Toucan - dark ale + stout

[Reuben]

Looks like I spoke too soon. The yeasties have decided they aren't done yet. Brewing is an exercise in patience sometimes.

 

Coreys6, I don't see why this wouldn't turn out well scaled up to 44L. You should expect a pretty big Krausen during the first few days of fermentation though.

 

Would you use the kit yeast or the re-cultured commercial one?

[coreys6]

ye just kit yeast havent tryed the re-cultured yet nex thing i gotta try is bulk priming

 

[PhilboBaggins]

I just recultured my first batch of commercial yeast. It's easier than you might think. I'd urge anyone curious to give it a go.

 

Fun too. [happy]

[Reuben]

I'll be bottling this tonight. Once again the re-cultured Coopers yeast has done a great job. OG from 1.059 down to 1.011 and the sample tastes great!

 

After bottle conditioning I think it'll come out at around 6.5% ABV. I'll prime with 5.5 grams of dextrose per litre and will probably crack one open on New Years.[happy]

[Geno Poitini]

Just wanted to say thanks for this toucan recipe, was just brewing my 5th version of it, double checking the recipe on the post and made me think what a massive favourite this is..

 

I usually brew it to recipe, sometimes swap out the dextrose for BE2 cos it's more available in our supie and couple of times put like a third of a stick of brewing liquorice, 3cm in..

 

Always a winner, this is what I give friends to show off my home brew

 

 

[Afoolonahill]

Just wanted to say thanks for this toucan recipe' date=' was just brewing my 5th version of it, double checking the recipe on the post and made me think what a massive favourite this is..

 

I usually brew it to recipe, sometimes swap out the dextrose for BE2 cos it's more available in our supie and couple of times put like a third of a stick of brewing liquorice, 3cm in..

 

Always a winner, this is what I give friends to show off my home brew

 

[/quote']

 

hi all, doing a brew with my bro-in-law and using this thread's main recipe. I have a penchant for the choc, licorice and coffee flavours in a powerful stout; any suggestions for adding these flavours after the wart or am I just getting into dangerous territory there? I imagine adding such things to the bottle is a very touchy practise.

 

Thanks for helping a newbie

[Graculus]

While this thread is up the top I might as well ask a question too.

 

Now the weather is cooler I was planning on brewing a toucan. I've checked the temperature in my garage and it hasn't been above 20C all week. I was going to put a toucan in an FV with just a heat belt with an stc to keep it about 20C.

 

Now I have a Coopers Dark Ale, and a Morgans stout. I have to admit the stout was half price as it is 2 months out of date. I was going to use an 11g packet of Nottingham yeast. Will that be enough or should I add the kit yeast too?

 

The Coopers stout I made earlier this year is OK. I'm a bit disappointed that it has no head whatsoever though. Could I add something to the toucan to give it a bit of head?

 

I was going to add some dextrose, but I also have plenty of LDME around. Suggestions?

Could I add some grain to this too? I don't have any at the moment and probably wouldn't be able to get any until next Saturday.

 

cheers

 

 

[MarkC]

My first brew was Real Ale, brewed per instructions using a kilo of white sugar; nice clean beer, no taste, flat as a tack. When you read the FAQs, the reason for poor head is using too much simple sugar, which makes you question why the instructions are written that way.

As Waylon will point out, there's no problem with using sugar, but only a small amount. I'd go mainly for adding malts, with just a bit of dextrose.

The toucan foams like a mother when it gets going; it's heavy, so use the kit yeast as well, preferably rehydrated. Leave it in primary for at least 2 weeks, preferably 3.

Don't over prime, and leave it in bottle for a couple of months.

Enjoy!

[Graculus]

thanks MarkC.

 

I think the reason the original stout I made had no head, is that I only used just over half of the usual carbonation rate. That seemed to be what everyone was suggesting. I now realise it's because most people put their stout away for six months or so before drinking. All (at least I think all) of the stout recipes on the Coopers site suggest 2 carb drops per 750ml, or normal levels of carbonation.

 

I was going to leave it in the FV for at least three weeks. Then bulk prime say 10 litres at normal rate, and the remainder at just over half the normal rate.

 

I was hoping maybe adding a bit of grain might give it a bit more head.

* Actually just read on another site that someone has used Carapils for more head.

I was wondering about that.

[Redsproket]

I am planning on doing the Toucan Stout. Had some advice to have only 500g of dextrose.

 

what do you think 1kg or 500g?

 

1 Can of Cooper's dark ale

1 can of Cooper's stout

1 kg of dextrose

 

See Below

 

Also

 

Also, a tip with simple sugar is to add it after the yeast have consumed the malt sugars so it doesn't chew up the easy stuff first and give up on the harder sugars leaving a high FG. (I dissolve it in boiling water and cool it before adding)

 

Makes sense but I have newbie doubts.

 

All advice appreciated

 

RS

 

 

 

See Below.

 

If it were me making the recipe I would use the can of Stout and Dark but halve the dextrose to 500g. Simple sugars are okay in beer recipes but it’s usually best to keep them at 20% or less of the total recipe.

 

 

 

[Graculus]

Redsproket, I only ever put 500grams of dextrose at most in my toucans.

And I use both packets of yeast.

 

The one I've just finished drinking was

1 x Coopers Dark Ale kit

1 x Coopers Stout

250g Dextrose

150g Carapils

250g Choc Malt

 

But to be honest even leaving out the Carapils and choc malt it's still good.

 

I'm going to put another one on this week. I have Choc malt but not carapils

so I'll just go with what I have.

 

This is a favourite amongst my friends.

In fact I've run out of recently brewed toucans as a mate took thirty bottles

in return some electrical work. I'm going to rummage in the back of the garage

tomorrow and find the six month old stuff I was keeping for the winter.

There's eighty odd bottles there in boxes.

[ChristinaS1]

I agree with the advice to keep the dextrose to 20% or less of the recipe.

 

FYI, you can use the Brewer's Friend recipe calculator (free) to figure out percentages of ingredients. Just remember that LME and kits are 20% water, so to convert to DME equivalent multiply the weight of the LME by 0.8.....I just did this for you and for a toucan 20% is 680gm of dextrose.

 

Of course, you could use 1kg of dextrose if you want; you are the king of your brewery. That would bring you up to 27%. Bear in mind that it will thin the body of your beer and dry it out as well.

 

As to whether you should wait with adding the dextrose until day two or three, that is up to you. It is important in high gravity brewing, but the gravity of this recipe isn't super high. If you are using Cooper's yeast (recommended) it probably isn't necessary, although if you are using S-04 it might be a good idea.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Graculus]

As I said I don't use much dextrose myself.

 

I've read a bit about people making toucans and using malt and also using hops.

It makes me wonder if the flavour of the malt or hops would come through though.

Somehow I think it's a waste and not sure I'd be willing to try it.

[Redsproket]

Thank you to Graculus & ChristinaS1 so much for the great suggestions. I am not sure how to reply individually yet so hope this works, still learning.

 

I will dive in and proceed now with some more confidence, this will be my third ever brew and I am loving the learning process.

 

I am needing to be sure I have nailed the cleaning and sterilisation processes, then full steam ahead.

 

RS

[Abel]

Hello,

My first ever brew is currently under way

1 can stout

1 can dark ale

1kg dextrose

1kg light malt

400g lactose

15g Morgans English ale yeast

Total volume is 24L

Pitched at 24c

Fermented at 21-14c

 

This is a very bitter recipe even tho fermentation hasn't finished

 

Make sure to brew at 18-21c

Use 500g lactose instead

Maybe use both kit yeasts instead of the one because it's stopped fermenteing half way through....

should I add a second yeast? Gravity is 1.04 on day 4 and 5 from og was 1.069

[ChristinaS1]

Hello' date='

My first ever brew is currently under way

1 can stout

1 can dark ale

1kg dextrose

1kg light malt

400g lactose

15g Morgans English ale yeast

Total volume is 24L

 

This is a very bitter recipe even tho fermentation hasn't finished

 

Make sure to brew at 18-21c

Use 500g lactose instead

Maybe use both kit yeasts instead of the one because it's stopped fermenteing half way through....

should I add a second yeast? Gravity is 1.03 on day 4 and 5 from og was 1.065[/quote']

 

Hi Abel. Welcome to the forum.

 

That is an ambitious recipe for a new brewer!

 

Was that OG a hydrometer reading? It is great that you are using your hydrometer, but it is still a good idea to punch your recipe into brewing software to see what OG to expect, since sometimes ingredients don't get thoroughly mixed. When I punch your recipe into Ian H's spread sheet it tells me your OG was around 1.082....Ian H's spreadsheet is a good one for kit and bits brewers. It is available for free on the Aussie Home Brewers site, but you have to join the forum to be able to download it.

 

It is also a good idea to get into the habit of punching your calculated OG into a pitching rate calculator like Mr Malty, which can give guidance on how much yeast to use. Mr Malty tells me that with an OG of 1.082 you should have used 21gm of rehydrated yeast, assuming it was very fresh. If it was older, you would have needed even more. If you sprinkled it on dry you potentially killed 50% of the cells, but even if rehydrated, your brew was under-pitched.

 

We are not sure what Morgans English ale yeast is exactly, but it is probably something like S-04. If so your FG should be around 1.023 (~8.1% ABV), so you are not far off. You are still only on day 5.

 

I would suggest you do two things:

 

1.) take a small pot, put ~ 1 cup of water in it, add 1 teaspoon of baker's or brewer's yeast (perhaps one of your kit yeast), and boil it for 3-5 minutes. What you have done is create something called yeast hulls. They absorb the toxins of metabolism and are used to restart stuck fermentations. Pour this into your brew.

 

2.) give the brew a gentle stir and then raise the temp 2C. Wait two days and recheck your gravity. If it has not changed, you can rehydrate one of your kit yeast for 30 minutes and add this. Very important to rehydrate the yeast. If you just sprinkle it on dry it won't work; dry yeast cannot rehydrate in the presence of alcohol; it will kill them.

 

For future reference, if using S-04 I would brew it at 20C, even in smaller gravity ales. It has a reputation for stalling when used <20C.

 

Good luck,

 

Christina.

 

PS If you make this recipe again, you might consider waiting until day 3 to add the dextrose. No need to dissolve it, just dump it in in powdered form.

 

PPS Big beers like this generally need to age a while, maybe six months, for the bitterness and alcohol to mellow out, although you can certainly taste the odd bottle before that, to see how it is coming along. Be careful not to over-prime your bottles.

[Abel]

Hello' date='

My first ever brew is currently under way

1 can stout

1 can dark ale

1kg dextrose

1kg light malt

400g lactose

15g Morgans English ale yeast

Total volume is 24L

 

This is a very bitter recipe even tho fermentation hasn't finished

 

Make sure to brew at 18-21c

Use 500g lactose instead

Maybe use both kit yeasts instead of the one because it's stopped fermenteing half way through....

should I add a second yeast? Gravity is 1.03 on day 4 and 5 from og was 1.065[/quote']

 

Hi Abel. Welcome to the forum.

 

That is an ambitious recipe for a new brewer!

 

Was that OG a hydrometer reading? It is great that you are using your hydrometer, but it is still a good idea to punch your recipe into brewing software to see what OG to expect, since sometimes ingredients don't get thoroughly mixed. When I punch your recipe into Ian H's spread sheet it tells me your OG was around 1.082....Ian H's spreadsheet is a good one for kit and bits brewers. It is available for free on the Aussie Home Brewers site, but you have to join the forum to be able to download it.

 

It is also a good idea to get into the habit of punching your calculated OG into a pitching rate calculator like Mr Malty, which can give guidance on how much yeast to use. Mr Malty tells me that with an OG of 1.082 you should have used 21gm of rehydrated yeast, assuming it was very fresh. If it was older, you would have needed even more. If you sprinkled it on dry you potentially killed 50% of the cells, but even if rehydrated, your brew was under-pitched.

 

We are not sure what Morgans English ale yeast is exactly, but it is probably something like S-04. If so your FG should be around 1.023 (~8.1% ABV), so you are not far off. You are still only on day 5.

 

I would suggest you do two things:

 

1.) take a small pot, put ~ 1 cup of water in it, add 1 teaspoon of baker's or brewer's yeast (perhaps one of your kit yeast), and boil it for 3-5 minutes. What you have done is create something called yeast hulls. They absorb the toxins of metabolism and are used to restart stuck fermentations. Pour this into your brew.

 

2.) give the brew a gentle stir and then raise the temp 2C. Wait two days and recheck your gravity. If it has not changed, you can rehydrate one of your kit yeast for 30 minutes and add this. Very important to rehydrate the yeast. If you just sprinkle it on dry it won't work; dry yeast cannot rehydrate in the presence of alcohol; it will kill them.

 

For future reference, if using S-04 I would brew it at 20C, even in smaller gravity ales. It has a reputation for stalling when used <20C.

 

Good luck,

 

Christina.

 

PS If you make this recipe again, you might consider waiting until day 3 to add the dextrose. No need to dissolve it, just dump it in in powdered form.

 

PPS Big beers like this generally need to age a while, maybe six months, for the bitterness and alcohol to mellow out, although you can certainly taste the odd bottle before that, to see how it is coming along. Be careful not to over-prime your bottles.

 

Thanks a trillion christina . It was a refractometer reading and the temperature wasn't a bit above but that's still a big difference... not all of the malt dissolved but should have been enough, maybe I need to calibrate it. You have just thought me a ton and it was super fast!!! I'll get back to you with what happens! All credit goes to you and I'll be sure to use all your new methods! Thank you!

And yes I did sprinkle the yeast in dry, that's what all the instructions Iv seen have said :/. oops ahhaha but thank you for teaching me.

[ChristinaS1]

You're very welcome Abel.

 

BTW, Brix/SG refractometers are no good for taking FG readings. They are thrown off by the presence of alcohol. A hydrometer is better. Before doing anything, you should check the gravity with a hydrometer. Make sure to test/calibrate the hydrometer in distilled water the first time you use it; it should read zero at whatever temp the hydrometer is made for.

 

Dry pitching is advice targeted towards beginners. It is not optimal. If you look at the websites of Lallemand, Fermentis, and Mangrove Jack's, you'll see. Lallemand does not recommend dry pitching at all, not even for beginners.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Abel]

Your welcome Abel. BTW' date=' Brix/SG refractometers are no good for taking FG readings. They are thrown off by the presence of alcohol. A hydrometer is better. Before doing anything, you should check the gravity with a hydrometer.

 

Dry pitching is advice targeted towards beginners. It is not optimal. If you look at the websites of Lallemand, Fermentis, and Mangrove Jack's, you'll see. Lallemand does not recommend dry pitching at all, not even for beginners.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina. [/quote']

Sorry for the bother but since I won't have a hydrometer for a bit and I only pitched 15g yeast dry would it make sense that I added 1tsp or a whole nother packet and just give it an extra week? Or even just half a packet? Thanks again

[ChristinaS1]

You could follow the advice I gave before, to add boiled yeast, stir, and raise the temp. If the airlock does not start bubbling again, then add a packet of rehydrated kit yeast in 48 hours. And yes, give it another week after that.

 

Cheers,

 

Christina.

[Quokka]

Actually, I think the main problem is you allowed the temperature to drop too low.

 

You certainly underpitched for the beer you have attempted to brew and you can certainly add yeast if you are careful. Fill a jug or glass with boiling water, cover with cling wrap and cool it below 30C in the fridge, then tip all but 100 ml out. Add a packet of Coopers Kit yeast or you can get yeast for starting stuck fermentations at a good LHBS (actually a wine yeast that can handle high gravity/alcohol and is pretty neutral.) The yeast will form a cream that can be pitched once it is within about 5 degrees of the wort.

 

Try to keep the beer at a steady temperature towards the top of the yeast's range for the rest of the brew. This type of beer should also be allowed to rest about a week after you get the two days of steady reading if you are going to bottle, though for that you can allow it to cool to say 12-14 degrees.

[Morrie]

I wouldn't re-hydrate any less than 15 mins and any more than 30mins. After 30 mins the yeast will start to use up its stress protectant Trehalose. LINK

[Quokka]

I'm not about to buy the article, but I doubt it really supports your view Morrie. Rehydration is not a particularly stressful situation and other evidence suggests it just goes back to sleep, but not within an hour by which time it is sure to be ready to pitch.

[Morrie]

Rehydration of yeast for longer than 30 minutes and it begins to consume its trehalose reserves which will affect its viability when pitching into wort. That's why most yeast companies recommend to pitch in the 15 to 30 minute window and a maximum of an hour.

[Otto Von Blotto]

The same thing happens with liquid yeast when it is allowed to warm up and sit at room temp for hours before pitching it. This is why I now only take the yeast out of the fridge when it's pitching time and pitch it cold straight into the wort. I began getting much shorter lag times when I started doing this, about half what they were when the yeast were allowed to warm up for ages. In yeast starters they get going in a matter of a couple of hours.