Lager yeast.

[jackgym]

Hi brewers

First time doing a lager (fresh wort kit) with Morgans Premium Lager Yeast.
The packet says sprinkle yeast over wort as long as the temp is over 20C.
As lager is best fermented at 12C, I thought this was initially a bit high ??

What do y'all reckon?

[Otto Von Blotto]

It depends on the method of pitching and amount of yeast. If it's just a dry packet then pitching around 18-20 degrees then dropping it after 12-18 hours or whatever is better for the yeast than pitching it at 12. The initial higher temperature allows it to multiply faster and reduces the lag time.

If it's grown up in a starter or you're using half a yeast cake or something there's a lot more yeast than a dry packet, so it can be pitched at low temperature. 

[RDT2]

13 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

It depends on the method of pitching and amount of yeast. If it's just a dry packet then pitching around 18-20 degrees then dropping it after 12-18 hours or whatever is better for the yeast than pitching it at 12. The initial higher temperature allows it to multiply faster and reduces the lag time.

+1 to what Otto said when I first started making lagers I used the method of 18degrees for 18 to 24 hrs then dropped the temp to 12 for one packet of yeast. From memory I think it was Otto’s Pilsner recipe as well Turned out pretty good!

[jackgym]

Thanks gents. I pitched a dry packet at 23 deg and it took all day to drop to 12 deg. 
I looked at it next day and it was working well. Cheers.

[jackgym]

Forgot to ask, how long before I can drink my lager? Is 4 weeks long enough in the bottle?

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, jackgym said:

Forgot to ask, how long before I can drink my lager? Is 4 weeks long enough in the bottle?

You can drink it as soon as it is carbonated but it's best stored cold to mature. I find after 4 weeks it is usually pretty clear but I still leave it until 6. I don't have the patience for 8 weeks though. In fact, I am known to have a sneaky one here and there and by the time I hit 6 weeks, half the keg is gone  

[Shamus O'Sean]

10 hours ago, jackgym said:

Forgot to ask, how long before I can drink my lager? Is 4 weeks long enough in the bottle?

Try one at 4 weeks.  If you like it, it is long enough.

[Classic Brewing Co]

25 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Try one at 4 weeks.  If you like it, it is long enough.

I agree if it tastes good - drink it.

[jackgym]

19 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

You can drink it as soon as it is carbonated but it's best stored cold to mature. I find after 4 weeks it is usually pretty clear but I still leave it until 6. I don't have the patience for 8 weeks though. In fact, I am known to have a sneaky one here and there and by the time I hit 6 weeks, half the keg is gone  

I don't have anywhere to store it cold so I hope the cupboard will do at room temperature?
On second thoughts, I could store it in my fermenter fridge for 2-3 weeks before it's time to put down another brew and then in the cupboard?
 

[Aussiekraut]

15 minutes ago, jackgym said:

I don't have anywhere to store it cold so I hope the cupboard will do at room temperature?
On second thoughts, I could store it in my fermenter fridge for 2-3 weeks before it's time to put down another brew and then in the cupboard?
 

Use the fridge. 3 weeks is better than none. Just let them carbonate at room temp beforehand.

[jackgym]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

Use the fridge. 3 weeks is better than none. Just let them carbonate at room temp beforehand.

Thanks Aussiekraut.

[Oldbloke]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:13 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

Try one at 12 weeks.  If you like it, it is long enough.

I almost agree, so i felt compelled to correct you. 

The second sentence is spot on.  

[Shamus O'Sean]

10 hours ago, Oldbloke said:

I almost agree, so i felt compelled to correct you. 

The second sentence is spot on.  

I guess you are referring to the recommended 3 months minimum lagering duration.  In that regard, I stand corrected. 

All I was trying to say, is that if you like it after 4 weeks, then drink it.

Will it be better after 12 weeks.  Supposedly.  However, Brew No. 2 for me was a European Lager (when it was still a lager).  I brewed it warm (no temp control back then).  But I did lager it for 3 months.  I also tried a bottle at 1, 2 and 3 months.  I could not detect a difference between each monthly bottle.  It was a nice brew.  My best at the time.  Certainly a step up from the Coopers Original Series Lager.

[Otto Von Blotto]

They seem to reach a peak point and then don't really get any better. Mine are usually nicer after a month or more in the keg than they are at two weeks, but kegs do condition faster than bottles. 

One has yet to live 3 months

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I guess you are referring to the recommended 3 months minimum lagering duration.  In that regard, I stand corrected. 

All I was trying to say, is that if you like it after 4 weeks, then drink it.

Will it be better after 12 weeks.  Supposedly.  However, Brew No. 2 for me was a European Lager (when it was still a lager).  I brewed it warm (no temp control back then).  But I did lager it for 3 months.  I also tried a bottle at 1, 2 and 3 months.  I could not detect a difference between each monthly bottle.  It was a nice brew.  My best at the time.  Certainly a step up from the Coopers Original Series Lager.

I don't brew many Lagers as I simply prefer Ales, I used to brew a lot & I would agree with Shamus, if you are happy with it in a few weeks or so, drink it.

I could never really tell any difference between one that was 3 months old or 3 weeks old but as Otto says beer conditions faster in kegs than bottles.

I used to wait 14 days when I was bottling before I tasted any brew but now that I am kegging, I can start enjoying one after 3 days, I do find at about 2 weeks that they are pretty much at their peak & I can honestly say they don't seem to get any better.

[Oldbloke]

16 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I guess you are referring to the recommended 3 months minimum lagering duration.  In that regard, I stand corrected. 

All I was trying to say, is that if you like it after 4 weeks, then drink it.

Will it be better after 12 weeks.  Supposedly.  However, Brew No. 2 for me was a European Lager (when it was still a lager).  I brewed it warm (no temp control back then).  But I did lager it for 3 months.  I also tried a bottle at 1, 2 and 3 months.  I could not detect a difference between each monthly bottle.  It was a nice brew.  My best at the time.  Certainly a step up from the Coopers Original Series Lager.

I was making a point but having a bit of fun too. If people are happy to drink them at 4 weeks, why not. Would still best a lot of factory beers hands down. I only do kits and bits in glass. But IMO as mentioned earlier they all have a "peak" after which they don't really improve.  At some point they start going backwards. 

Just roughly IMO peaks would be:

Lagers 3-4 months

Most Ales 6-8 months.

Stouts 12-18 months

 

I gather kegs are quite different.

[Otto Von Blotto]

I would have thought most ales apart from the big darker ones would be better at 6-8 weeks than months. After that long the hops would be pretty muted.

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 minutes ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I would have thought most ales apart from the big darker ones would be better at 6-8 weeks than months. After that long the hops would be pretty muted.

I agree, there would be no hop taste, an Ale would be lucky to last 4 weeks in my place, kegged especially, the bottles would be consumed along with other bits & pieces while new kegs are being conditioned. 

I have never had the need to store any beer for anywhere near that long. I think my oldest stout was about 3 months just for an experiment & it didn't get any better.

[Oldbloke]

1 hour ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

I would have thought most ales apart from the big darker ones would be better at 6-8 weeks than months. After that long the hops would be pretty muted.

Mmm, perhaps. I generally only do darker ales, and each one would vary I guess. I was after all talking in general terms. But that has been my experience.

Stout can in particular continue to improve for 2 years or more.

 

[Otto Von Blotto]

42 minutes ago, Oldbloke said:

Mmm, perhaps. I generally only do darker ales, and each one would vary I guess. I was after all talking in general terms. But that has been my experience.

Stout can in particular continue to improve for 2 years or more.

 

Darker ales I'd agree that a longer conditioning period is good for them. I like to leave stouts and things like that for 8-12 months in kegs. Hoppy ales are better after a few weeks though, over months the hops fade away. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Otto Von Blotto