Just started and up to my 4th brew..

[Stoo]

Hi all.
Have a problem with head retention.
Making brews via the Coopers 23 ltr kit method. Been doing this for a little while now but still no head. Thoroughly clean gear. I use bleach to clean everything then run it over with sodium metabisulphate to rinse the bleach off to get rid of the remaining smell.
I am using the extract and the brew enhancer so not real complicated and also the carbonation drops in the bottles.
When I pour the beer, I get a good head of about an inch high but 30 secs later I have nothing. Glasses haven't seen soap or dishwasher liquids ever, and the beer itself has very fine bubbles throughout the life of the drink.
Just won't hold a head.
Recommendations, clues, all help appreciated...

[Cheap Charlie]

newbie here as well mate, what was your SG and FG? I have found that brews that finish higher (than 1.010) with your ingredients still hold the head while brews that finish below 1.010 the head seems to die out. Also, some recipes ask for a 200g steep of grains - those brews I see head retention all the way down the glass, lacing all the way down, even with dirty glasses.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, Stoo said:

Hi all.
Have a problem with head retention.
Making brews via the Coopers 23 ltr kit method. Been doing this for a little while now but still no head. Thoroughly clean gear. I use bleach to clean everything then run it over with sodium metabisulphate to rinse the bleach off to get rid of the remaining smell.
I am using the extract and the brew enhancer so not real complicated and also the carbonation drops in the bottles.
When I pour the beer, I get a good head of about an inch high but 30 secs later I have nothing. Glasses haven't seen soap or dishwasher liquids ever, and the beer itself has very fine bubbles throughout the life of the drink.
Just won't hold a head.
Recommendations, clues, all help appreciated...

What will help with head formation and/or retention:

• A 200g steep of crushed Carapils grains
• A dry hop with at least 50g of hops
• Using a can of Liquid Wheat Malt Extract

[Oldbloke]

You don't mention how long it's been in the bottle. More time = better head.

 

Malt always helps the head.  There are 2 simple ways to do this. Buy LDME (light dried malt extract) say 500g and add that to the fv OR use BE 3. That has about 50% LDME. There is liquid malt too at your LHBS

[Stoo]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:01 PM, Cheap Charlie said:

newbie here as well mate, what was your SG and FG? I have found that brews that finish higher (than 1.010) with your ingredients still hold the head while brews that finish below 1.010 the head seems to die out. Also, some recipes ask for a 200g steep of grains - those brews I see head retention all the way down the glass, lacing all the way down, even with dirty glasses.

 

[Stoo]

Hi ya.

Sorry all in late reply. Had an issue with Web site.

So, last brew made was a real ale on 26/11/22 best head retention so far. Lasts about 2 mins.

Primed bottles with white sugar, not drops...

SG was 1032

FG was 1015

 

Made a draught before that at

SG 1036

FG at 1006

Head disappears within 30 secs.

Used BE 2 and drops.

 

 

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

53 minutes ago, Stoo said:

best head retention so far. Lasts about 2 mins.

Even with basic home brew you should be able to get a lasting head that stays with you all the way to the bottom & it should leave nice lacing on the glass.

I agree with what @Shamus O'Sean said about the ... 

What will help with head formation and/or retention:

• A 200g steep of crushed Carapils grains
• A dry hop with at least 50g of hops
• Using a can of Liquid Wheat Malt Extract

I would lose the bleach & stick with the proven cleaning methods & use sodium metabisulfate, rinse well & get some StellaSan, see link.

https://www.kegland.com.au/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-500ml-starsan.html

Also have a go priming the bottles with white sugar using a measure separately.

 

[Cheap Charlie]

Not sure why mate, yours looks all good. Here is one I'm sipping on right at this minute. It's a Coopers APA with 1.5kg LDME. Mine has been in the keg 2 weeks. It's holding the head all the way down the glass with lacing on the side. I would try out just say 1kg straight LDME instead of the BE and see how that goes. Cheers.

[Oldbloke]

FYI the use of bleach has absolutely nothing to do with your head retention.  Despite what some may suggest.  There are many ways to sanitise the FV.

 

However additional LDME will help a lot as does time in the bottle. 

Example. Tried a mates Coopers lager with 1kg BE3. At about 5 weeks it was fair.  At 7 weeks much improved. I expect at say 9 weeks it will be great.

Nothing wrong with priming bottles with table sugar. About 6.5 grams per long neck is about right.  Or bulk prime with table sugar. 180 to 200grams per 23litre brew.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Oldbloke

[Pale Man]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:24 PM, Stoo said:

Glasses haven't seen soap or dishwasher liquids ever, and the beer itself has very fine bubbles throughout the life of the drink.
 

Another myth. Nothing wrong with giving a beer glass a good scrub with hot water and dishwashing liquid. Its A1 for getting rid of any stubborn greases or grime inside the glass.. But make sure the glass is then rinsed thoroughly in plain hot water to rid of any detergent. Then towel dry.

I use this method with all my beer glasses, I can confidently say I've never had any problem with head retention.  

[Pale Man]

Just for the exercise I've just washed a glass in detergent with the method I explained. I poured a VB which is notorious for not pouring or holding a head well. You'll have to trust me that I did. The below is not too shabby. Not trying to be a S Ar$e, but showing you can wash glasses in detergent.

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldbloke]

2 hours ago, Pale Man said:

Just for the exercise I've just washed a glass in detergent with the method I explained. I poured a VB which is notorious for not pouring or holding a head well. You'll have to trust me that I did. The below is not too shabby. Not trying to be a S Ar$e, but showing you can wash glasses in detergent.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Dad always washed the dishes.

Beer glass first.

Then good rinse in HOT water.

Dried with a fresh tea towel and in the fridge.

 

Even drank that crap for years, but later HB.

[RDT2]

7 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

Yep. Dad always washed the dishes.

Beer glass first.

Then good rinse in HOT water.

Dried with a fresh tea towel and in the fridge.

 

Even drank that crap for years, but later HB.

My late grandmother taught me to wash beer glasses first and have always done that since! I wash my beer glasses with detergent and then rinse with hot water as @Pale Man described! Works well imo!

[Classic Brewing Co]

22 minutes ago, RDT2 said:

My late grandmother taught me to wash beer glasses first and have always done that since! I wash my beer glasses with detergent and then rinse with hot water as @Pale Man described! Works well imo!

I rinse my beer glasses to death after I have finished with them & they never sit on the sink dirty overnight. I have a dedicated brush that they are scrubbed with & if I feel they need it they get another wash in the sink with diluted Bi Carb of Soda in the morning & rinsed again before they are dried with a dedicated microfibre towel.

If some of you wish to use detergent - go for it!

Detergents can also fade the logos/artworks on your glassware over a period of time, that's why I never use the dishwasher. most of my glasses are branded as you may have seen a few times.

Just for the record, I have always washed any glassware first, then knives, taught to me many years ago cooking in the AACC.

We are all different & there are too many opinions to compare so I will do it my way.

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, I stuffed a couple of logos by putting them in the dish washer.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

1 hour ago, Oldbloke said:

Yeh, I stuffed a couple of logos by putting them in the dish washer.

same but it was the other half that done it. I only do it with non logo glasses now

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

same but it was the other half that done it. I only do it with non logo glasses now

That's why I only hand wash all of my glasses, I have a few in case you haven't noticed.

[ozdevil]

hand washing glasses in fresh hotwater you cant touch (gloves necessary)

Stellasan  for a scrub (specially for dark beers)

and a solid freshwater hot water rinse   good as goold

no lemon scented detergent needed


less detergent a glass has the better .

a glass may survive 3-4 turns of a detergant wash but after that  you have screwed the glass.

detergant has oils in the ingredients 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

\

[Classic Brewing Co]

12 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

detergant has oils in the ingredients 

Agreed OD, but some want to do it so what the hell it is a free world.

[ozdevil]

6 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Agreed OD, but some want to do it so what the hell it is a free world.

exactly  its free world   


the most important thing is we have to enjoy our beer   1st

[iBooz2]

11 hours ago, RDT2 said:

My late grandmother taught me to wash beer glasses first and have always done that since! I wash my beer glasses with detergent and then rinse with hot water as @Pale Man described! Works well imo!

+ 1 for me.  I have always used a mild detergent watered down in a spray bottle and a dedicated foam type bottle brush to clean my glasses.  You have to use some detergent to break down the hop oils that coat your glass over time.  You could use an abrasive microfine sand like product that some do but that stuffs the glass surface in the end.

If detergent is upsetting your beers after you have cleaned your glass, then you simply did not rinse it enough.  As @Hairy always used to say, rinse it 10 times under hot water and then once more to be sure.

 

[iBooz2]

34 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

hand washing glasses in fresh hotwater you cant touch (gloves necessary)

Stellasan  for a scrub (specially for dark beers)

and a solid freshwater hot water rinse   good as goold

no lemon scented detergent needed


less detergent a glass has the better .

a glass may survive 3-4 turns of a detergant wash but after that  you have screwed the glass.

detergant has oils in the ingredients 

I just gotta pick this to pieces - sorry.

The "R" rating of a 1 - 2 mm thick dishwashing glove is 1 fifth of FA so it would make very little difference in your hands being able to tolerate very hot water.

I have had the same beer glasses for about 100 years and always washed them to my routine and they are as good as new.  No microfine scratches or hazy looking glass, just pure clear and clean glass.

Hops have oils too, probably much more than your detergents do as being a detergent, by nature, it breaks down oils that's its job.

Edited February 15, 2023 by iBooz2

[Classic Brewing Co]

6 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

I just gotta pick this to pieces - sorry.

The "R" rating of a 1 - 2 mm thick dishwashing glove is 1 fifth of FA so it would make very little difference in your hands being able to tolerate very hot water.

I have had the same beer glasses for about 100 years and always washed them to my routine and they are as good as new.  No microfine scratches or hazy looking glass, just pure clear and clean glass.

Hops have oils too, probably much more than your detergents do as being a detergent, by nature, it breaks down oils that's its job.

It would seem everyone has their own routine, but mine works for me so that's what I will continue to do.

[ozdevil]

57 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

I just gotta pick this to pieces - sorry.

The "R" rating of a 1 - 2 mm thick dishwashing glove is 1 fifth of FA so it would make very little difference in your hands being able to tolerate very hot water.

I have had the same beer glasses for about 100 years and always washed them to my routine and they are as good as new.  No microfine scratches or hazy looking glass, just pure clear and clean glass.

Hops have oils too, probably much more than your detergents do as being a detergent, by nature, it breaks down oils that's its job.

its just my thoughts mate 

i'm not commanding everyone to follow me..

mate for all i care pour into what ever glass you want however it is cleaned 

the way i clean my glasses  may well be different to yours 

i'm, not judging you or anyone 
 

[Malter White]

These are great to drink from. Rinse them in the sink of the local public dunny. Sit in the car cupholders and don't spill when you hit a bump.