Nubie question about first ever brew.

[Shamus O'Sean]

49 minutes ago, Space said:

I'm still waiting for it to clear before bottling.  I chilled it for two days then added some finings and it's been sat there another 4 days.   I pour a little out and it's still really cloudy.

When do I call it a day on the clearing and just bottle the cloudy/hazy  stuff?

I agree with @Pickles Jones.  Six days cold crashing plus finings: It's as good as it is going to get.  Bottle next time you get a chance.

[Space]

OK.  Thanks for that.  I'll bottle it and be damned.  But one final question...

I have 500ml PET bottles.  The instructions say 2 carbonisation drops per bottle but I have read elsewhere to only use 1.

Unless someone tells me otherwise I'll go for 2 per bottle I guess.  Is that right?

[Frosty Chop]

1 hour ago, Space said:

OK.  Thanks for that.  I'll bottle it and be damned.  But one final question...

I have 500ml PET bottles.  The instructions say 2 carbonisation drops per bottle but I have read elsewhere to only use 1.

Unless someone tells me otherwise I'll go for 2 per bottle I guess.  Is that right?

I've bottled quite a few 500ml German glass bottles over the years and found one carb drop has worked well. I wouldn't advise using two.

Just my2 cents.

[iBooz2]

6 hours ago, Space said:

I have 500ml PET bottles. 

@Frosty Chop , @Space has stated he is using PET so 2 carb drops would be the minimum for these stretchy balloon bottles.  In fact if the beer has been cold crashed for several days I would go even higher sugar such as the Muzzy method V 1.0 or 2.0.

It is different with glass bottles because they don't stretch they just go bang!

[Otto Von Blotto]

Cold crashing won't make any difference to how much sugar is needed. Two carb drops per bottle is plenty. 

That's an issue with carb drops. They're designed for 750 or 375 (or thereabouts) size bottles. 

[Space]

Cheers guys.  I've gone for two.

[Journeyman]

On 12/4/2021 at 1:10 AM, Space said:

My first bucket has now been put in a fridge to cool down and clear before bottling.  I did taste a little and while you can certainly catch a low tang of off yeast tastes due to the high initial heat I reckon after it's chilled to a drinkable lager temperature it won't be any worse than some lagers I've paid money for (Carling etc).  If that's the output when it's not done right then I can't wait to do the next one properly.

My 1st brew I managed to get the temp up to 36° overnight. On advice from here I left it in the FV for an extra few days after it reached FG and it cleaned up pretty well - definitely drinkable even if I wouldn't ahve invited guys around to try it. 

 

9 hours ago, Pickles Jones said:

I think you may be expecting a little to much from your finings.  When you pour a little out of the FV to test, you will be drawing from the bottom of the FV, which will be the last to, if ever clear out to meet with your expectations.

@Space - To combat this I brew my FV's with a lump of 4x2 under the front of the FV. This means teh trub all gathers at the back to the FV so when it comes time to decant (bottles or keg) the tap is well clear of the gunk. And with Nott yeast it is nicely compacted so even when I tilt the FV forward to get the last of the beer, the trub doesn't move forward fast enough to come through the tap.

One other thing - make sure your bottles get stored for at elast 2 weeks, (longer is beeter for quality) at the yeast ferment temp. It will take them a day or more to come back up from the CC temp, but the yeast needs to be able to work on the sugar you put in for carbonation - so 18° or so, constant temp. Cold night will slow down the process if you're not using a heat source.

My 1st heat source was an electric blanket in the cupboard with the brew. The 36° came about because it was a double blanket & I folded it in hhalf and set the outside one to '1' - unfortunately I plugged in the INSIDE half and it was on '3'!

Edited December 8, 2021 by Journeyman

[Spursman]

52 minutes ago, Space said:

Cheers guys.  I've gone for two.

Should be good. Don't forget to bottle condition at above 18°c for at least two weeks to get good carbonation. A good tip with PET bottles is to give one a squeeze at the fill level. If it's hard it's carbonated properly, if it's soft give it longer.

[Space]

Thanks for all the advice on this thread - it's really been an education.

I've bottled the sh*tty lager and I've got the next brew in the FV.  It's a Yorkshire Bitter and I feel good about this one, being a Yorkshire lad.  The smell reminded me of proper beer from the moment the hot water hit the malt so I'm feeling good about it in a real nostalgic way.  I'm connecting with this one - unlike the crappy lager thing I started with.

This one has 1kg of brew enhancer and 1/2kg of brewing sugar.  Why?   Because that's what I had to hand.  Temperature set to 18c-20c on a new Inkbird.

 

[Tone boy]

57 minutes ago, Space said:

Thanks for all the advice on this thread - it's really been an education.

I've bottled the sh*tty lager and I've got the next brew in the FV.  It's a Yorkshire Bitter and I feel good about this one, being a Yorkshire lad.  The smell reminded me of proper beer from the moment the hot water hit the malt so I'm feeling good about it in a real nostalgic way.  I'm connecting with this one - unlike the crappy lager thing I started with.

This one has 1kg of brew enhancer and 1/2kg of brewing sugar.  Why?   Because that's what I had to hand.  Temperature set to 18c-20c on a new Inkbird.

 

Lallemand make a dry yeast called “London”. It’s a good yeast for English bitters if you like a bit of malt flavour. There’s a thread on this forum called the English bitter thread you might be interested in…
 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Tone boy

[Spursman]

20 hours ago, Space said:

Thanks for all the advice on this thread - it's really been an education.

I've bottled the sh*tty lager and I've got the next brew in the FV.  It's a Yorkshire Bitter and I feel good about this one, being a Yorkshire lad.  The smell reminded me of proper beer from the moment the hot water hit the malt so I'm feeling good about it in a real nostalgic way.  I'm connecting with this one - unlike the crappy lager thing I started with.

This one has 1kg of brew enhancer and 1/2kg of brewing sugar.  Why?   Because that's what I had to hand.  Temperature set to 18c-20c on a new Inkbird.

 

Well done. With your temperature controlled fv you are on your way to Premier League brewing and just like Leeds FC there is plenty of room for improvement! There may be times when things don't go exactly to plan (see the fail thread) but, as they say, nothing ventured nothing gained. I'm a lifelong Spurs supporter so I'm used to being disappointed!

[Cee]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:10 AM, Journeyman said:

My 1st brew I managed to get the temp up to 36° overnight. On advice from here I left it in the FV for an extra few days after it reached FG and it cleaned up pretty well - definitely drinkable even if I wouldn't ahve invited guys around to try it. 

 

@Space - To combat this I brew my FV's with a lump of 4x2 under the front of the FV. This means teh trub all gathers at the back to the FV so when it comes time to decant (bottles or keg) the tap is well clear of the gunk. And with Nott yeast it is nicely compacted so even when I tilt the FV forward to get the last of the beer, the trub doesn't move forward fast enough to come through the tap.

 

This is great!

I use a pair of socks or wads of tissues under the from feet (1 sock for each "foot" I can fold it or unfold it for greater or lesser angles) however reading the 4x2 method it seems to me that your method is a ripper because of the decanting part. 

I am converted!

[iBooz2]

On 12/9/2021 at 7:01 AM, Otto Von Blotto said:

Cold crashing won't make any difference to how much sugar is needed.

Certainly does.

Just saying - with a cold crashed beer batch = less suspended yeast = longer carbonation time (even longer with less priming sugar) = frustration if they are consumed too early re being flat hence my advise for higher sugar dose in PET's if it was cold crashed in the first instance.

We want this brewer to win with his beer and enjoy them not be disappointed and give up.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by iBooz2

[iBooz2]

22 hours ago, Cee said:

I use a pair of socks or wads of tissues under the from feet (1 sock for each "foot" I can fold it or unfold it for greater or lesser angles) however reading the 4x2 method it seems to me that your method is a ripper because of the decanting part.

@Cee , if you are real keen make up something like I did to tilt the FV hands free when bottling or kegging.  See thread here.

[Cee]

2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@Cee , if you are real keen make up something like I did to tilt the FV hands free when bottling or kegging.  See thread here.

Thank you, @iBooz2

That has definitely got me thinking

I am no handyman but necessity is the catalyst for all evolution... The access this gives to brewing for people with achy breaky parts is quite real, methinks

This is terrifically practical - you even cut out a section to avoid bending the bottlewand and the tap damage that causes

Besides - it is also just totally cool

[Cee]

Apologies to @SpaceI kind of went off topic on your thread

I have caught myself 

[Space]

4 hours ago, Cee said:

Apologies to @SpaceI kind of went off topic on your thread

I have caught myself 

No problems mate.  I have a tendancy for my thought processes to shoot off into space.  Hence the name.

[Space]

7 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Certainly does.

Just saying - with a cold crashed beer batch = less suspended yeast = longer carbonation time (even longer with less priming sugar) = frustration if they are consumed too early re being flat hence my advise for higher sugar dose in PET's if it was cold crashed in the first instance.

We want this brewer to win with his beer and enjoy them not be disappointed and give up.

 

No chance of giving up.  Not until my liver says, at least.  

You may be right about this.   I opened one today just for the hell of it and after 5 days (?) in the bottle with two drops it is flat as a fart.  It is, however, clear as day and there's virtually no sediment I can see.

I realise that I probably did most everything wrong with that first brew - wrong ingredients, wrong temperature, wrong finings, wrong process, possibly wrong carbonation, but at the end of the day I practised pretty much every thing I need to make drinkable beer.

My second batch (Yorkshire Bitter) should be finished primary fermentation in a couple of days and it tastes so good I could down a glass of it as it is.  I'm putting it straight into bottles so it has a chance of getting drinkable by New Year.  So happy days.  Lots of lessons learned.

[Spursman]

9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Just saying - with a cold crashed beer batch = less suspended yeast = longer carbonation time (even longer with less priming sugar)

Here's the thing. The online bulk priming calculators often have a notation that cold crashed beers actually retain MORE natural carb in the fv and brewers should adjust the amount of priming material accordingly. I've just bottled my first bulk primed batch after a 5 day cc @ 150 gms table sugar for 23 litres. It's feeling like 90% carbed after just 3 days and I'm getting nervous!

[Otto Von Blotto]

13 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Certainly does.

Just saying - with a cold crashed beer batch = less suspended yeast = longer carbonation time (even longer with less priming sugar) = frustration if they are consumed too early re being flat hence my advise for higher sugar dose in PET's if it was cold crashed in the first instance.

We want this brewer to win with his beer and enjoy them not be disappointed and give up.

 

Not in my experience. It might have taken slightly longer (talking a day or two not weeks) but the carbonation level was no different between cold crashed and non cold crashed, using the same priming rate.  Some were lagers that were crashed for several weeks before being bottled. Cold crashing alone simply doesn't drop enough yeast out to have any real effect on it. There's still plenty of yeast in suspension even if the beer looks relatively clear. 

I think it would be better not using more priming sugar, it's better to wait a little longer than ultimately end up with overcarbed beer. They're usually flat because they aren't stored warm enough, or perhaps the bottle tops aren't properly sealed for whatever reason. 

[Otto Von Blotto]

4 hours ago, Spursman said:

Here's the thing. The online bulk priming calculators often have a notation that cold crashed beers actually retain MORE natural carb in the fv and brewers should adjust the amount of priming material accordingly. I've just bottled my first bulk primed batch after a 5 day cc @ 150 gms table sugar for 23 litres. It's feeling like 90% carbed after just 3 days and I'm getting nervous!

They do but it's a myth. It might be 0.1 volumes more than without a cold crash but that's about the extent of it, and that's only if the beer reabsorbs the entire headspace of CO2, which I find unlikely. The rest which has already exited the fermenter isn't magically gonna be dragged back in. 

[Spursman]

3 hours ago, Otto Von Blotto said:

They do but it's a myth. It might be 0.1 volumes more than without a cold crash but that's about the extent of it, and that's only if the beer reabsorbs the entire headspace of CO2, which I find unlikely. The rest which has already exited the fermenter isn't magically gonna be dragged back in. 

Thanks OVB. Can't fault your logic (as usual).

So do you think I'm going to be okay with this brew carbing up quickly?

[Otto Von Blotto]

21 hours ago, Spursman said:

Thanks OVB. Can't fault your logic (as usual).

So do you think I'm going to be okay with this brew carbing up quickly?

Most likely yeah. I have had the odd batch do that as well, a few surplus lagers were fully carbonated in four days once, but they didn't end up overdone. 

[jamiek86]

I have to admit I've had a few beers in bottle that had been cold crashed for between 5 days to a week that didn't carbonate as well as ones that had not been CC. Same sugar scoop used same quality bottles etc.  I've always been told it shouldn't make a difference but I found it did even just the smallest amount was noticed.

[Tricky Micky]

12 hours ago, jamiek86 said:

I have to admit I've had a few beers in bottle that had been cold crashed for between 5 days to a week that didn't carbonate as well as ones that had not been CC. Same sugar scoop used same quality bottles etc.  I've always been told it shouldn't make a difference but I found it did even just the smallest amount was noticed.

I've had a couple of PETs which have carbonated well during conditioning, these bottles felt the same as the rest - solid as with no give. 9g/liter will do that.  Put 'em in a fridge at 2.5 degrees and whamo these bottle's lost all their carbonation or near about.