Brew Day What Have Ya Got - 2023

[iBooz2]

13 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I did another Coopers Original Pale Ale clone today.

As discussed previously, today I tried a hopstand addition of Pride of Ringwood to try to bring out a fruitiness that I noticed in the commercial version that was not in my previous clone.

 

@Shamus O'Sean , I bailed up a stagecoach heading up Pezza's way and absconded with another two bags of CPPM so going to get cracking on some more COPA batches.

With my next one I am going to alter the mash to 45 C for 20", main mash 63 C for 60' then jump straight up to mash out 75 C aiming for a thinner beer like the original.  Will up the late PoR hop addition and also do a dry hop to see if that gets closer to the smell of the original in the glass.  That being said I think Coopers would use ISO hops so maybe when they inject each bottle with fresh yeast and sugar mix they may possibly inject some PoR ISO as well.  Just thinking out loud here.

Edited January 15, 2023 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

5 hours ago, beach_life said:

you think that is the hops and not the yeast?

The CCA yeast tend to throw a banana-ish aroma if its fermented at higher temps.  With mine fermented in the early stages at 17 - 18 C then up it every two days to finish off at 22 C it just gives a faint hint of banana when you first open one of my stubbies but it disappears quickly.  I don't perceive that is the fruitiness of the original, I think its coming from the hops.  I suspect Coopers may use ISO PoR somewhere in the late condition stage or even when bottling.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

43 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

@Uhtred Of Beddanburg , he said in the text part that he is using Southern German Lager yeast.

all I did was look at recepie lol I'm shocking

[Classic Brewing Co]

58 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

I bailed up a stagecoach heading up Pezza's way and absconded with another two bags of CPPM

[iBooz2]

4 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Now I will have to change my login name and avatar so no bounty hunters find me.  Hmm... thinking of BarleyBandit.

[Shamus O'Sean]

7 hours ago, beach_life said:

you think that is the hops and not the yeast?

That's a good thought.  I did use Coopers Commercial Yeast from stubbies of COPA.  Therefore, I kind of thought I had that angle covered.  However, fermentation temperatures and times could make the yeast create different flavours.  The CSA I did recently was done at 18°C for 2 days then 19°C until finished then CC.  I have not tasted that one yet.  The previous COPA was at 19°C for 2 days then 20°C until finished plus CC.  The Coopers yeast does have a banana note.  I got that from mine too.  The real COPA that I taste-tested mine against also had a citrus note like you get from a slice of lemon that has been sitting in a drink for a while (not the first sip though).

Hey @beach_life, do you or anybody else know what temperature regime Coopers follows with the real COPA?

[ben 10]

8 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

temperature regime

No I don't.
 

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

Will up the late PoR hop addition and also do a dry hop to see if that gets closer to the smell of the original in the glass.

I don't think it is PoR, to me the flavour is yeasty.
@Beerlust gave me a fruit salad ale once and it was so effing fruity it was amazing, that was just from the yeast I think

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 minutes ago, beach_life said:

No I don't.
 

I don't think it is PoR, to me the flavour is yeasty.
@Beerlust gave me a fruit salad ale once and it was so effing fruity it was amazing, that was just from the yeast I think

The real COPA does remind me of the taste I got using Verdant IPA yeast.

[iBooz2]

41 minutes ago, beach_life said:

No I don't.
 

I don't think it is PoR, to me the flavour is yeasty.
@Beerlust gave me a fruit salad ale once and it was so effing fruity it was amazing, that was just from the yeast I think

Back then Lusty would have been doing K&K so probably based his on the Coopers Fruit Salad Ale recipe.  The recipe says to ferment this one out with CCA yeast at 24 C which adds the banana flavours to the citrus produced by the Cascade and the passion fruit produced by the Amarillo.

The other thing is that the original would be done under pressure so I might make up two identical batches next week and do one at 24 C and the other in the Fermzilla at 15 psi and at say 30 C.

The differences in our perceived sense of smell could also be that I don't roll either the commercial version or my version out of the bottles, always decant and leave the yeast so there may be something in that too.  Yeast is bad for my inherited gout issues.

I reckon with my versions of the COPA I am 95% there just need to get that last missing piece and get the last tick of approval.  I am very happy with the way they turn out now but it would be nice to nail it 100% if possible.

Edited January 15, 2023 by iBooz2

[RDT2]

2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@RDT2 If I may offer a couple of suggestion, Change the style in your software from Ale to Lager.  The amount of crystal maybe a tad high too.  Having made many VB clones myself now I know you need add some dex or white sugar for an aussie style lager and drop the ale malt down accordingly to get your required ABV.  Otherwise it looks ok for a 4.1% ABV clone. 

Does Gash put sugar in his?

Cheers maté didn’t even notice it was ale on the software so apologies. No he didn’t appear to put sugar in it which surprised me also but thought I would just try it as is!  I made an emu export with sugar which was bang on. I have also used the German lager yeast which might not be perfect selection either but it’s what I had so see how it goes! 

Edited January 15, 2023 by RDT2

[ben 10]

16 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

so probably based his on the

It was that one for sure.

[iBooz2]

57 minutes ago, beach_life said:

I don't think it is PoR, to me the flavour is yeasty.

We maybe talking about two different things here.  I reckon my COPA the flavour is about right its the aroma in the glass that I am trying to match.

When I pour a commercial version it smells just like taking a smell of a freshly opened packed of PoR pellet hops.  Next time you are going to open a commercial stubby or can of this and pour it into a glass have a packet of PoR handy and compare the smells.  Probably suggest @Shamus O'Sean does this as well and give me an update on what you think please.  My sniffer probably needs a comparison with other brewers - cheers.

Edited January 15, 2023 by iBooz2

[ben 10]

3 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

When I pour a commercial version it smells just like taking a smell of a freshly opened packed of PoR pellet hops. 

I'll have to check that for sure, not certain the beer up here is real fresh though.

[iBooz2]

17 minutes ago, RDT2 said:

Cheers maté didn’t even notice it was ale on the software so apologies. No he didn’t appear to put sugar in it which surprised me also but thought I would just try it as is!  I made an emu export with sugar which was bang on. I have also used the German lager yeast which might not be perfect selection either but it’s what I had so see how it goes! 

No need to apologize RDT2 its just that it may alter your target numbers a bit so as you know what to aim for.  I have my VB clone set for Australian premium lager (I think, its not on this PC).   I have some SGLY here to do one of your EMU clones for my son but they are well past their use by date now so will have to spin some up and see how viable it is.  hopefully I can recover them and not waste as they are not cheap.

Edited January 15, 2023 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

8 minutes ago, beach_life said:

I'll have to check that for sure, not certain the beer up here is real fresh though.

Yeah the ones I am currently drinking for my CCA starter are Best After 24th Dec 2022 so very fresh.

[iBooz2]

It was a will or won’t I brew day today but finally got started at 1pm.  Brew #92 AG#52 my COPA ver 4.0.  Volume was 22 L in a cube no chill.  I was 2 points up on pre-boil gravity and 3 points up on post boil gravity so it will now come in at 4.7 % ABV rather than 4.5 %.

I also did the hop stand a bit differently this time.  Whirl pooled the wort until it hit 80 C then added the 25 g of PoR and held the wort at 80 C for 20 min.  Once the time was up removed the hops and strained the hop liquid with my 4 cup coffee plunger tipped the resulting liquid back into the kettle and turned the heat off.  It was then cubed and cooled outside with my garden hose / sprinkler as per normal.

Grains:

4100 g CPPM.

200 g Wheat malt.

50 g Crystal light malt (88).

Hops:

15 g PoR for 60 min.

25 g PoR hop stand (aroma) at 80 C for 20 min.

Mash:

5 ml lactic acid added to mash water.

Combined Glucanase & Protein rest – 45 C for 20 min.

Main mash – 63 C for 60 min.

Mash out – 75 C for 10 min.

Boil was for 60 min with 1.25 g of Whirlfloc added at 5 min.

Yeast:

CCA yeast harvested from 6 stubbys of commercial COPA spun up in a starter.

Plan to do several of these until I nail that commercial COPA aroma.  Tomorrow planning a double batch (44 L) of AL’S Outback Pub Lager.

[Uhtred Of Beddanburg]

@iBooz2 you cube a beer then cool it with sprinkler why water the lawn? If that's what you meant great idea

[ben 10]

15 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Whirl pooled the wort until it hit 80 C then added the 25 g of PoR and held the wort at 80 C for 20 min. 

Nice, should be a decent hit.

Alternatively a cube hop at 80c can work

[Gullys Brewing]

A trial of a "west coast" session ale.

Not true to form but makes for an interesting beer to break up my standard house ale.

Hops - CTZ, Centennial and Simcoe 

https://share.brewfather.app/B1UzBxBpYohgrk

Just dry hopped the brew now and the smell is delicious. 3 days till cold crash and then it's time to keg this 42lt sucker (It was ment to hit 39lts but what's 3lts between friends?)

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Gullys Brewing

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 hour ago, Gullys Brewing said:

A trial of a "west coast" session ale.

Not true to form but makes for an interesting beer to break up my standard house ale.

Hops - CTZ, Centennial and Simcoe 

Looks good mate.

[iBooz2]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:59 PM, Uhtred Of Beddanburg said:

@iBooz2 you cube a beer then cool it with sprinkler why water the lawn? If that's what you meant great idea

Yep, I put cubes in a area where I can let rainwater from my tanks dribble over them to cool quicker.  The run-off water just runs down into the Bali garden so not wasted.

[iBooz2]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:06 PM, beach_life said:

Nice, should be a decent hit.

Alternatively a cube hop at 80c can work

Will see how it goes BL.  Thanks - I Just wanted to keep hop matter out of my cubes.

[iBooz2]

Brew day Thursday 19/01/2022 - AL’S Outback Pub Lager. 

This is Brew #96 AG #53.  Volume was 44 L in a cubes no chill.  I wanted to try a light coloured and mid-strength-ish lager using just the CPPM and some Carapils malts.

Predicted Specs:  ABV = 4.5%, IBU – 17,  EBC =7,  BU/GU = 0.43,  OG = 1.043,  FG = 1.006.

I was 2 points down on pre-boil gravity and ended up 2 points over on post boil gravity so it will now come in at 4.5 % ABV rather than the planned 4.2 % ABV.  I think this is a software error in the way it calculates the white sugar addition because when I use white sugar it’s always a couple or few points higher so will have to tweak the numbers for this.

I also did the hop stand the same as the previous COPA.  That is whirl-pooled the wort until it hit 80 C then added the 25 g of PoR and held the wort at 80 C for 20 min.  Once the time was up removed the hops and strained the hop liquid with my 4 cup coffee plunger tipped the resulting liquid back into the kettle and turned the heat off.  It was then allowed to settle and clear for a several minutes, then cubed and cooled outside with my garden hose / sprinkler in the Bali garden as per normal.

Grains:

5500 g CPPM (3.9).

1000 g Carapils (4.5).

Hops:

15 g Super Pride (14.5% AA) for 60 min.

25 g PoR (10.5 % AA) hop stand (aroma) at 80 C for 20 min.

Mash:

Used 45 L of filtered rainwater and about 18 L filtered rainwater for sparge.

12 ml lactic acid added to mash water and 0.25 ml lactic acid to sparge.

No Salts added.

Mash PH at end of first rest = 5.4.

Combined Glucanase & Protein rest – 45 C for 20 min.

Main mash – 63 C for 60 min.

Mash out – 75 C for 10 min.

Boil was for 60 min with 400 g white sugar at 5 min and 2.34 g of Whirlfloc added at 5 min.

Yeast:

Yeast will be whole DL trub from previous 44 L batch of LL that will be kegged up today.  This will be dirty batch #2 in the 58 L Kegmenter.

Edited January 20, 2023 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

After the grain bed, (sitting on its clips), has been sparged and pretty well drained back into the kettle while the wort is coming to the boil.   I then suspend the grain basket above the bench top and use the lid of the 70 L Nano to catch the last of the drips which are then tipped back into the kettle during the boil.

I find it easy enough to lift a double batch of wet grains up without the need of a pulley system although I have one in place I find it just gets in my way.

[ben 10]

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

kettle during the boil.

is that electric?