JamieB4 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi All... First brew bottled a few weeks ago and I decided to use the PET bottles and carb drops. My second brew (a brown ale) is in the FV now and will be ready to go into bottles next week. I'll be using glass bottles and was wondering how people bulk prime in the FV without disturbing the trub? Worst case scenario I can prime each bottle, but it would be a heck of a lot easier to bulk prime it I think. Thanks a lot... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffH1 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I can't imagine how it would be possible to evenly distribute, by any type of mixing, to get the priming sugar mixed without disturbing the trub. I just can't see how it could work. It would be easier to just purchase a bottling bucket and rack your beer into that for mixing the priming sugar, then bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyG4 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 there are others who know more than me, but i looked into this - it can't be done. as cliff has said, you'll need to rack to a secondary or to a keg to bulk prime. what i only realised yesterday was that if you go to your local brew shop, you can pick up a basic container to use as a secondary for about 30 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Jamie, I don't know where you are located but you can also pick up fermenters from Bunnings and Big W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 there are others who know more than me, but i looked into this - it can't be done. as cliff has said, you'll need to rack to a secondary or to a keg to bulk prime. Correct, it can't be done in primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieB4 Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 OK...thanks all. Was hoping there was a way to do it without having to rack to a secondary. I like the bottling mechanism from the FV so was hoping for a way to do it. I'll go with priming the individual bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hi. I had the same idea as you. I was having difficulties bottle priming because some bottles would be nicely carbonated and others flat. It came down to the yeast not being equally spread around the fermenter (mostly top yeasting as with Nottingham yeast). I solved this by buying a second coopers kit, using some tubing attached to the spout and gravity pouring it into the 2nd fermenter. I then batch primed stirred the love of it and bottled off the 2nd fermenter's spout. Worked like a champ! All the bottles are nice and firm and carbonated at the same amount. I managed to get a coopers kit on sale because it was expired inside. good deal since i got a 2nd set of everything and 30 PET 750 ml bottles that you cant get in Canada. Next is Kegging![biggrin] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'll go against the flow and say you can most definitely and successfully bulk prime in you primary fermentor if you very gently stir in your sugar solution (it will stir up some sediment but most of the trub will remain intact)...Having said that I just wouldn't dream of doing it myself and wouldn't recommend it to even my worst enemy [cool] You will end up with a fair bit more sediment in your bottles so ageing would be extra important if you wished to drink a clear(ish) beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Maybe I should have said it can't be done successfully in Primary..... It is like having Corned Beef, can you roast it?.. well yes but the outcome won't be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Waters Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I believe it can be done successfully in primary...what is deemed success is relative of course [whistling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You live in Toronto don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverthorn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Just a thought but..... What if you did a crash cold condition and then bulk primed. My thinking is that as long as you held the temp very low maybe 2-3deg the fermentation would not kick back in. Then you could wait for the trub to settle out again b4 bottling. Would that work or is the risk of the fermentation not kicking back in too high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 The problem is that it will take another day or 2 to settle the yeast again... for all that messing about you may as well just rack it off to another container do it. remember that the reason you cold conditioned it was to reduce the amount of yeast sediment to begin with, after a week it's quite compact and settled, it'd be a shame to mix it all up again. Yob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuby Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 there are others who know more than me' date=' but i looked into this - it can't be done. as cliff has said, you'll need to rack to a secondary or to a keg to bulk prime.[/quote'] Correct, it can't be done in primary. Um, sorry to re-open an old thread, but someone on AHB forums points out that even Palmer ("How to Brew" chaper 11) lists bulk priming into the primary vessel as an option, just let it settle 1/2 an hour after gentle stirring. I've tried it once or twice and seems to work, certainly less gear and hassle than a 2nd vessel and as some say, less chance of infection and oxidation. Why is almost everyone on here dead against it (even Muddy only partly concedes it). I mean, Coopers tells us to drink our beer cloudy! My tip is boil the sugar, let it cool, then mix in a cup or two of yer beer to reduce the viscosity & make it mix in easier. Stir gently & well up off the bottom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Not everyone is, I'll let antiphile chime in here as he does bulk prime in the primary. Personally I prefer to transfer it. As one of the former members said, the whole point of cold crashing is to compact the yeast and end up with less of it in the bottle, I don't see much point in risking stirring it all up again and then having to wait for it all to settle out again, when transferring can be done infection and oxidation free if you do it right. Plus you've got the repeated tilting of the FV near the end of bottling risking stirring up the trub, which doesn't happen if you transfer as it is only tilted once. I also don't like yeast in suspension in my beer. It muddies the flavour to me. I don't particularly like haze of any type in my beer but that's a different kettle of fish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschemad911 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You may be right, it might work fine, but I'm not game to try it. Some yeasts compact down like a rock whereas others are a bit fluffy. My bottling vessel is a retired no-chill HDPE jerry can, so the geometry there's less volume below the tap as well which means I can fill more bottles before needing to tilt the vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Tried this bulk priming in the FV on my last brew, a Chubby Cherub. Mixed 160gm white sugar in about 400ml of boiled water then zapped in microwave for 45 secs. Very gently stirred through then bottled about an hour later. Had been cold crashed at 2 deg for a week. Bottles conditioned at ambient temps (15-25 deg). Tried a couple of samplers after 10 days in the bottle, primed to perfection and a beautiful drop. So much easier than mucking around with sugar in individual bottles. Even easier than carb drops, and I had been disappointed with inconsistency of carbonation on earlier brews. The fact that I have bottles of 330, 345, 355, 375, 500, 568, 740 and 750ml probably didn't help either. Happy with the results so far, will report any issues after the rest of the batch has been consumed. Hoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kradmelder Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I' ve dont it several times, mostly when I'm bottling into bottles of various sizes. I just boil the desired volume of sugar in 2 cups of water, cool it down while sanitising bottles, pour it in gently over the surface, then very gently stir, without the spoon reaching to the bottom, so not to disturb the sediment. It worked for me each time and the beer came out clear and with equal levels of carbonation. I'm no expert, just try to make my life easier and still have good quality beer for drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSands Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I'm no expert' date=' just try to make my life easier and still have good quality beer for drinking.[/quote'] I will be trying bulk priming in the primary for the first time with my current batch. I'm always interested in finding ways to save time and simplify things! I've read plenty who, like you, do this regularly with success. The main concern seems to be the possibility of stirring up the trub, but it seems if due care is taken and a reasonable time allowed for the sugar to distribute itself, then it's not really a problem. One thing I found curiously ironic was that many brewers suggest NOT using a secondary, it offers no real benefit and carries the following risks: 1: risk of infection/contamination 2: risk of oxidation And yet they'll happily recommend using a bottling bucket which ironically carries the exact same risks!?? Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kradmelder Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I'm no expert' date=' just try to make my life easier and still have good quality beer for drinking.[/quote'] I will be trying bulk priming in the primary for the first time with my current batch. I'm always interested in finding ways to save time and simplify things! I've read plenty who, like you, do this regularly with success. The main concern seems to be the possibility of stirring up the trub, but it seems if due care is taken and a reasonable time allowed for the sugar to distribute itself, then it's not really a problem. One thing I found curiously ironic was that many brewers suggest NOT using a secondary, it offers no real benefit and carries the following risks: 1: risk of infection/contamination 2: risk of oxidation And yet they'll happily recommend using a bottling bucket which ironically carries the exact same risks!?? Go figure. I just pour in the 400-500 ml cooled sugar mix evenly over the top and make sure i don't put the spoon to the bottom, then stir slow. carbonation always come out even and had no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Admittedly yes it sounds a bit silly. However, the reasoning is different. The idea of racking to a secondary and storing it in there for a period of time is mainly about improved clarity and supposedly flavour enhancement. Given this is highly unlikely to really happen, or, can happen in the primary anyway, the practice is mostly pointless although it does have its place. Racking the beer onto priming sugar is more about mixing it in without disturbing the trub at all and thus not having to wait for it all to settle out again. Yes, there is a risk of infection, but there is a risk of infection anywhere along the brewing process, and if it's done properly, the risk is very small. This could also apply to the other racking. Oxidation is not likely if you're careful enough, but also the yeast in the bottles would likely scavenge it anyway. In a situation of racking for storage, most of the time the beer is being stored cold, not primed, and the yeast go dormant, so the risk is higher. I'd bulk primed heaps of batches using the bottling bucket method until I began kegging, and they were all perfectly fine. No infections, no weird flavours from oxidation. Now with the kegs, I don't prime at all, they're all carbonated by the CO2 cylinder. There is a tiny bit of splashing when the beer is first transferred to the keg, but I do transfer as slowly as possible to minimise it. The kegs are then gassed up once full. Sometimes they go straight into the fridge, other times they're stored in the brewery area until I have space for them. I wonder if the yeast scavenge oxygen even if there is no priming sugar to ferment? Either way, the last two I had that were stored for a period before being tapped were fine too. Cheers Kelsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gag Halfrunt Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Admittedly yes it sounds a bit silly. However' date=' the reasoning is different. The idea of racking to a secondary and storing it in there for a period of time is mainly about improved clarity and supposedly flavour enhancement. Given this is highly unlikely to really happen, or, can happen in the primary anyway, the practice is mostly pointless although it does have its place. Racking the beer onto priming sugar is more about mixing it in without disturbing the trub at all and thus not having to wait for it all to settle out again. Yes, there is a risk of infection, but there is a risk of infection anywhere along the brewing process, and if it's done properly, the risk is very small. This could also apply to the other racking. Oxidation is not likely if you're careful enough, but also the yeast in the bottles would likely scavenge it anyway. In a situation of racking for storage, most of the time the beer is being stored cold, not primed, and the yeast go dormant, so the risk is higher. I'd bulk primed heaps of batches using the bottling bucket method until I began kegging, and they were all perfectly fine. No infections, no weird flavours from oxidation. Now with the kegs, I don't prime at all, they're all carbonated by the CO2 cylinder. There is a tiny bit of splashing when the beer is first transferred to the keg, but I do transfer as slowly as possible to minimise it. The kegs are then gassed up once full. Sometimes they go straight into the fridge, other times they're stored in the brewery area until I have space for them. I wonder if the yeast scavenge oxygen even if there is no priming sugar to ferment? [img']unsure[/img] Either way, the last two I had that were stored for a period before being tapped were fine too. Cheers Kelsey G'day Kelsey, Do you force carbonate at higher than pouring pressure or just pressure up at normal and wait? Can you bulk prime in a keg and wait for it to mature and is there any difference in end result using either method. I thought bottle conditioning was an essential part of beer maturation which you wont get in a keg if carbonated under pressure then immediately consumed. (Just trying to amass data for when I start kegging) Cheers, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Admittedly yes it sounds a bit silly. However' date=' the reasoning is different. The idea of racking to a secondary and storing it in there for a period of time is mainly about improved clarity and supposedly flavour enhancement. Given this is highly unlikely to really happen, or, can happen in the primary anyway, the practice is mostly pointless although it does have its place. Racking the beer onto priming sugar is more about mixing it in without disturbing the trub at all and thus not having to wait for it all to settle out again. Yes, there is a risk of infection, but there is a risk of infection anywhere along the brewing process, and if it's done properly, the risk is very small. This could also apply to the other racking. Oxidation is not likely if you're careful enough, but also the yeast in the bottles would likely scavenge it anyway. In a situation of racking for storage, most of the time the beer is being stored cold, not primed, and the yeast go dormant, so the risk is higher. I'd bulk primed heaps of batches using the bottling bucket method until I began kegging, and they were all perfectly fine. No infections, no weird flavours from oxidation. Now with the kegs, I don't prime at all, they're all carbonated by the CO2 cylinder. There is a tiny bit of splashing when the beer is first transferred to the keg, but I do transfer as slowly as possible to minimise it. The kegs are then gassed up once full. Sometimes they go straight into the fridge, other times they're stored in the brewery area until I have space for them. I wonder if the yeast scavenge oxygen even if there is no priming sugar to ferment? [img']unsure[/img] Either way, the last two I had that were stored for a period before being tapped were fine too. Cheers Kelsey G'day Kelsey, Do you force carbonate at higher than pouring pressure or just pressure up at normal and wait? Can you bulk prime in a keg and wait for it to mature and is there any difference in end result using either method. I thought bottle conditioning was an essential part of beer maturation which you wont get in a keg if carbonated under pressure then immediately consumed. (Just trying to amass data for when I start kegging) Cheers, Don Hey mate, Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. The last couple I gassed up at 45PSI for about 20-22 hours, then removed the gas disconnect and let them sit for a few hours before bleeding the pressure and hooking the gas back up again at normal serving pressure. They were fairly well carbed by this point. Other times I just hook them up at serving pressure and wait a week or so. You can prime kegs yeah. I suspect the flavour would be a little different from force carbonating due to the fermentation taking place. The only comparison I have is the same batch kegged and bottled; I preferred the kegged versions that were force carbed, although the bottles did catch up after a while. Kegs condition faster as well. I usually don't keg a beer and start drinking it straight away though. I work in lots of three, so basically I put three full kegs into the kegerator at the same time, and keep brewing and filling kegs while those are being emptied. When the last of the 3 is empty, the kegerator gets a bit of a clean/wipe, and the next three go in. They usually sit around in the brewery for a month or two before being tapped depending on when in the cycle they're brewed. Usual cycle is a lager first, then a red ale/ESB or whatever, and an APA last so that it can go in before the hops dissipate too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Pirate Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Don't Coopers use secondary in the kegs ? from memory last time i went through the brewery the kegged beer and bottles get treated the same way (Ales at least anyway) I even think the Dr Tims cans are" can conditioned " . Don't know of another larger brewery that does it , Sierra Nevada do a draft version of the PA but its a different grain bill and packaged without yeast , Weihenstephaner may do it with the Hefe but cant remember seeing that in barrels ...... Inner beer nerd escaped again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Von Blotto Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Coopers kegs are conditioned in the same way as the bottles yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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