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Bottle filling level


Ramjet

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Over the years, I've never been fully convinced that my brews were carbing up properly. I use one of those filling tubes ("Little Bottler" ?) with the plunger at the bottom, that fits on to the tap of the FV.

 

Using this, the highest brew level I can achieve in a heavy glass bottle (the older style with the proper crown seal lip on them) is about 68mm from the top of the bottle (give or take a millimetre or two.)

 

Is this a 'normal' fill level? I've considered following up with a funnel and top-up jug to raise the level a bit, but that's too much stuffing around.

 

I use raw sugar to prime each bottle, and use 6g per tallie.

 

The brews have life, and bubbles liberated from the beer when it's in the glass, but just not as much as I'd hoped.

 

 

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Roger, I use 330 ish ml bottles. I get about 52 mm headspace using the filler tube. I also use carb drops, one for 330 mls. I am really happy with the carb level but it seems to take about 2 weeks before the gas settles in nicely. Do you let the filler go until the beer is just about to flow over then just lower the bottle swiftly?

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Hi Phil - had to have a quick think about the reduced headspace in the stubbies (this time of night and all), but of course it's to do with the reduced length of the filler pipe in the stubby compared with the tallie.

 

So the moment the beer is about to overflow, and the bottle swiftly lowered to stop the flow (which is what I do, to answer your question), in the tallie there's about 270mm of filler tube which is displacing brew, compared with around 200mm in a stub. So that extra 70mm length of tube, about 12mm diameter (guessing here, as it's out in the brew shed, and I'm not!) equals about 8ml of volume. (Bear with me here [rightful] )

 

Assuming the necks of both bottle types at the bottom of the headspace are about the same diameter (say 24mm on average), then 8ml in a 24mm dia column represents a height of about 17mm! Which accounts for you getting a headspace of 52mm in the stubs, and me about 68mm in the tallies. Whew, didn't take long did it!!! [roll]

 

So I guess the question is, then, would it be worth the effort to top the tallies up a bit so the secondary fermentation would create a little more pressure?

 

And just when I thought I had it all worked out, I've just realised the percentage of headspace in the stub compared with the tallie, is probably about the same - 52mm in 330ml vs 68mm in 750mm. So maybe I'll just live with that and go to bed. [biggrin]

 

 

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I don't think it makes any difference to the carbonation level where you fill it to, to a point anyway. When you're talking about up at the neck of the bottle, a few millimetres is really negligible. I've actually bottled half a stubbie before and noticed no real difference compared to full ones.

 

There are some people out there who think that the amount of beer in the bottle determines how much CO2 is produced. I fail to see any logic in this. The CO2 is produced by the yeast fermenting the sugar - it's the amount of sugar in the bottle that determines how much CO2 there is. If there is more headspace and less beer it just means there is more space for CO2 to sit out of solution and less beer for it to dissolve in so theoretically once it reaches equilibrium it should have the same level of carbonation regardless of where the bottle is filled to.

 

I don't know how that works in practice apart from those couple of half filled stubbies that didn't exhibit any drastic change in carb levels compared to full ones but I don't think there's any point worrying about a few millimetres in the neck. My stubbies are all filled to varying levels in the neck and they all carbonate to the same level as each other.[cool]

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So I guess the question is' date=' then, would it be worth the effort to top the tallies up a bit so the secondary fermentation would create a little more pressure?[/quote']

What I meant here was to have less air, therefore more pressure (as liquid won't compress) and thus a bit more CO2 dissolved.

 

One of my ancient home brew 'bibles' recommended filling tallies to "about 1" or 2" from the top". I'd be wary of reducing the headspace to less than 50mm.

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I really don't think it'd make any difference. Even though there might be more CO2 dissolved, there's also more beer for it to dissolve in.

 

I reckon do an experiment. Get 3 bottles, bottle one 70mm from the top, one 60mm and one 50mm. Give them a month to ensure they're carbonated. Then pour all three into three glasses at the same time, put a blind fold on and get your other half to hand you the glasses one at a time and see if you notice any difference. If you do, just pick whatever you like the best and bottle them at that level from then on.[cool]

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Sounds like the plan -- I'll do it!

 

Just bottled my Steam Beer yesterday afternoon (which kind of prompted the question), but next one will be a Mr Sinister, so when that's done and got some bottle age, I'll set aside a free afternoon to test (all in the name of science) the carbonation levels of 3 tallies of stout. [devil] [devil] [devil]

 

I think by the end of the third one, I might need my other half to pass them to me, and it probably won't matter by then whether I'm blindfolded or not. [smile] [sleeping]

 

I could always share them, of course! Maybe I'll need some of you coastal lads to come up to the farm and help me decide....

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Of course if you wanted to be really scientific about it, you'd need to be 100% certain that you put exactly the same amount of sugar in each bottle for carbonation; carb drops tend to vary a little in size, so you'd need to have a steady hand and a very reliable and accurate measuring device.

For my mind I just use carb drops and fill close to the top; when it comes to the little stuff like carbing I find near enough is good enough; horses for courses though.

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I always fill the bottle as much as possible cant see the sence in not using all the space and ending up with a couple of extra partly filled bottles after. Can see why some people dont want to stuff around and have a steralised partly filled bottle that i use to top up each one it is a pain and i dislike it but still do.

Although i must say the only stubbie you dont have to do it with is vb because its short and fat the bottle filler doesnt effect the level as much.

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Roger. I suggest adjusting the amount of sugar you use in a few bottles also. You might be able to hit your sweet spot on carb levels that way. Run an experiment similar to what Kelsey suggested, except this time fill several bottles to the same level but add increasing amounts of sugar and see which you liked best that way.

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...adjusting the amount of sugar you use in a few bottles also.

Hi Phil - Another good idea there, although I'll be storing the 7g and 8g primed bottles individually in sturdy cartons in the shed.

 

The other thing that's eluded me is the best way to clean my beer glasses. Typically, every week or so, I'll get some Bottle Washing Powder and a clean plastic scourer and give the glasses a good clean, followed by a hot rinse, and air dry. It certainly degrades the head and apparent carbonation if the brew is poured into a 'greasy' glass. I believe that normal dishwashing detergent is not conducive to a good 'beer glass'.

 

So apart from ensuring your beer glass is dry when you pour, do you gents and ladies have any glass-cleaning tips?

 

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Roger. I double carb drop(ped) a 500ml bottle recently and its still standing OK, granted its the only one I have done like this so far. Coopers recommend sugar 8g per litre, i.e. 6 g for 750 ml or 3g for 375 ml. Don't think that you will create too many grenades at 7 and 8 g if you are using 750's.

 

As for washing, I don't tend to need a Scotchbrite for glasses unless they just came home from the op shop.[wink] I like to just use a simple dishwashing detergent (we use Earth Choice) and clean your glasses before any other dishes and use a good bottlebrush. The most important part IMHO is to make sure you rinse thoroughly in HOT water and then drip dry. Don't dry with a tea-towel unless its a clean one. If its head you are concerned about there are several factors to consider. Not an expert here but my experience so far is better head = more time in the bottle > 2 weeks seems to improve the head and also the carbonation seems to change from a fewer large bubbles to more finer bubbles.

 

Also what you add in the way of adjuncts will improve the head. Others on the forum will be able to help you with this as I don't have much of an idea on that yet, although beer I made so far either pours a good head or "too much" head.

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Hi Roger, Philby,

For info. I've bottled a whole batch of the Coopers Canadian Blonde in 500ml PET bottles with two carb drops per bottle. I use one of those bottle filler tubes with the spring loaded valve on the end, filling to the brim before lowering the bottle from the tube and screwing on the cap.

I bottled around 3 1/2 weeks ago now and for the first 2 weeks + kept them around 70F/21C . They are now sat in a cool larder at around 55F/13C. No drama yet with the bottles as a result of two carb drops.

There is a definite apple taste to the beer which I am hoping will mellow with a few more weeks in the bottle. I used BE1 this time and sugar. Previous wheat beers used spray malt. I am wondering if the BE1 has caused the apple taste.

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Hi Hairy,

It was in the primary for a full two weeks. From what I can remember at around 24C/75F and with no change in FG for 5 or 6 days. It is a bit like green apples so perhaps acetaldehyde is the problem. Not cidery or vinegar though in taste, so hopefully it hasn't turned bad. The bottles feel as though they have carbed up more over the past few days and I moved a couple to the fridge yesterday morning for sampling this evening. I will report back.

Hoping the two carb drops have really given it some sparkle.

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