Bulk Priming Calulators

[LukeH15]

Gday

 

This is my first post on a forum and I am here to improve my beer as much as possible so any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

I have some questions regarding bulk priming. So far I am achieving great results, however, carbonation is my downfall.

 

I have just started to bulk prime my beers and I am needing some advice as some of the online calculators confuse me.

 

I primed a Coopers Wheat beer fermented at 18deg with 180g of dextrose and it fine, happy days.

 

Next I primed a Coopers Pale Ale fermented at 18deg with 180g dextrose and its super gassie. After I bottled this batch I had two days of tempreture in the high 30s (my house is on stilts and I keep my beers under the house so my beer never gets sunlight).

 

Would I be correct for thinking that the extra heat over stimulated the remaining yeast in my bottles toproduce too much carbonation??

 

 

 

I mixed the dex in 500ml of water and boil for 5 mins, transfer to 2nd vessel and add beer on top through a hose from 1st vessel.

 

On the priming calculators, when they ask for the temperature, do you just put in the fermentation temp??

 

What temp should I put in for a Pilsner or Lager when I ferment them at 12 deg then raise the temp to 18 deg for a diacytle rest for 48 hours?

 

Thanks for reading and thanks for any advice

 

Cheers

[Hairy]

You should get the same carbonation if you are using the same amount of sugar to prime with. And the wheat and pale ale are close enough in style to give a similar carbonation feel from the same priming rate.

 

The only explanation I have is that the pale ale may not have been finished fermenting when you bottled and it continued to ferment in the bottle, along with fermenting the added sugar.

 

The extra heat may have carbonated the beer more quickly but it won't produce more CO2.

 

How warm were the bottles when you poured them? When cold, the CO2 is dissolved into the solution. If you poured the beer slightly warmer then it can foam up a bit more.

[Otto Von Blotto]

On the priming calculators, when they ask for the temperature, do you just put in the fermentation temp??

What temp should I put in for a Pilsner or Lager when I ferment them at 12 deg then raise the temp to 18 deg for a diacytle rest for 48 hours?

 

This is actually something I've been reading a bit about myself the last couple of days, as I keep getting batches over carbing. I don't think it's a unfinished ferment problem, as I'm checking the gravity, making sure it's stable and where I expect it to be for a given recipe, give or take a couple of points, before cold crashing it. I usually use about 150g dex for a 24 litre brew, which I wouldn't have thought would lead to over carbing in normal circumstances.

 

There are two arguments as to which temperature to use on those calculators, one is to use the highest temperature the beer got to, because whatever CO2 escapes at this temperature won't be re-absorbed even if the temperature goes down again.

 

The other argument is to use the temperature of the beer at the time of bottling, mainly when crash chilling it. The reason behind this is partly to do with what Hairy mentions about the CO2 being more readily dissolved into solution at colder temperatures. The argument is that the pressure drops inside the FV when it is crash chilled thereby pulling the CO2 in the headspace back into the beer. Of course, there has to actually be CO2 present in order for it to be dissolved, and it's anyone's guess how long it takes for it to dissolve fully and reach equilibrium.

 

Given my situation, I'm thinking it's possible that what I mentioned in the second argument is actually happening. I'm gonna try using less priming sugar, say around 125g, on my next batch, and see if that helps it with the over carbing. The bit I can't work out though is that it only ever seems to be noticeable about 3+ months after bottling. Before that, it's fine, but around that time frame it starts pouring great big massive foam heads that just don't dissipate. It doesn't foam up in the bottle when opened, just upon pouring into the glass.

 

It's bloody frustrating! [pinched] [bandit]

 

[LukeH15]

Cheers for the feedback guys.

 

Hairy, thanks for the info on carbonation, I live on Sunny Coast Qld and I was thinking that the extra heat up here might over carb all my beers I have stock piled. I feel much better now.

 

In regards to pouring I poured them really chilled, just the same as normal. I dont bottle untill I have final gravity for 3 days in a row, I learnt the hard way in regards to rushing it into the bottle. So maybe my scales were wrong or something else. Im super diligent of finished gravity after ruining a few batches, however humans make mistakes.

 

Relating to the temp on the calculator, I have a Pilsner fermenting now that I was planning on using around 120g dex to prime it which is close to Otto Van Blotto so it seems im on the right track. Regarding the 3+ month extra carb problem, I have the same situation. I have an amber ale that I used carb drops on and it was fine for two months, However now when I pour it into a glass it goes crazy and its very annoying.

 

Oh well, thanks for the advice Hairy and Otto Van Blotto

[Otto Von Blotto]

Do you also find that the extra carbonation ruins the flavour a bit? I've found that with mine. What I've started doing is to pour them into the glass and then stick the glass in the fridge for 5-10 minutes to let some of the excess out before I drink it, once it gets back to a normal carb level it tastes the way it should and the head is usually decreased enough to be able to drink the beer, rather than the foam.[lol]

 

I guess I can rule out infections given the beers taste completely fine, aside from the extra carb ruining it in the glass initially.

[LukeH15]

Ha ha ha, thats exactly what I do. I find that the carbonation sort of burns your mouth, like having coca cola in your mouth and not swallowing it! However, once I let it decant a little its happy days.

 

Ive been doing the same with the pale ale that is over carbonated also. Its just annoying that I have to prepare a beer 10-15 mins before I can drink it.

 

Im sipping on a Morgans Black that I primed with 165g dex 3 weeks ago and its delicious. Its doing my head in why the pale ale is so carbonated when my wheat and black are fine and the pale ale is not.

 

Cheers

[Otto Von Blotto]

Mine are always fine after only 3 weeks as well. It's when they sit longer that they tend to somehow increase in carbonation.

 

When I bottle the English pale I have in the FV I'm gonna apply the theory of it absorbing some of the headspace CO2 during crash chilling, and use less dex (about 125-130g) to see if that makes any difference to it.

 

Funny thing though, I brewed some batches of lager during winter, all of which were crash chilled or 'lagered' for a few weeks before bottling, and I used about 180g dex in those for priming and not one of them turned out over carbed.

 

The mystery continues. [lol]

[Hairy]

Interesting. I have never thought about the CO2 in the headspace being re-absorbed before bottling.

 

I am mostly happy with my carbonation but I had an ESB where the last 5 bottles or so were really fizzy. These had been sitting for a while, probably 8-9 months. I opened the last bottle of the batch last week and it was a gusher. I figured it was probably a minor infection in the bottle. I tasted it and it seemed to taste fine.

[Otto Von Blotto]

Neither had I to be honest. It's only relevant if you crash chill it, if it's just left at ferment temps it won't affect it.

 

This is something I found on homebrewtalk written by Kaiser:

 

If at the start of cold conditioning the beer completely stopped fermenting and no more CO2 is produced, the lowering of the beer temperature and the resulting greater capacity for CO2 will consume some CO2 from the head space. This means that air will be sucked in beyond the extent that can be accounted for by the temperature dependent shrinkage of the head space gas. Now you got air into your head space with the possibility of oxidizing the beer. If we assume that the CO2 lays on the beer like a blanket it offers the beer CO2 at atmospheric pressure and the beer will eventually take up enough of that CO2 blanket to reach the CO2 equilibrium that is shown in the tables and normographs that you mentioned.

 

In the end it doesn\u2019t matter what the beer fermented. What matters is the current beer temp.

 

Personally I've never noticed any off flavours due to oxidation from crash chilling brews. This may not be what's causing the over carbing, and it seems strange that if it re absorbs some of the headspace CO2 during CCing, and it's bottled cold, that it takes 2 or 3 months to show over carbonation, rather than showing it as soon as the priming sugar is fermented and the gas from that is absorbed. Either way, I will try priming with less dex and see if that fixes the issue.

[PhilboBaggins]

I've never paid any attention to temperature when calculating my priming sugar. I understand the theory behind it, but I just never bothered.

 

The only times I've had gushers have been before I started mixing my priming solution in with a spoon. Before that I always had half the batch under carbed and the other half gushers.

 

Mine are all awesome at whatever age now. Granted most don't survive past 3 or 4 months, but even ones I've kept have been fine.

 

Got no research or evidence to back it up, but maybe mine attenuate a bit more thoroughly due to the fact that I ferment higher than most of the brewers on this forum? [unsure]

[Beerlust]

I just want to know what a "Calulator" is? [unsure]

 

Is it like an escalator, or for that matter a flumentini? [lol]

 

[wink]

 

Anthony.

[AdamH1525226084]

The bit I can't work out though is that it only ever seems to be noticeable about 3+ months after bottling. Before that, it's fine, but around that time frame it starts pouring great big massive foam heads that just don't dissipate. It doesn't foam up in the bottle when opened, just upon pouring into the glass.

 

It's bloody frustrating! [pinched] [bandit]

 

I've had exactly the same problems Kelsey. So I am using the temp of the cold crashed beer. The latest batch I've increased the temp slightly in the calculator to allow for CO2 escaping during bottling.

 

i.e. my beer was at 2, but I put 8 into the calculator. It was a porter and I used rapadura sugar - that stuff smells amazeballs!

[Hairy]

that stuff smells amazeballs!

It smells like balls? [sick]

[Otto Von Blotto]

[lol]

 

Adam, how many batches have you been using the temp of the beer at bottling time to calculate the priming sugar and has it fixed this problem on all of them?

 

I've never paid attention to the temperature before, I normally just chucked in 150-160g in 24-25L as I'd always done. I'll try 125g on the next batch and see if it fixes it. [annoyed]

[PhilboBaggins]

There's a simple answer that no one has mentioned yet...

 

Drink quicker!!! [lol] [lol] [cool] [kissing] [devil]

[Otto Von Blotto]

That's exactly what the massive foamy heads are preventing happening Phil. [lol]

[PhilboBaggins]

[lol] I meant drink the batch before it gets to the gushing stage.

[AdamH1525226084]

[lol]

 

Adam, how many batches have you been using the temp of the beer at bottling time to calculate the priming sugar and has it fixed this problem on all of them?

 

I've never paid attention to the temperature before, I normally just chucked in 150-160g in 24-25L as I'd always done. I'll try 125g on the next batch and see if it fixes it. [annoyed]

 

Just the two - the Pilsner is not very carbed at all, and the Porter I just bottled last week. The plastic bottles are already firmer than the Pilsner bottles.

 

I opened a dunkelweizen I made (and will be tipping out, cos it's terrible) and it was perfectly carbed - until now. They're gushing

[JohnE9]

Hi all,

 

To solve all your carbing problems you blokes, just get back to the basics.

 

Make sure the the brew has stopped fermenting.

 

Then prime the bottles with a teaspoon of sugar or similar.

 

Easy - peasy. It's not rocket science, fellas![alien]

[Hairy]

Hi all,

 

To solve all your carbing problems you blokes, just get back to the basics.

 

Make sure the the brew has stopped fermenting.

 

Then prime the bottles with a teaspoon of sugar or similar.

 

Easy - peasy. It's not rocket science, fellas![alien]

I am interested in the science behind it but in practice I just prime most of my beers with one CSR sugar cube per 740ml bottle.

[Canadian Eh!L]

I prime My Pale Ales with 120g/21L of dextrose as well as most other styles. I might go as high as 150g/21L on my Ginger beer. 180g is way too high for my tastes.

 

Sometimes carbonation level is confused with head retention. Good head is something completely different than bubbles and fizz.[biggrin]

[AdamH1525226084]

Hi all,

 

To solve all your carbing problems you blokes, just get back to the basics.

 

Make sure the the brew has stopped fermenting.

 

Then prime the bottles with a teaspoon of sugar or similar.

 

Easy - peasy. It's not rocket science, fellas![alien]

 

What temperature is the beer at when you bottle though John?

[JohnE9]

Hey Adam,

 

I don't really know what the temperature was at bottling.

 

Maybe about 21C.

 

Never had a brew fail when I primed the bottles with a teaspoon of sugar after fermentation had fully completed.

[LukeH15]

I would like to thank everyone for their imput and experience,its been very helpful.

 

Cheers Hairy, Otto and Chad (Log Cabin).

 

Enjoy

 

Im gunna stick with 120g and I will provide feedback in 3 weeks

 

 

[Muddy Waters]

120g used to serve me well [cool]