MitchBastard Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 The Munich helles has come to its final gravity. Pulled up 2 points short at 1.010 but I think it started slightly higher… anyway it’s come out great despite having a few pH issues along the way. Few more days at 18 and will chill back on Monday for a few. Should be on tap by the next weekend. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone boy Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 7 hours ago, Cee said: Skyriewed up my timing to have it for the coldest Melbourne Winternights however, I now have my 2nd Devil's Half Ruby Porter (stuck to the recipe) in my FV The first time I brewed this it just struck me as a perfectly velvetty sipper for a chilly night so I had to try it for Winter. It goes beautifully at room temperature, but also chilled and, despite my liking of it to drink slowly, it also didn't mind when I gave it a bit of a chug. It might get a bit heavy and rich though for a session-type of situation. Apparently Porters begat Stouts and I had never tried one but it's on my Favourites list now. It likes to age a little so I am aiming for maybe 12 weeks in the bottles. But Melbourne's seasons are arriving later these years so I expect to enjoy this with some cold enough evenings anyway. I have no temperature control devices or brewfridge, etc. Timing my beers - hmm my next thing to focus on? Anyway, Porter is in, going to also try a European Lager with Nottingham yeast in the laundry (14 degrees-ish) If it’s 14 degrees in the laundry why not just use a lager yeast. The European lager kit comes with a lager yeast… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Tone boy said: If it’s 14 degrees in the laundry why not just use a lager yeast. The European lager kit comes with a lager yeast… Yes it does. My habit is to use the yeast provided with the tin, plus another. I have mainly added SA04 and SA05 to my brews thus far As you are aware, those 2 yeasts are not suitable to this kind of beer, so I looked for another If I had temperature control I would lager these beers properly with proper yeasts My laundry is at an average of 14 but it is not a controlled environment and as such it is not a Consistent or Stable 14 degrees A true lager yeast is made for stable low temps like an icy cave or a brew fridge My Melbourne laundry (every word matters) is not ideal Nottingham apparently is a "fake" lager yeast I add to the Lager yeast provided with the kit at ambient laundry temps to make the best I can until i can get myself temp control and brewfridge setup Please be aware how much of a complete Noob I consider myself to be, and how this is all a very fun learning curve I am enjoying So any advice you can give is 100% appreciated @Tone boy So, long story short, the answer is I do use the lager yeast provided, but as with all my brews I kinda take into consideration all the factors and experiment to see how stuff works. From what I read in these forums, Nottingham will deliver me a Kinda Lager best as I might get for the time being Footnote is, I also just bottled a 86 Days Pilsner I brewed with the tin yeast and a Nottingham in my laundry for the same reasons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone boy Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Cee said: Yes it does. My habit is to use the yeast provided with the tin, plus another. I have mainly added SA04 and SA05 to my brews thus far As you are aware, those 2 yeasts are not suitable to this kind of beer, so I looked for another If I had temperature control I would lager these beers properly with proper yeasts My laundry is at an average of 14 but it is not a controlled environment and as such it is not a Consistent or Stable 14 degrees A true lager yeast is made for stable low temps like an icy cave or a brew fridge My Melbourne laundry (every word matters) is not ideal Nottingham apparently is a "fake" lager yeast I add to the Lager yeast provided with the kit at ambient laundry temps to make the best I can until i can get myself temp control and brewfridge setup Please be aware how much of a complete Noob I consider myself to be, and how this is all a very fun learning curve I am enjoying So any advice you can give is 100% appreciated @Tone boy So, long story short, the answer is I do use the lager yeast provided, but as with all my brews I kinda take into consideration all the factors and experiment to see how stuff works. From what I read in these forums, Nottingham will deliver me a Kinda Lager best as I might get for the time being Footnote is, I also just bottled a 86 Days Pilsner I brewed with the tin yeast and a Nottingham in my laundry for the same reasons Yep, got you Cee. The Nottingham at low temps does make a good beer for sure. I do that myself and they turn out well and scrumptious! I do think though that you should not totally discount trying a lager yeast. I can guess that you are concerned about the temperature fluctuations causing off flavours?? But if you have an average 14 degrees, that is perfect for something like W34/70. And you can reduce fluctuations by using insulation (but don’t add a heat source obviously). Its just an idea, and there is nothing wrong with what you are doing if it creates a beer you like. Nottingham makes a lovely ale, but w34/70 makes a great lager (to my taste anyway) and is a very forgiving yeast. It is all fun as you say, and learning is a great part of the journey. Many ways to the top of the mountain as a wise person once said Cheers Cee and happy brewing 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreweyMcHops Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 3/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, Stickers said: nice.. never actually realised kveik voss was fast on secondary bottle fermentation also Cheers. You could even give it 4 in the bottle and 1 overnight in the fridge then drink if the bottles are (summer) in a warmish room . The strange thing is how fast it leaves even stouts mature to drink. A months worth of maturation with ordinary yeast is 4 to 5 days in the bottle with healthy voss , for stout which is crazy . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Tone boy said: Yep, got you Cee. The Nottingham at low temps does make a good beer for sure. I do that myself and they turn out well and scrumptious! I do think though that you should not totally discount trying a lager yeast. I can guess that you are concerned about the temperature fluctuations causing off flavours?? But if you have an average 14 degrees, that is perfect for something like W34/70. And you can reduce fluctuations by using insulation (but don’t add a heat source obviously). Its just an idea, and there is nothing wrong with what you are doing if it creates a beer you like. Nottingham makes a lovely ale, but w34/70 makes a great lager (to my taste anyway) and is a very forgiving yeast. It is all fun as you say, and learning is a great part of the journey. Many ways to the top of the mountain as a wise person once said Cheers Cee and happy brewing Cheers, @Tone boy Well I reckon we have enough chilly nights left to try another colder brew out there, mate. So I might just pick up one of those w34/70 yeasts and bung another one through Oh - Muppet Moment - w34/70 yeast... w... Dubya as in George Dubya Bush.... So, is this what all you folk are on about when you're talking about packets of Dubya?? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tone boy said: w34/70 makes a great lager (to my taste anyway) and is a very forgiving yeast. @Cee mate would support @Tone boy Toner here very much - you can run W34/70 at 15 degC just fine... and if wanting a lager-ish thing then would recommend that over Notty which would be nice as well... but if you have some choice in the matter then I reckon our dear friend Dubbya (W34/70) should go nicely. https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/ This is an interesting little experiment write-up re running Dubbya at 21 deg C - ol' mate found bugggggger all difference to going at the more traditional 10 deg: Purpose: To evaluate the differences between 2 beers of the same recipe split into separate fermentors and fermented with the same yeast with half fermented at traditional lager temperatures (50˚F/10˚C) and the other half fermented much warmer (70˚F/21˚C). My Impressions: ... a week after they were kegged... I was able to get it right... At this point, I experienced the differences as incredibly subtle, almost unnoticeable, with the warm ferment beer possessing a character that was slightly cleaner and crisper than the cool ferment beer, which had more of what I thought to be Pils malt character. Then over the following week, I failed 3 subsequent attempts. Was just submitting this post when you submitted yours @Cee mate... hope the above helps. Edited June 18, 2022 by Itinerant Peasant 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Itinerant Peasant said: @Cee mate would support @Tone boy Toner here very much - you can run W34/70 at 15 degC just fine... and if wanting a lager-ish thing then would recommend that over Notty which would be nice as well... but if you have some choice in the matter then I reckon our dear friend Dubbya (W34/70) should go nicely. https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/ This is an interesting little experiment write-up re running Dubbya at 21 deg C - ol' mate found bugggggger all difference to going at the more traditional 10 deg: Purpose: To evaluate the differences between 2 beers of the same recipe split into separate fermentors and fermented with the same yeast with half fermented at traditional lager temperatures (50˚F/10˚C) and the other half fermented much warmer (70˚F/21˚C). My Impressions: ... a week after they were kegged... I was able to get it right... At this point, I experienced the differences as incredibly subtle, almost unnoticeable, with the warm ferment beer possessing a character that was slightly cleaner and crisper than the cool ferment beer, which had more of what I thought to be Pils malt character. Then over the following week, I failed 3 subsequent attempts. Ah cool, I've seen these in the brewshop and online Thanks, @Itinerant Peasant Yeah you guys are twisting my arm I am gunna hold off my Euro Lager a couple of days then and grab some... ...Dubya <----- 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone boy Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 19 hours ago, Cee said: Ah cool, I've seen these in the brewshop and online Thanks, @Itinerant Peasant Yeah you guys are twisting my arm I am gunna hold off my Euro Lager a couple of days then and grab some... ...Dubya <----- Haha yep dubya = w34/70 As that post by @Itinerant Peasantshows the temperature range you have is fine. It is important to try and keep the temperature stable as much as possible. If you give it a go I think you won’t be disappointed. Love to hear back from you after a taste test. I like to give them at least 6 weeks in the bottle, which isn’t always easy! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Bombed the IPA with a hop-sock full of festive Mosaic ; ) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 I hope my Stella Artois clone is not ruined. This was another batch that I brewed to about 22 litres, then added 8 litres of water for a batch size of 30 litres. Then I split this into 2 Fermenter King Juniors. The wort was poured straight onto the yeast cake from the previous lager. In about 26 hours it has fermented from 1.046 to 1.012. Also, the temperature was up to 28.5°C around 8am today. It has since dropped to 24.5°C. This is based on the iSpindel in one of the FKJ's. The temp controller was set at 23°C. Interestingly, by touch, the FKJ with the temperature controller attached, felt cooler than the FKJ with the iSpindel in it. When I moved the temperature probe to the warmer FKJ with the iSpindel in it, the probe temperature started to rise. It seems that the fermentation was less active in one of the FKJ's. I think that the fermentation activity has generated its own heat. I was reliant on ambient temperature (around 7°C) to keep the brew cool. Maybe the ambient temperature was not enough to fight against the rampant fermentation. One of the FKJ's had a slightly bigger yeast cake, but I do not know if it was the more active FKJ. This is a pressure ferment at 15psi, so that might help suppress unwanted esters that the high temperature might have otherwise created. I guess only time will tell. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Man Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said: I hope my Stella Artois clone is not ruined. This was another batch that I brewed to about 22 litres, then added 8 litres of water for a batch size of 30 litres. Then I split this into 2 Fermenter King Juniors. The wort was poured straight onto the yeast cake from the previous lager. In about 26 hours it has fermented from 1.046 to 1.012. Also, the temperature was up to 28.5°C around 8am today. It has since dropped to 24.5°C. This is based on the iSpindel in one of the FKJ's. The temp controller was set at 23°C. Interestingly, by touch, the FKJ with the temperature controller attached, felt cooler than the FKJ with the iSpindel in it. When I moved the temperature probe to the warmer FKJ with the iSpindel in it, the probe temperature started to rise. It seems that the fermentation was less active in one of the FKJ's. I think that the fermentation activity has generated its own heat. I was reliant on ambient temperature (around 7°C) to keep the brew cool. Maybe the ambient temperature was not enough to fight against the rampant fermentation. One of the FKJ's had a slightly bigger yeast cake, but I do not know if it was the more active FKJ. This is a pressure ferment at 15psi, so that might help suppress unwanted esters that the high temperature might have otherwise created. I guess only time will tell. You've got the pressure on your side fella with those high temps. Out of interest what temp was the wort temperature when you pitched?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Pale Man said: You've got the pressure on your side fella with those high temps. Out of interest what temp was the wort temperature when you pitched?? Thanks PM. I am hoping the pressure helps out. It was actually about 18psi. Starting wort temperature was 20°C. See graph below. I should have checked it later in the evening. I did glance at the temperature controller screen around 8pm last night and it showed current temperature under 24°C, so I was not worried at that time. Part of the issue was having the temperature controller probe on FKJ-1 and the iSpindel in FKJ-2. If FKJ-1 was fermenting a little slower and a little cooler, the temperature controller might have kept the heat belt turned on. Therefore, only making the faster and hotter ferment hotter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Man Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Shamus O'Sean said: Thanks PM. I am hoping the pressure helps out. It was actually about 18psi. Starting wort temperature was 20°C. See graph below. I should have checked it later in the evening. I did glance at the temperature controller screen around 8pm last night and it showed current temperature under 24°C, so I was not worried at that time. Part of the issue was having the temperature controller probe on FKJ-1 and the iSpindel in FKJ-2. If FKJ-1 was fermenting a little slower and a little cooler, the temperature controller might have kept the heat belt turned on. Therefore, only making the faster and hotter ferment hotter. Wow pitching temp at 20 and she takes off to 28 thats some serious heat given off by that yeast if that was the case. Good lessons here for me so i'm watching closely. I'm pressure fermenting a Pilsner next so i might pitch at lager temps and slowly work the temperature up over a couple of days while maintaining 10 - 15 psi when it kicks off. Thanks for posting, even though things went a bit pear shaped for you its data in the bank for all of us. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus O'Sean Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, Pale Man said: Wow pitching temp at 20 and she takes off to 28 thats some serious heat given off by that yeast if that was the case. Good lessons here for me so i'm watching closely. I'm pressure fermenting a Pilsner next so i might pitch at lager temps and slowly work the temperature up over a couple of days while maintaining 10 - 15 psi when it kicks off. Thanks for posting, even though things went a bit pear shaped for you its data in the bank for all of us. No worries Pale Man. Glad to be your crash-test-dummy. It's interesting to me too. The first brew with this yeast (Aussie Lager), started at 14°C then rose to 24°C over 12 hours and stayed there. Maybe the extra yeast in the yeast cake made for a much quicker ferment. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 13 hours ago, Tone boy said: Haha yep dubya = w34/70 As that post by @Itinerant Peasantshows the temperature range you have is fine. It is important to try and keep the temperature stable as much as possible. If you give it a go I think you won’t be disappointed. Love to hear back from you after a taste test. I like to give them at least 6 weeks in the bottle, which isn’t always easy! @Tone boy and @Itinerant Peasant I'll definitely post some feedback - thanks for the arm-twist! I got the Dubya today, so I'm ready to go I was wondering about hopping it (all I have is Centennial and Simcoe) or just the recipe as is with the yeast of course Ah "The C Word" - Consistency! I reckon I can beep the temp pretty stable in there. And 6 weeks in the bottle is very do-able 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone boy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Cee said: @Tone boy and @Itinerant Peasant I'll definitely post some feedback - thanks for the arm-twist! I got the Dubya today, so I'm ready to go I was wondering about hopping it (all I have is Centennial and Simcoe) or just the recipe as is with the yeast of course Ah "The C Word" - Consistency! I reckon I can beep the temp pretty stable in there. And 6 weeks in the bottle is very do-able Hey Cee I would just try the kit on its own first, without the hopping. It’s a good way to see what the kit is like before you start to pimp it. I reckon the European lager is a great kit with a good amount of bitterness, and doesn’t really need much pimping anyway… Feel free to add hops as you like, but there are a couple of things to note… Firstly, with lagers, because they are better after “lagering” (stored at cool stable temps for a month or two - or more) any hop aromas are likely to fade, thus reducing the effect of those pricey hops. Secondly I think those hops are not really suited to a European lager style. Maybe hallertau mittelfrūh or hersbrucker or saaz might be better suited to that style…but that is certainly a matter for individual taste. Or create a new world lager with those hops…anyway that’s totally your call and I don’t want to discourage experimentation…. Perhaps those hops would be better value in a pale ale, and consumed younger when those great hop flavors have a bigger presence…. Just my two cents Cee… Cheers 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone boy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 15 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said: I hope my Stella Artois clone is not ruined. This was another batch that I brewed to about 22 litres, then added 8 litres of water for a batch size of 30 litres. Then I split this into 2 Fermenter King Juniors. The wort was poured straight onto the yeast cake from the previous lager. In about 26 hours it has fermented from 1.046 to 1.012. Also, the temperature was up to 28.5°C around 8am today. It has since dropped to 24.5°C. This is based on the iSpindel in one of the FKJ's. The temp controller was set at 23°C. Interestingly, by touch, the FKJ with the temperature controller attached, felt cooler than the FKJ with the iSpindel in it. When I moved the temperature probe to the warmer FKJ with the iSpindel in it, the probe temperature started to rise. It seems that the fermentation was less active in one of the FKJ's. I think that the fermentation activity has generated its own heat. I was reliant on ambient temperature (around 7°C) to keep the brew cool. Maybe the ambient temperature was not enough to fight against the rampant fermentation. One of the FKJ's had a slightly bigger yeast cake, but I do not know if it was the more active FKJ. This is a pressure ferment at 15psi, so that might help suppress unwanted esters that the high temperature might have otherwise created. I guess only time will tell. Hey Shamus, wow 28 degrees! I have never pressure fermented but from what I have read it will certainly help in your case. Will be an interesting side by side comparison between the two sides of the split batch. Who knows, you may have discovered the ultra quick lager method… As you say, time will tell. Watching on with interest. Good luck and cheers 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 6 hours ago, Tone boy said: Hey Cee I would just try the kit on its own first @Cee Cee mate I would go with @Tone boy Toner's good suggestion mate.... and agree with Toner's further points re hop type etc. I think that trying it with the Dubbya and a cooler temp, would be great as a benchmark and go from there maybe? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_G Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Brewed my go to Irish Red and is fermenting away nicely. This is a recipe I have been doing unchanged for the last couple of years. Pitched with a 2 litre starter of Morgan's English Ale yeast (S04) at 11 am and is at 10psi already, 5.30pm. Love a good healthy starter. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchBastard Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Keggin the Munich helles tomororw night after a few days CCing. By golly this is a good beer. Might even bump the aus lager out of rotation for a bit….. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) Pulled out the hop socker w big fat load of festive Mozzie... out of the IPA Ferment after three days... smells great ; ) (this somehow did not post yesterday but was there still when I jumped on today...?) Edited June 23, 2022 by Itinerant Peasant 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 IPA now kegged - backfilled with an Ale - Amber Ale or Sparkling Amber Ale... who knows... anyway a lovely full bodied Aley thing with EKG which will be fermented at around 18 deg C 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzza Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) Gone absolutely berserker!?! Tame old US05... Maybe the kilo of Wyermann Carapils has been contributory? Not yet even 24 hours in... Ravenous Bugblatter Beast Yeast Edited June 24, 2022 by Itinerant Peasant 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cee Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 On 6/20/2022 at 3:43 PM, Itinerant Peasant said: @Cee Cee mate I would go with @Tone boy Toner's good suggestion mate.... and agree with Toner's further points re hop type etc. I think that trying it with the Dubbya and a cooler temp, would be great as a benchmark and go from there maybe? @Itinerant Peasant and @Tone boy Yeah I pitched it with the Dubya, and the tin recipe, no hops. Now we'll see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now