malt

400g dme

150g dex

150g dry Malt extract

200g Crystal malt

150g Carapils

Windsor yeast (rehydrated)

50g EKG flowers (they were a bit old so threw the lot in)

10g Northern brewer.

 

the thing finished in 3 days, 1036 - 1012

 

{disclaimer) this one is for the missus, ive been promising to do her a dark for about a year, finally got onto it.

 

Yob

[LeonardC2]

Leonard, Why do you boil off 1/2 gal of water? Seems like a big waste of power to me. Or do you have so much crap in the water where you are that it takes that long to kill the bugs?

Weggl

Idk about you guys down there,but electric stoves up here take forever to get to a boil. A good amount steams away by that time,usually half a gallon (a couple liters to you guys).

And,just for the record,I took my 1st FG test on the IPA yesterday morning. Went from 1.050 down to 1.011 so far,that's 5.7% at the moment.

And...gues what? IT'S NOT BITTER! Good flavor,citrus "tartness" as I said. I'm starting to thing that the acidic compounds that make citrus what they are is what also makes the particular flavor.

I say this because I know what "bittering" tastes like. This is "citrus tartness". Anyway,it has a nice lemon/grapefruit aroma,with a young malt flavor. The hops gave it a bright lemony/grapefruit flavor with bitter orange under that.

Some earthy/spice/herbal flavor tones on the back.

Pretty good so far,just like I described.