Any toucan or 12 litre tips or advice?

[Franham]

Hey any advice you guys add when it comes to toucan or 12 litre recipes? Like i'm assuming we should be adding more adjuncts to match up it with the heavier extract concentration vs water etc.

I've read about a real ale toucan/12 litre recipe on the coopers community, which is what i want to do. I think the recipe was 500 ldm and some sort of hop, cascade i think. I think the amount of ldm was to counter balance the bitterness of the toucan.

Also thinking of doing a dark ale, same principle 500 ldm and maybe add some kent goldings and fuggles (i'm gonna add that to the real ale too). normally add 30 g of any given dry hops, and that seems to give me the level i hops i prefer. You wouldn't add more hops to a toucan just because it's a toucan right? it's less water? but again might be wrong, hence my inquiry

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Franham

[Shamus O'Sean]

Hey @Franham, So if I get you right you are talking about putting one 1.7kg can into a fermenter and filling it to 12 litres.  So something close to putting two 1.7kg cans into a fermenter and filling it to 23 litres - The traditional toucan, except your version is roughly half the volume.

How you go about it all depends on what you are aiming for.  Most brewers doing this type of thing use the lower bitterness cans, like Mexican Cerveza, European Lager and Australian Pale Ale.  This is because 1.7kg into 12 litres makes a brew about twice as bitter as following the "standard" recipe.  Any of the 1.7kg cans into 12 litres will give you a beer with an ABV around 4.7% once bottle primed.  As far as bitterness:

• Mexican Cerveza = 46 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.05
• European Lager = 48 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.1
• APA = 48 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.1
• Real Ale = 79 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.82
• Dark Ale = 83 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.91

The BU:GU Ratio is the ratio of Bitterness Units to Grain Units and equals IBU's/OG (without the 1. and multiplied by 1,000).  It is an indication of the balance of the beer.  So a beer with 40 IBU's and an OG of 1.040 would be in balance.  Of the above brews, the latter two are swayed a lot towards bitterness.  If you like your beers that way, it might suit you perfectly.  The suggestion is to give it a try and see if you like it.

500g of LDM will increase the OG and so bring the brew closer to balanced, but also increase your ABV to around 6.2%

You could add any hops as a steep or dry.  You will not get much more bitterness from a hot steep and none from a dry hop.

[Franham]

15 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

Hey @Franham, So if I get you right you are talking about putting one 1.7kg can into a fermenter and filling it to 12 litres.  So something close to putting two 1.7kg cans into a fermenter and filling it to 23 litres - The traditional toucan, except your version is roughly half the volume.

How you go about it all depends on what you are aiming for.  Most brewers doing this type of thing use the lower bitterness cans, like Mexican Cerveza, European Lager and Australian Pale Ale.  This is because 1.7kg into 12 litres makes a brew about twice as bitter as following the "standard" recipe.  Any of the 1.7kg cans into 12 litres will give you a beer with an ABV around 4.7% once bottle primed.  As far as bitterness:

• Mexican Cerveza = 46 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.05
• European Lager = 48 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.1
• APA = 48 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.1
• Real Ale = 79 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.82
• Dark Ale = 83 IBU; BU:GU Ratio 1.91

The BU:GU Ratio is the ratio of Bitterness Units to Grain Units and equals IBU's/OG (without the 1. and multiplied by 1,000).  It is an indication of the balance of the beer.  So a beer with 40 IBU's and an OG of 1.040 would be in balance.  Of the above brews, the latter two are swayed a lot towards bitterness.  If you like your beers that way, it might suit you perfectly.  The suggestion is to give it a try and see if you like it.

500g of LDM will increase the OG and so bring the brew closer to balanced, but also increase your ABV to around 6.2%

You could add any hops as a steep or dry.  You will not get much more bitterness from a hot steep and none from a dry hop.

That's an excellent explanation of what i'm facing, thanks Sheamus. I reckon those figures will be a bit too bitter for me, i might try to brew 15 or 16 litres just to bring down the IBU. Brewmaster states it will be in the high 50's low 60"s, still a bit bitter?

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, Franham said:

That's an excellent explanation of what i'm facing, thanks Sheamus. I reckon those figures will be a bit too bitter for me, i might try to brew 15 or 16 litres just to bring down the IBU. Brewmaster states it will be in the high 50's low 60"s, still a bit bitter?

I think it all depends on your tastes.  I liked James Boags Strongarm Bitter and it was right up there.

High 50's/low 60's is in the Coopers Vintage brews range.  Although they do have more fermentables (higher OG) to match.  Even the recent Craft Recipe of the Month, Code Breaker IPA, is 60 IBU.  If you add the 500g of LDM to your brew, it should go okay.  Higher IBU's also go well with darker beers, which the Dark Ale certainly is and the Real Ale is starting to head toward.

[Franham]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:14 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

I think it all depends on your tastes.  I liked James Boags Strongarm Bitter and it was right up there.

High 50's/low 60's is in the Coopers Vintage brews range.  Although they do have more fermentables (higher OG) to match.  Even the recent Craft Recipe of the Month, Code Breaker IPA, is 60 IBU.  If you add the 500g of LDM to your brew, it should go okay.  Higher IBU's also go well with darker beers, which the Dark Ale certainly is and the Real Ale is starting to head toward.

I've just done some calculations in brewmaster, and if i had 500 grams or so of dex, it'll bring the ratio back to about 1/1.03. a big beer, but giddy up lol.

Thanks very much Sheamus, really insightful

[Thirsty Jim]

Shamus can you explain what the IBU cell (K21) relates to.  I have tried to figure the formula but my brain hurts when I do. 

[Shamus O'Sean]

17 hours ago, Thirsty Jim said:

Shamus can you explain what the IBU cell (K21) relates to.  I have tried to figure the formula but my brain hurts when I do. 

Nope.  Looked at it.  Don't understand it.  Witchcraft.

[Thirsty Jim]

Thanks for looking.  I am glad it is not just me.
It seems that the figure disappears if OG is outside style parameters, although why it returns a discounted IBU is beyond me.

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, Thirsty Jim said:

Thanks for looking.  I am glad it is not just me.
It seems that the figure disappears if OG is outside style parameters, although why it returns a discounted IBU is beyond me.

Agreed.  The formulae are tricky enough to follow.  But not knowing the "why" is where I was having more problems.