Krausen collar question!

[monsoons101]

Hi there,

I started a new brew with a Coopers krausen collar container and have a question. I've removed the krausen collar after the foam subsided(as per instructions) and put the lid back on. I was wondering how the air escapes without an airlock? And how do I know fermentation has stopped without being able to watch the bubbling of an airlock?

Thank you!

[Stickers]

1 hour ago, monsoons101 said:

Hi there,

I started a new brew with a Coopers krausen collar container and have a question. I've removed the krausen collar after the foam subsided(as per instructions) and put the lid back on. I was wondering how the air escapes without an airlock? And how do I know fermentation has stopped without being able to watch the bubbling of an airlock?

Thank you!

welcome to the forum. with the cooper's fermenters the lids aren't sealed so any extra Co2 will be released naturally, don't worry about that part. if your lid was screwed on you might get a build up of pressure but that wont happen with the lid on this one.

if you bought the cooper's starter kit you'll have a hydrometer, that is the best way of knowing when fermentation has finished. others might be able to explain that part better than i can.

[Oldbloke]

Have you watched this?

 

https://youtu.be/uGZEKesOPqk

[Spursman]

YouTube is a mine of information on brewing however there are a few contributors that are best avoided. Use common sense and when you see some idiot blowing his nose over an open fv, or running his hands through his hair just move on to the next vid.

This forum has many members who have decades of brewing experience that they are willing to share.

Ask and you shall receive. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 minutes ago, Spursman said:

YouTube is a mine of information on brewing however there are a few contributors that are best avoided. Use common sense and when you see some idiot blowing his nose over an open fv, or running his hands through his hair just move on to the next vid.

This forum has many members who have decades of brewing experience that they are willing to share.

Ask and you shall receive. 

I agree Coopers videos are the most reliable ones to watch as they cover everything from the very basic to advanced techniques, there are so many other 'colourful' types on there who don't follow the correct procedures with their hair hanging everywhere & being constantly fiddled with, patting the dog, shooing the cat of the bench constantly raving on offering shortcuts in their own lingo - videos like that should be avoided as @Spursman said.  Cleanliness & Sanitation are paramount as are measurements & temperature control.

There are a few genuine videos available & there is a plethora of information available on this forum.

[Aussiekraut]

15 hours ago, monsoons101 said:

Hi there,

I started a new brew with a Coopers krausen collar container and have a question. I've removed the krausen collar after the foam subsided(as per instructions) and put the lid back on. I was wondering how the air escapes without an airlock? And how do I know fermentation has stopped without being able to watch the bubbling of an airlock?

Thank you!

As it has been said, the lid of the current model Cooper's FVs is not sealed completely, even with the clips in. The CO2 released by the fermentation creates enough pressure to push excess gas out and at the same time prevent air from entering. When I first saw one of these FVs, I was a little confused too, why there wasn't an airlock. I like the FVs better than the old school ones though and my only criticism is that the tap is way too high up. There are something like 4l below it and you always have to tilt it to get all the goodness out of it.

[monsoons101]

Thanks for the clarification guys! Glad I found this forum. 

[monsoons101]

9 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

As it has been said, the lid of the current model Cooper's FVs is not sealed completely, even with the clips in. The CO2 released by the fermentation creates enough pressure to push excess gas out and at the same time prevent air from entering. When I first saw one of these FVs, I was a little confused too, why there wasn't an airlock. I like the FVs better than the old school ones though and my only criticism is that the tap is way too high up. There are something like 4l below it and you always have to tilt it to get all the goodness out of it.

Cheers! That makes sense. Do you leave the clips on the lid after the Krausen collar has been removed or does that not matter?

Yes, I had a few blokes say to me that they used the air lock to guide them as to when the brew I'd ready for bottling by waiting for it to stop bubbling. I guess I'll use the hydrometer on the FV to tell?

[Aussiekraut]

2 minutes ago, monsoons101 said:

Cheers! That makes sense. Do you leave the clips on the lid after the Krausen collar has been removed or does that not matter?

Yes, I had a few blokes say to me that they used the air lock to guide them as to when the brew I'd ready for bottling by waiting for it to stop bubbling. I guess I'll use the hydrometer on the FV to tell?

I do have a krausen collar but never used it. I used to use the clips but have stopped doing that a long time ago. 

The airlock is something people like because they can actually see something happen but it isn't a particularly reliable indicator for anything. One of my main FVs is an old school bucket with airlock hole and all and I have taped over the hole and that's it. I leave the lid a little loose, so CO2 can be pushed out. If the lid isn't mega tight, the airlock may not work properly, if it is too tight, you can't open the bugger afterwards. I am certain that the airlock was responsible for a few beers which had funky growth on the surface. It took me a while to pick up that when you have an airlock in and take a sample for the hydrometer, you actually need to remove the airlock or all that stagnant, microbe infested water in it will be sucked into the FV. I moved on to using a StellarSan solution in it to kill off microbes but then got rid of the airlock altogether. I haven't had any issues with white film on the surface of the beer since.

[Classic Brewing Co]

1 minute ago, monsoons101 said:

Cheers! That makes sense. Do you leave the clips on the lid after the Krausen collar has been removed or does that not matter?

Yes, I had a few blokes say to me that they used the air lock to guide them as to when the brew I'd ready for bottling by waiting for it to stop bubbling. I guess I'll use the hydrometer on the FV to tell?

It would pay to replace the clips after removing the Collar to prevent accidental opening of the FV.

Do not use the Airlock as a tool to whether you beer has finished fermenting, it is only a guide. The Hydrometer is your best reference, after about 10-14 days it would be ready be but it pays to take 2 consecutive days readings with the same result. Cheers. 

https://www.diybeer.com/au/coopers-diy-beer-hydrometer.html#:~:text=The Coopers DIY Beer Hydrometer is a finely,calculate the alcohol content of your finished beer.

[Spursman]

19 minutes ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

Do not use the Airlock as a tool to whether you beer has finished fermenting, it is only a guide. The Hydrometer is your best reference, after about 10-14 days it would be ready be but it pays to take 2 consecutive days readings with the same result.

All good advice above. I'll add one more thing: calibrate your hydrometer. The ones supplied with the kit are notoriously inaccurate. It won't be an issue if you're just determining whether fermentation is finished as you are just looking for a stable reading. However if you want to calculate ABV it's important have an accurate measurement. To calibrate just put regular water @20° into the tube, insert hydrometer. It should read 1.000. If it reads lower you'll need to nick tiny bits off the plastic tip. If it reads higher add a little weight. Simples. (I'm presuming you live at or near sea level. Calcs are different if you live on top of a mountain).

[ozdevil]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

my only criticism is that the tap is way too high up. There are something like 4l below it and you always have to tilt it to get all the goodness out of it.

have to agree ,    it is way up high   and 4 litres is a huge loss if bottling or kegging  depending on how much  you want to keg or bottle..

 

[Classic Brewing Co]

24 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

my only criticism is that the tap is way too high up. There are something like 4l below it and you always have to tilt it to get all the goodness out of it.

I agree the Ambi style fermenters taps are much lower but I have found with the Coopers FV using a yeast like US-05 ( where applicable ) there is hardly any waste as the trub is tightly packed on the bottom & elevating the vessel slightly to get the last bit doesn't stir it up but with a lot of other yeasts you have to be careful.

[Spursman]

18 hours ago, Classic Brewing Co said:

I agree the Ambi style fermenters taps are much lower but I have found with the Coopers FV using a yeast like US-05 ( where applicable ) there is hardly any waste as the trub is tightly packed on the bottom & elevating the vessel slightly to get the last bit doesn't stir it up but with a lot of other yeasts you have to be careful.

I've found that cold crashing at say 2° or lower for at least 4 days really firms up the yeast cake making it much easier to get clear beer out.

Next thing to try will be bulk priming in the fermenter. Funny how I'm never satisfied with anything any more. All you blokes are to blame for putting ideas in my head lol

[Classic Brewing Co]

19 minutes ago, Spursman said:

I've found that cold crashing at say 2° or lower for at least 4 days really firms up the yeast cake making it much easier to get clear beer out.

Next thing to try will be bulk priming in the fermenter. Funny how I'm never satisfied with anything any more. All you blokes are to blame for putting ideas in my head lol

I don't bother to cold crash as most of my beers this year have been brewed at ambient in my brew room which is on the bottom floor so temperature is pretty constant on 18-20c.

As Summer approaches I will set up the Temp Control in a brew fridge for a few brews but I prefer Pale Ales, IPA's so clear beer is not paramount.

[Bribie G]

Going back to the 1970s, home brewed beer was a poor cousin of home winemaking and most of the books by pretty good experts like C.J.J. Berry simply scaled up the equipment sizes and treated beer as being just a big batch of wine.

So we had totally unnecessary steps like racking off to secondary (which still rears its ugly head) and of course the Airlock of Doom which was needed if you were going to mature your wine in a big demijohn for a few months.

I the case of beer, home brewing took off in the last 30 years or so and has departed from a lot of the old winemaking traditions. I haven't used an airlock for maybe ten years and have only ever had to dump two brews made in modern home fermenters, and those because of poor yeast handling rather than any wild shit trying to get into the fermenter from the atmosphere while fighting against the CO2 pushing in the opposite direction.

Sometimes I even lose the mojo for a month or so and leave brews in a Coopers fermenter (I never use the clips) for six weeks and it matures just fine and no problems.

On topic, never had a krausen collar, I bought mine as two cut down kits from Big W with no collars.

 

 

[monsoons101]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:35 PM, Spursman said:

All good advice above. I'll add one more thing: calibrate your hydrometer. The ones supplied with the kit are notoriously inaccurate. It won't be an issue if you're just determining whether fermentation is finished as you are just looking for a stable reading. However if you want to calculate ABV it's important have an accurate measurement. To calibrate just put regular water @20° into the tube, insert hydrometer. It should read 1.000. If it reads lower you'll need to nick tiny bits off the plastic tip. If it reads higher add a little weight. Simples. (I'm presuming you live at or near sea level. Calcs are different if you live on top of a mountain).

Thanks again! 

I did the water check and it's on 1000. I've had my lager brew fermenting for 9 days. Just to clarify - what am I looking for to know when I can bottle? Just a consistent hydrometer reading? It's been at about 22 - 23 degrees the majority of the time. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

34 minutes ago, monsoons101 said:

Thanks again! 

I did the water check and it's on 1000. I've had my lager brew fermenting for 9 days. Just to clarify - what am I looking for to know when I can bottle? Just a consistent hydrometer reading? It's been at about 22 - 23 degrees the majority of the time. 

I would leave it for another 3-4 days & after that when you get a reading which is the same for 2 consecutive  days it is ready to bottle.

If you are using an airlock wait for that to finish, if you have it in a brew fridge with temperature control, you may want to cold crash to clear up the yeast.

Good Luck.

[Spursman]

3 hours ago, monsoons101 said:

Thanks again! 

I did the water check and it's on 1000. I've had my lager brew fermenting for 9 days. Just to clarify - what am I looking for to know when I can bottle? Just a consistent hydrometer reading? It's been at about 22 - 23 degrees the majority of the time. 

Yep, a consistent reading over 2 days will be a good indication that fermentation has finished and you can safely bottle. Keep the Hydrometer sample at the same temp as the fv. A lot of guys (me included) do let the brew sit for another few days for the yeast to clean things up a bit before bottling. 

Next challenge will be getting carbonation right. Can I suggest trying Muzzys 2.1 method which is 2 CSR sugar cubes per large PET bottle as a very good, consistent starting point. Just add to the bottle before filling then cap. No need to agitate or invert (in fact doing so is detrimental to the finished product).

Looking good, not long to wait now.

[monsoons101]

Another question I have is what type of beers are you guys brewing? Do the "knock off" ones like the VB clone kits work? 

[Spursman]

Not sure, never made one. 

Why the heck would you want to clone that mud water anyway?

[Journeyman]

55 minutes ago, monsoons101 said:

Another question I have is what type of beers are you guys brewing? Do the "knock off" ones like the VB clone kits work? 

Most do a reasonable job but if your ead around you will find many of the most popular 'mega-swill' beers in Australia have a hefty sugar addition (instead of malt) and Cluster or Pride of Ringwood hops. The ales and lagers preferred by most HB'ers have more flavour and texture hence comments like @Spursman above.  

But I doubt you will find anyone doing home brew who at one time DIDN'T drink a megaswill and usually go to battle against the version produced in other States.  

I've been planning (for way too long - it's hard to dedicate the FV to it  ) a brew that hopefully will appeal to guys who like whitefish beers, just to see if I can.

[monsoons101]

4 hours ago, Spursman said:

Not sure, never made one. 

Why the heck would you want to clone that mud water anyway?

Because I like it. 

[Classic Brewing Co]

12 hours ago, monsoons101 said:

Because I like it. 

[Coopers DIY Beer Team]

15 hours ago, monsoons101 said:

Because I like it. 

And there's nothing wrong with that, Monsoons. You're in a safe space here.