OzDevils USPaleAle

[iBooz2]

@ozdevil , you are a b@stard as I think you have pushed my all-time summertime favourite beer (Pacific Summer Ale) off my top 5 brew list.

Really enjoying this AG recipe even though it was only kegged on 15/11/2021 as it has cleared up nicely and very easy for me to drink.

Thank you as I am going to brew this over and over from now on.

 

[Marty_G]

9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@ozdevil , you are a b@stard as I think you have pushed my all-time summertime favourite beer (Pacific Summer Ale) off my top 5 brew list.

Really enjoying this AG recipe even though it was only kegged on 15/11/2021 as it has cleared up nicely and very easy for me to drink.

Thank you as I am going to brew this over and over from now on.

 

And where will someone find this recipe do you have a link or would you mind posting it.   Had a quick search for it. I imagine it is somewhere in the huge brew day thread.  Cheers

[ozdevil]

10 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@ozdevil , you are a b@stard as I think you have pushed my all-time summertime favourite beer (Pacific Summer Ale) off my top 5 brew list.

Really enjoying this AG recipe even though it was only kegged on 15/11/2021 as it has cleared up nicely and very easy for me to drink.

Thank you as I am going to brew this over and over from now on.

 

I am glad you enjoyed that recipe mate you better do another quick 

 

 

1 hour ago, Marty_G said:

And where will someone find this recipe do you have a link or would you mind posting it.   Had a quick search for it. I imagine it is somewhere in the huge brew day thread.  Cheers

I dont usually post my recipes up

but here you go   if you want to try it   

[ben 10]

5 hours ago, ozdevil said:

I dont usually post my recipes up

Any reason for that?

[ben 10]

Looks good too BTW, I may have to get some citra soon

[jamiek86]

@ozdevil lots of late hops in that one must be a big wack in the face

Edited December 11, 2021 by jamiek86

[ozdevil]

2 hours ago, disgruntled said:

Any reason for that?

nah no real reason     

[iBooz2]

OzDevil’s American Pale Ale.

A mate and I had a bit of a session on this beer on Friday arvo / evening and he too reckons it is a damn nice beer so I thought I had better post up my version.

This is my variation on his original recipe.  I did not have any Munich light at the time plus I wanted to lower the ABV to a session able beer around 4.2 %.  I also wanted to lower the cost of hops so went for less hops 25 g at a higher hop stand temp of 92 C (rather than 80 C) to match the IBU.  Could not see the point of throwing 75 g of both Centennial and Citra hops into an 80 C hop stand when the same can be achieved with one third of each of those hops and using the hotter hop stand water.  This saved $10.25 of hops per batch.

Volume 23 L                Batch # 64                    AG Batch # 23

Estimated specs:        OG = 1.039, FG = 1.007, ABV = 4.2 %, EBC = 8.7, IBU = 34.5, BU:GU = 0.840

Water:  Filtered rainwater (1 micron)

Salts added:

Salt                             0.90 g

Gypsum                      1.80 g

Epson Salts                3.85 g

Calcium Chloride       3.00 g

Grains:

Vic Ale Malt (BB)                            3.50 kg

Gladfield Toffee Malt                     0.25 kg

Maris Otter (SIMP)                         0.25 kg

Acidulated (WEY)                           0.20 kg

Carapils/Carafoam (WEY)               0.20 kg

Mash:

Acid rest at 50 C for 10” then 65 C for 60” then mash out 78 C for 10”

Hop schedule:

Columbus (Tomahawk) US      8 g @ 60”

Centennial                            25 g hop stand 92 C for 20”       note I used a coffee plunger for this.

Citra                                      25 g hop stand 92 C for 20”       note I used a coffee plunger for this.

Centennial                            50 g Dry hop BD + 3 or 4

Citra                                      50 g Dry hop BD + 3 or 4

Yeast:

US-05                                                                     250 ml reclaimed from previous batch.

Ferment schedule:

Pitch @ 18 C and held there for 3 days then stepped up to 22 C for 4 days then cold crash routine (down 4 C each day until 2 C reached then held at 2 C until kegged).

Edited December 19, 2021 by iBooz2

[Popo the Reprobate]

3 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I also wanted to lower the cost of hops so went for less hops 25 g at a higher hop stand temp of 92 C (rather than 80 C) to match the IBU.  Could not see the point of throwing 75 g of both Centennial and Citra hops into an 80 C hop stand when the same can be achieved with one third of each of those hops and using the hotter hop stand water.  This saved $10.25 of hops per batch.              

You'd get a different version of the beer with those changes but if it suits you, it's a good change. 

Sounds like a nice beer.

[Shamus O'Sean]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:17 AM, iBooz2 said:

I also wanted to lower the cost of hops so went for less hops 25 g at a higher hop stand temp of 92 C (rather than 80 C) to match the IBU.  Could not see the point of throwing 75 g of both Centennial and Citra hops into an 80 C hop stand when the same can be achieved with one third of each of those hops and using the hotter hop stand water.  This saved $10.25 of hops per batch

The 80 C is probably more about flavour than IBUs. I did a brew on Saturday.  It was a LHBS recipe.  I exchanged a few emails with them because when I put the recipe into Brewfather, the IBUs I got were too high.  Turns out I had the hop stand at 90 C. Changing it to 77 C dropped it right back.  The LHBS owner was adamant about the 77 C or I would not get the expected flavours into the beer. 92 C can evaporate off aromas and flavours.  Especially if you no chill into a cube at that temperature. 

[Aussiekraut]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:17 AM, iBooz2 said:

Could not see the point of throwing 75 g of both Centennial and Citra hops into an 80 C hop stand when the same can be achieved with one third of each of those hops and using the hotter hop stand water. 

It's not about the IBU. A hop stand @80C is meant for flavour extraction, not adding bitterness per se. If you want to get lots of flavour, especially if you want a "juicy" beer, you need to drop the bitterness and let the hops shine. So a hop stand at 90C will give you the same IBU with less hops but you will also extract less flavour from the hops. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Aussiekraut

[ben 10]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

92 C can evaporate off aromas and flavours.  Especially if you no chill into a cube at that temperature. 

Where does it go then?

 

 

[ozdevil]

2 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

The 80 C is probably more about flavour than IBUs. I did a brew on Saturday.  It was a LHBS recipe.  I exchanged a few emails with them because when I put the recipe into Brewfather, the IBUs I got were too high.  Turns out I had the hop stand at 90 C. Changing it to 77 C dropped it right back.  The LHBS owner was adamant about the 77 C or I would not get the expected flavours into the beer. 92 C can evaporate off aromas and flavours.  Especially if you no chill into a cube at that temperature. 

i must agree with you shamus    when hopstanding its not usually about the ibu's  As Aussiekruat said  

i think when you adding hops at 0 mins or less   specially @80 degrees  your not looking at bittering

even when your dry hopping  its not about bittering it s all flavour and aroma  in my opinion


anything below the 0 minute boil its not really meant for bittering and adding those ibu's

thats usually done early in the boil


 

[iBooz2]

A big thank you for all your input, feedback and ideas guys.   @Popo ,   @Shamus O'Sean , @Aussiekraut , @disgruntled and @ozdevil

Shamus yes my software does the same re 80 C and 90 C  and IBU calculations etc.

The idea behind this was not a static 92 C temp all the way through for 20”,  it was drop the hops into a coffee plunger with 92 C wort in it and leave for 20” before plunging / squishing those hop pellets and extracting the last of the juices and tipping this juice back into the main wort.  As I had no way of keeping the coffee plunger at a set temp I just had to go with the flow of physics.

I first got interested in this idea when @Journeyman was posting about mucking around with hop teas, infusions and stuff.  So back then I did a little experiment with a K-Mart coffee plunger.  First boiled a kettle and filled the coffee plunger with boiling water to pre-heat it.  Then boiled the kettle again, discarded the coffee plunger contents and re-filled with fresh boiling water with the inky sensor dangling inside it and lid pretty much on.

When I did this trial I did not start taking notes until the temp on the inky hit 90 C on the way down and from memory it dropped pretty quickly down into the 70’s C after / during the 20”.  I have a graph of my data somewhere on one of my PC’s.  You would think me being a smart IT guy that I would have all this info in the one place on one of my servers but no, disorganized nowadays, anyway I will find it and post later.

So with this batch, what I did was, had a pre-heated coffee plunger nearby and a container of weighed out hops and when the main 70 L Nano wort got down to near 95 C, tipped the hot water out of the plunger and whilst the pump was running to sanitise the hoses etc. carefully filled it with hot wort.

Measured the wort temp in the coffee plunger and when it hit 92 C dropped in the hops and put plunger part in on top just a bit to hold them "just" submerged then put its lid on.  Set timer for 20”.  When 20” was up pressed the juices out of the hops in the coffee plunger and tipped that back into the main Nano wort which was cooling all this while.

I am guessing, doing it this way, in the first 5” it would have extracted some bitterness (as my software says I did, to match recipe profile) then after 10” or so it would be only aroma and flavour.  Just going on what I have read as this seems to be a hedge of all bets as it was probably in the high 70’s C for the bulk of the time.

Anyway I am very happy with the outcome and will not be changing any bit of this procedure when next I make this recipe.  Just waiting on a bag of Carapils to arrive and jobs on.

Shamus, I always wait for the main wort to cool to mid to high 80’s C before cubing nowadays as the wort gets very clear once the conductive thermal disturbances stop and wort settles more quickly in high 80 C.  The cubes are sanitised within an inch of their lives anyway so all good.   Once in the cube it goes on its side to pasteurize any possible missed bits for a while then its outside to cool under the garden hose.

Edited December 20, 2021 by iBooz2

[Shamus O'Sean]

4 hours ago, disgruntled said:

Where does it go then?

 

 

Good question.  I started to think the same thing after I submitted the comment.  I just regurgitated something I had read or heard.  But I may have misunderstood.

I am confident that the hotter temperatures will vapourise the oils that impart hop flavour and aroma.  Hotter temperatures will also extract some bitterness from hops.  The magic temperature where this stops is just under 80°C.  I think that is where I got my perception that cubing at hotter temperatures would reduce the flavour/aroma effect of hops.  If the cube is sealed, and virtually air free, where can it go.  Whereas, if you get hop matter into your cube and the temperature is well over 80°C, you will get some extra bitterness from it.

What @iBooz2 says in his post above makes more sense.  He has done some experiments to give him the confidence that a hot steep tea in a coffee plunger, starting at 92°C and left sit for 20", will drop to a good flavour/aroma extraction temperature pretty quickly.

Brewfather says about allowing for IBU extraction in a cube, but does not really explain how.  It asks for the average temperature of the hop stand and the duration.  It probably uses a formula, that based on the wort volume, the average temperature, and the hop stand duration, figures out the hop stand start and finish temperature and calculates bitterness extracted.  As Al is doing his hop stand in a coffee plunger, the rate of temperature drop will be quicker.  I accept that his process works for him, and at the end of the day, that is all that matters. 

[ben 10]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I accept that his process works for him, and at the end of the day, that is all that matters. 

Correct.

Like my beers - bittering addition and flameout.
When I feel like changing it up I do either another whirlpool addition @ 80° or a cube hop.
 

[Journeyman]

9 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I think that is where I got my perception that cubing at hotter temperatures would reduce the flavour/aroma effect of hops.  If the cube is sealed, and virtually air free, where can it go.  Whereas, if you get hop matter into your cube and the temperature is well over 80°C, you will get some extra bitterness from it.

Where can it go? It doesn't have to go anywhere, because maybe the heat simply changes the chemicals involved? There's got to be a reason why the same product (hops) can give such diferent results depending on temp and/or length of time AT a temp. Conversion of the chemicals would seem logical.

[Popo the Reprobate]

14 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Anyway I am very happy with the outcome and will not be changing any bit of this procedure when next I make this recipe.  Just waiting on a bag of Carapils to arrive and jobs on.

I'm pretty much a bittering addition and flameout/cube at 80°C. For me, omitting 100g of hops would have a pretty big effect on the flavour and aroma of the beer. 

But, you sound stoked with the results and that's all that really matters

Did you ever make it as per the original recipe. It would be cool to do a side by side.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Popo

[iBooz2]

On 12/21/2021 at 12:40 PM, Popo said:

I'm pretty much a bittering addition and flameout/cube at 80°C. For me, omitting 100g of hops would have a pretty big effect on the flavour and aroma of the beer. 

But, you sound stoked with the results and that's all that really matters

Did you ever make it as per the original recipe. It would be cool to do a side by side.

 

No @Popo, I did not make the original as I like my beers to be about 4 - 4.2 ish ABV generally and this one ended up just under the 4 mark so with almost 1.5% ABV trimmed off @ozdevil's original I also needed to cut back on the hops.  Did not want it to end up a hop soup. 

Yes I am very happy with the flukey outcome of this beer.  Going to brew it exactly the same again but will try to hit the 4.2 % ABV as per my version of the recipe next brew day (possibly tomorrow).  Going to grab another coffee plunger so I can have more wort volume to hop pellets next batch but that will be the only change.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

@Shamus O'Sean , @Popo, @Journeyman, and others whom might use this process.  I found my test of the fall in temp of the Big W coffee plunger mentioned in a post above.

This test did not have hops in it just boiling water so the temp would drop a tad quicker initially from the 92 C when the cold or frozen hops go in.  After that I suspect the temp will fall off similar to the line in the chart.  The test was done when ambient room temp was about 23 C.  

Probably pay to leave the hops get to room temp in a sealed air tight container before dumping them in at 92 C.

As you can see they would spend most of their 20" time around the mean of 80 C anyway.

[Tone boy]

Thanks for posting that up @iBooz2 

What was the volume of the coffee plunger Boozer?

[Tricky Micky]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:04 PM, iBooz2 said:

@Shamus O'Sean , @Popo, @Journeyman, and others whom might use this process.  I found my test of the fall in temp of the Big W coffee plunger mentioned in a post above.

This test did not have hops in it just boiling water so the temp would drop a tad quicker initially from the 92 C when the cold or frozen hops go in.  After that I suspect the temp will fall off similar to the line in the chart.  The test was done when ambient room temp was about 23 C.  

Probably pay to leave the hops get to room temp in a sealed air tight container before dumping them in at 92 C.

As you can see they would spend most of their 20" time around the mean of 80 C anyway.

Thanks heaps for this Boozer mate, beautiful work.

[iBooz2]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:47 AM, Tone boy said:

Thanks for posting that up @iBooz2 

What was the volume of the coffee plunger Boozer?

@Tone boy , it holds 1 L full to just below the pouring beak TB.  I tried to buy another one the same but no stock.   I reckon using two of them would be better for bigger late hop additions, even in this recipe for example,  25 g hops in each plunger rather than 50 g all in one unit as I think this would extract more aroma goodies etc.  as better / more efficient contact with the hot wort.

[iBooz2]

The existing coffee plunger is a Big-W house & home 4 cup (1 L) unit.  I want to get the 6 cup (1.5 L) version as my second unit but there is no stock locally.  See here.