PhilbyT Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I couldn't find a thread to bump with this subject line so here goes. I saw a thread a while ago about fav recipes from the how to brew page and there was a lot of responses to the fruit salad ale as a fav. With the warmer weather here I wanted to try this one, less fighting with the ambient temperature when fermenting since it can be a higher temp ferment type. My question is, has anyone tinkered with the brewing of this at different temps and/or different yeasts e.g. coopers re-acivated? Did you find significant ester changes and what was good or bad? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 IMHO, this would taste vastly better fermented at 18 deg than 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 IMHO' date=' this would taste vastly better fermented at 18 deg than 24[/quote'] Taste is subjective from one person to another, but in the case of this recipe, the banana esters produced by the yeast are a wanted flavour in the end beer. These flavours combined with the citrus & stone fruit flavours provided by the Amarillo & Cascade, mingle well with each other to produce the overall flavour of the beer. Hence the name "Fruit Salad" Ale. If you ferment this brew at 18\xb0C with the CCA yeast, you will greatly reduce the impact of what flavours the yeast will contribute into the mix, thus really not producing the beer as it is intended. If you don't want the banana like esters, then I wouldn't even bother re-activating the CCA yeast for the brew, I'd just use something clean like US-05 so that all you taste is the Cascade & Amarillo mix. I brewed my Fruit Salad Ale with the CCA yeast @ 22\xb0C. I only lowered mine to 22\xb0C, as I've used the yeast a number of times now & knew I'd get a good banana ester influence at that temperature. It turned out to be a lovely beer, that a number of the guys here on the forum also sampled & agreed. [cool] With most ale brews, I would normally agree with Nick in a case like this about the best temperature to brew it at being the 18\xb0C mark. However in this case, the higher temp is the better option IMHO, & true to what flavours the beer is aimed at producing. Good luck with which ever way you decide to go PhilbyT. [wink] Cheers, Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbyT Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thanks Lusty. I was looking for indicators of the intended style. The blurb with the recipe says you might get that effect. I didn't want to just end up with similar to Cascarillo which I just made. I might of said I [love] Amarillo elsewhere, same for me with Cascade, but want to try them in a different way this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny's Juice Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I've just mixed this brew up on monday night, as I've only got a bucket of water and frozen water bottle to keep it cool its sitting between 22C-24C, this is my first try at using hops in a brew so fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanE Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 It turned out to be a lovely beer' date=' that a number of the guys here on the forum also sampled & agreed. [cool'] +1 One of the lucky samplers and fully agree. [biggrin] However in this case' date=' the higher temp is the better option IMHO, & true to what flavours the beer is aimed at producing.[/quote'] I couldn't agree with this more Lusty. I did my Fruit Salad Ale at about 24C with somewhat limited temperature control and I am very happy with the result which I am just beginning to sample now. As mentioned taste is subjective, but can make the difference between a good and great beer in the style. At the risk of going a bit OT I have recently done two Saisons, one as per the How to Brew instructions and the other with budget ingredients but fermented at close to 30C with the same yeast. The first is OK but the latter is sensational (in comparison) [whistling . The experimentation is great, fun and relatively cheap. The worst case scenario is that you'll end up with a mediocre beer and that's no real drama as the bottle shops are full of them that cost a lot more. [bandit] go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbyT Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Dylan, thanks, did you use reactivated CCY? Sounds like 24 is not over the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Hi PhilbyT. I didn't want to just end up with similar to Cascarillo which I just made. The Cascarillo is an amber malt based beer that gives a fuller bodied & sweeter malt base than you will experience once tasting the Fruit Salad Ale. Two very different beers that I can see you are looking for. The malt character takes a "back seat" (for a better phrase) in the Fruit Salad Ale, & the yeast & hop combo become the dominant aspects of the beer. [cool] Hi DJ. ...I've only got a bucket of water and frozen water bottle to keep it cool its sitting between 22C-24C If you can maintain that temperature throughout primary fermentation, you're going to end up with a very nice beer at the business end. [wink] Hi Dylan. You've been off the scene for a little while. I was beginning to think Aliens had abducted you [alien], or that I had inadvertently poisoned you with the other beers I gave you! [lol] I'm glad to hear that your version of the Fruit Salad Ale has turned out so well. [happy] I really began to enjoy it at approx. 6 weeks bottled. Roughly the time I think I gave out those samples. [unsure] The experimentation is great' date=' fun and relatively cheap. The worst case scenario is that you'll end up with a mediocre beer and that's no real drama as the bottle shops are full of them that cost a lot more. Bandit go for it.[/quote'] +1 As your knowledge & brewing experience grows, those "mediocre" failure type beers, aren't mediocre anymore, they are good beers. It's just that the one's you get right are GREAT beers. [wink] Cheers & good brewing guys. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilbyT Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Good one Lusty. Similar hops different overall flavour, I like the idea of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzacpaul Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Is there an alternative to the cca yeast that will give banana esters? I'm having a break from drinking atm and as such can't get access to CCA yeast. I have some US-05 and the APA kit yeast available, but can get some other types from the LHBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Is there an alternative to the cca yeast that will give banana esters? I'm having a break from drinking atm and as such can't get access to CCA yeast. I have some US-05 and the APA kit yeast available' date=' but can get some other types from the LHBS[/quote'] Some Wheat beer yeasts and (possibly) some English yeasts throw banana phenols. But a wheat yeast would alter the taste of the beer too much. I have made the Fruit Salad ale with US-05 and it was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payno Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi All The Fruit Salad Ale was one of my first ever brews and didn't work out for me unfortunately. It was before I had a brew fridge and we had some unseasonally warm weather - I came home to find it fermenting at 26c+, as the recipe suggested 24 I didn't worry too much. To say that the banana flavour from the yeast was overpowering is an understatement! -...mine is all banana and no citrus and almost brown in colour. Unfortunately it hasn't got better over time - I have a few bottles left, will prob keep the stubbies as I can handle 1 every now and then but cant do the long-necks. However, a friend of mine in Adelaide brewed it and got a completely different result. Clearly his didn't get as warm and he used dry malt extract whereas I think I used liquid. His has a subtle fruit salad blend and is quite palatable...whereas mine is not. I guess the fermenting temp does have a considerable effect on the yeast esters in this brew so I would watch the temp Cheers Payno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzacpaul Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thanks payno, that's been my main problem with getting brews up and going - the heat here in Adelaide at the moment. Picked the worst time to get into home brew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thanks payno' date=' that's been my main problem with getting brews up and going - the heat here in Adelaide at the moment. Picked the worst time to get into home brew [img']ninja[/img] If there is a chance that fermentation may get slightly warm then I would run with the kit yeast. I think this is a hardy yeast that is more tolerant and forgiving of slightly higher temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Is there an alternative to the cca yeast that will give banana esters? I'm having a break from drinking atm and as such can't get access to CCA yeast. I have some US-05 and the APA kit yeast available' date=' but can get some other types from the LHBS[/quote'] Some Wheat beer yeasts and (possibly) some English yeasts throw banana phenols. But a wheat yeast would alter the taste of the beer too much. +1 I ventured down that lane once & tried the Wyeast 3333 German Wheat on this recipe due to the banana ester reference in the yeasts' description. It threw banana esters alright, but by the same token it made a true wheat beer! I have made the Fruit Salad ale with US-05 and it was fine. 'Fine' is an appropriate word to use' date=' but if you use US-05 you'll only ever get 2/3 of the beers intended flavours & aromas. [img']rightful[/img] I suppose if you're a Meatloaf kinda guy, ! Now there's a guy that invested heavily into the continuation of poultry farming! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnaman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Now there's a guy that invested heavily into the continuation of poultry farming! Lusty.[/size] What did you say about ducks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hiya MM! Now there's a guy that invested heavily into the continuation of poultry farming! Lusty.[/size] What did you say about ducks. In my defence though' date=' I'm not 'beaking off' about them all the time! [img']tongue[/img] Hehe! Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzacpaul Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thanks guys I might just stick with the kit yeast or give in a get a 6 pack of Mild Ale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR84 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 I bottled my fruit salad ale about two weeks ago but it's pretty terrible. It has a really harsh bitter yeast flavour. APA can and yeast 1.5kg of light dry malt 0.2kg dextrose 22 degrees for 12 days It started within 24 hours and only took a few days to finish. It then sat for a week. It carbed up after about 4 or 5 days and I tried one after about 7. I haven't used the APA kit before and because it has wheat in it I thought it wouldn't clear completely. Is that right? It's not really cloudy but it's not crystal clear. The bottles have about 5 mm of sediment in the bottom tips. Am I just tasting yeast that hasn't settled yet or is this just green beer? I don't want to open another one yet cause if it's not a lot better it will just go down the sink. I didn't expect it to be great after a week but it's truly terrible. Any help would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Hi JR84 & welcome to the forum. In an effort to better understand what you are tasting in the bottle right now, I need a little more info. 22 degrees for 12 days It started within 24 hours and only took a few days to finish. It then sat for a week. It carbed up after about 4 or 5 days and I tried one after about 7. How many days total was the brew in the FV for? How many days total has the beer been in the bottle? Do you ferment your beer using any form of temperature control' date=' or do you ferment under ambient conditions? How did you determine the brew was finished fermenting? What was your Final Gravity reading for the brew? Did you use the Cascade & Amarillo hops? I bottled my fruit salad ale about two weeks ago but it's pretty terrible. It has a really harsh bitter yeast flavour....The bottles have about 5 mm of sediment in the bottom tips. If the brew has not been under any form of temperature control, the brew may have elevated well above 22°C during the ferment & this can speed up ferment time & have the yeast create some harsh estery tones. 5mm is a decent amount of sediment to end up with in your bottles, which leads me to believe the beer may have been bottled before allowing sufficient time for the yeast to cleanup after themselves & clear the beer. More definitive suggestions on what may have happened with the beer can be likely be offered once we have answers to the above. PB2's BEER TRIANGLE: Thorough Sanitation + Fresh Ingredients + Appropriate Ferment Temp = QUALITY BEER Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR84 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Hi JR84 & welcome to the forum. In an effort to better understand what you are tasting in the bottle right now' date=' I need a little more info. 22 degrees for 12 days It started within 24 hours and only took a few days to finish. It then sat for a week. It carbed up after about 4 or 5 days and I tried one after about 7. How many days total was the brew in the FV for? How many days total has the beer been in the bottle? Do you ferment your beer using any form of temperature control, or do you ferment under ambient conditions? How did you determine the brew was finished fermenting? What was your Final Gravity reading for the brew? Did you use the Cascade & Amarillo hops? I bottled my fruit salad ale about two weeks ago but it's pretty terrible. It has a really harsh bitter yeast flavour....The bottles have about 5 mm of sediment in the bottom tips. If the brew has not been under any form of temperature control' date=' the brew may have elevated well above 22°C during the ferment & this can speed up ferment time & have the yeast create some harsh estery tones. 5mm is a decent amount of sediment to end up with in your bottles, which leads me to believe the beer may have been bottled before allowing sufficient time for the yeast to cleanup after themselves & clear the beer. More definitive suggestions on what may have happened with the beer can be likely be offered once we have answers to the above. [u']PB2's BEER TRIANGLE[/u]: Thorough Sanitation + Fresh Ingredients + Appropriate Ferment Temp = QUALITY BEER Cheers, Lusty. Was in the FV for 12 days under ambient conditions and has now been in the bottle for 12 days. The temp was 22 during the first few days and dropped to 20 after the ferment activity disappeared. The coopers hydrometer is out but the readings were consistent over a number of days and it had looked to have cleared. It also tasted OK from memory. Yes I used the hops as per the recipe and also dry hopped with 10 grams of each after 5 days. This isn't an estery taste it's just really bitter. I remember tasting the sample and thinking it was a lot fat yak but with hint more bitterness and that should settle a little in the bottle and become perfect but it seems to have gotten worse. I soak with aldi napisan and wash with a new chux then I flush with boiling water followed by a rinse with starsan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Concentrating on the excessive bitterness for a moment, the only way that could end up over the top would be if the hops were boiled for a period of time or they were held at over 80°C for a lengthy period. Not insinuating anything, but did you steep the hops in water OFF the boil as outlined, or did you boil the hops for the 30mins? Just checking. I've brewed this beer recipe, & it is a lovely beer, so am just trying to find out what has happened in your case. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR84 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Concentrating on the excessive bitterness for a moment' date=' the only way that could end up over the top would be if the hops were boiled for a period of time or they were held at over 80°C for a lengthy period. Not insinuating anything, but did you steep the hops in water OFF the boil as outlined, or did you boil the hops for the 30mins? [img']unsure[/img] Just checking. I've brewed this beer recipe, & it is a lovely beer, so am just trying to find out what has happened in your case. Cheers, Lusty. I thought that would be the next question lol. No they were steeped in 3 litres of water that had just been taken off the boil for what ended up being 35 minutes. I actually kept a thermometer in the water to see how long it stayed above 86. It was 4 minutes. I'm really confused why it tastes so bad as I have been lurking here for months and thought I had covered all the bases. When I tasted the last gravity sample it was good. It was a touch bitter, a touch sweet and very orange tasting from the hops. I was impressed and figured it would end up about right after a few weeks in the bottle. I guess I'll just have to leave it a few more weeks to see if it improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerlust Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Gravity samples can be very misleading, & given nothing stands out to me with the information you have provided (apart from an inconclusive FG reading), I'd simply give the beer more time to age as conditioning time will help to smooth out & mellow many early greenish tasting areas of any newly brewed & bottled beer. If the beer is still displaying an array of negative aspects in 3-4 weeks time, then one could say something has definitely gone amiss. If it were me, I'd quickly move onto brewing another beer & sample this current beer intermittently over the period outlined in the hope for improvement. Cheers, Lusty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR84 Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Gravity samples can be very misleading' date=' & given nothing stands out to me with the information you have provided (apart from an inconclusive FG reading), I'd simply give the beer more time to age as conditioning time will help to smooth out & mellow many early greenish tasting areas of any newly brewed & bottled beer. If the beer is still displaying an array of negative aspects in 3-4 weeks time, then one could say something has definitely gone amiss. If it were me, I'd quickly move onto brewing another beer & sample this current beer intermittently over the period outlined in the hope for improvement. Cheers, Lusty.[/quote'] Thanks for the help. Yeah I don't bother with gravity readings as the coopers hydrometer is off. I do use it to check that it is stable though and it was 1.012 for at least three days. I previously brewed the Mexican kit and it came out fine despite being weak cause I only used BE1. This brew was done under the same conditions and the only difference was it probably took about an extra day for the krausten to drop. Is it possible that gently squeezing the hops after straining them into the fermenter to get most of the liquid out would cause extra acids to come out? I've already got another brew on the go so hopefully this one turns out better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.