Bulk priming in fv questions

[Spursman]

Seriously considering trying this on the next brew. I cold crash all brews after d-rest. I've had a look at a couple of calculators and it seems pretty easy to work out the appropriate amount of sugar to use. However one calculator had a notation that d-resting and ccing MAY decrease the amount of sugar required due to increased absorbtion of co2 at the colder temp. So, now I'm confused. Do I go with the original calculation? Or do I make an arbitrary reduction in sugar?

[Aussiekraut]

12 hours ago, Spursman said:

Seriously considering trying this on the next brew. I cold crash all brews after d-rest. I've had a look at a couple of calculators and it seems pretty easy to work out the appropriate amount of sugar to use. However one calculator had a notation that d-resting and ccing MAY decrease the amount of sugar required due to increased absorbtion of co2 at the colder temp. So, now I'm confused. Do I go with the original calculation? Or do I make an arbitrary reduction in sugar?

I used to use this one, which also takes the beer temp into consideration.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

I generally used 180g dextrose in just enough hot water to dissolve it all for my pales and it seemed to sufficiently carbonate them. 

Stir it in gently and don't disturb the sediment bed. Let it sit for half hour or so and you should be good to go.

 

[ozdevil]

if i was to bottle   i would agree  with @Aussiekraut  in using brewersfriend

but how i would do it in a spare fermenter  or bottling bucket  i would put the priming solution in

then with a tubing long enough to curl around the fermenter bottom  i would then rack the wort onto
the  priming solution

This way you will not disturb the sediment bed Aussiekraut mentions

by doing this  not only does every bit of wort  gets the priming solution it makes sure  that  it mixes well

as gently whirlpools  into the f.v or bottling bucket..

 

 

[Spursman]

1 hour ago, Aussiekraut said:

I used to use this one, which also takes the beer temp into consideration.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

I generally used 180g dextrose in just enough hot water to dissolve it all for my pales and it seemed to sufficiently carbonate them. 

Stir it in gently and don't disturb the sediment bed. Let it sit for half hour or so and you should be good to go.

 

Thanks AK. I did look at the one you referred to and it all made sense until the notation about cold temps. I will be using table sugar and the warmest the brew was fermenting at was 21°. The question now is what temp do I set in the calculator? Is it 21° or something lower to take into account ccing at 1°?

[Aussiekraut]

16 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Thanks AK. I did look at the one you referred to and it all made sense until the notation about cold temps. I will be using table sugar and the warmest the brew was fermenting at was 21°. The question now is what temp do I set in the calculator? Is it 21° or something lower to take into account ccing at 1°?

Just set the temperature you are going to store the bottles at. The beer will be ice cold after the CC but there won't be any fermentation going on. The yeast won't kick in until you reach a temperature it can actually do what it needs to do, so don't worry about it. 

[Worts and all]

3 hours ago, ozdevil said:

This way you will not disturb the sediment bed Aussiekraut mentions

 

 

Aussiekraut actually mentions that you do not disturb the sediment. There need be no disturbance, not even a little , of the sediment if a little care is taken. I see no advantage whatsoever in racking to a second vessel. I understand that some do prefer it, but I see only more work. I am not a fan of more work.

[ozdevil]

Just now, Worts and all said:

Aussiekraut actually mentions that you do not disturb the sediment. There need be no disturbance, not even a little , of the sediment if a little care is taken. I see no advantage whatsoever in racking to a second vessel. I understand that some do prefer it, but I see only more work. I am not a fan of more work.

@Worts and all

i am purely giving an alternative method 

both methods work very well.  

i am not forcing  anyone to do the method i mentioned  it is an alternative method.

your right to do it your way as it it is my right to do it my way . there is no right or wrong method

There is no wrong in by giving alternative methods That do work as well

As well I didnt  say Aussiekraut didnt mention  that you do not disturb  the sediment

I am saying the racking to the new sanitized f.v or bottling Bucket wont disturb the sediment

Nothing having a shot saying A.K's method doesn't work  

I wasnt questioning A.K's method at all  

 

[Tricky Micky]

9 minutes ago, Worts and all said:

3 hours ago, ozdevil said:

This way you will not disturb the sediment bed Aussiekraut mentions

 

 

Aussiekraut actually mentions that you do not disturb the sediment. There need be no disturbance, not even a little , of the sediment if a little care is taken. I see no advantage whatsoever in racking to a second vessel. I understand that some do prefer it, but I see only more work. I am not a fan of more work.

These posts here show how there are many ways to the top of the mountain - the cat can be skun several ways I suppose.

From day one I've bulked primed my brews for bottling. I I bulk prime in the primary FV. I'm careful not to disturb the trub, but on the odd occasion where I might've have it settles really quickly - in less than an hour.  I'd had the odd carbonation failure, but since I've extended the time of the sugar mix sitting in the wort after having been stirred from 30 minutes to about an hour and a half. Never had a problem with carbonation since. 

[ozdevil]

9 minutes ago, Mickep said:

These posts here show how there are many ways to the top of the mountain - the cat can be skun several ways I suppose.

From day one I've bulked primed my brews for bottling. I I bulk prime in the primary FV. I'm careful not to disturb the trub, but on the odd occasion where I might've have it settles really quickly - in less than an hour.  I'd had the odd carbonation failure, but since I've extended the time of the sugar mix sitting in the wort after having been stirred from 30 minutes to about an hour and a half. Never had a problem with carbonation since. 

exactly there is many more ways to skin a cat  

and that was my intentions    to show there is other methods and just 1 methods

up to any individual how they feel the most comfortable doing it.

 

[Tricky Micky]

3 minutes ago, ozdevil said:

exactly there is many more ways to skin a cat  

and that was my intentions    to show there is other methods and just 1 methods

up to any individual how they feel the most comfortable doing it.

And that's what is so great about this forum Oz mate, all these different ideas floating about here from all these incredibly knowledgeable brewers with their brewing experience and so willing to share- it's fantastic. Thanks for sharing mate. Hey Oz how's your health going?

[Worts and all]

21 minutes ago, Mickep said:

And that's what is so great about this forum Oz mate, all these different ideas floating about here from all these incredibly knowledgeable brewers with their brewing experience and so willing to share- it's fantastic. Thanks for sharing mate. Hey Oz how's your health going?

I agree wholeheartedly. I, too, welcome the wide range of opinions on the forum, and the diverse and interesting methods discussed. I have my methods and welcome the chance to describe them ,and give reasons why I employ them. I would never be so presumptuous as to decry anybody else’s methods. I may, however reasonably explain why I don’t use them. That was my intention.I regret that my meaning was slightly misinterpreted. Happy brewing to all!

[DavidM]

I have not bulk primed Yet, was reading about it and thought I'd like to try

But.. Wife helps out with priming the bottles as I fill so it's not needed right now.

Might when she is not helping..

We are all different, some are getting better results

some are not, whilst doing the same thing.

[Spursman]

22 hours ago, Aussiekraut said:

Just set the temperature you are going to store the bottles at. The beer will be ice cold after the CC but there won't be any fermentation going on. The yeast won't kick in until you reach a temperature it can actually do what it needs to do, so don't worry about it. 

Below is the notation from the calculator page. You can probably understand why I'm a bit confused. They say set the temp in the calculator at the fermentation temp (in my case 21°) then have the caveat about lowering temp levels if ccing. They don't say to set temp at bottling temp.

Temperature of Beer used for computing dissolved CO₂:
The beer you are about to package already contains some CO₂ since it is a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. The amount is temperature dependent. The temperature to enter is usually the fermentation temperature of the beer, but might also be the current temperature of the beer. If the fermentation temperature and the current beer temperature are the same life is simple.

However, if the beer was cold crashed, or put through a diacetyl rest, or the temperature changed for some other reason... you will need to use your judgment to decide which temperature is most representative. During cold crashing, some of the CO₂ in the head space will go back into the beer. If you cold crashed for a very long time this may represent a significant increase in dissolved CO₂. There is a lot of online debate about this and the internet is thin on concrete answers backed by research. We are open to improving the calculator so please let us know of any sources that clarify this point.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Spursman

[Aussiekraut]

1 hour ago, Spursman said:

Below is the notation from the calculator page. You can probably understand why I'm a bit confused. They say set the temp in the calculator at the fermentation temp (in my case 21°) then have the caveat about lowering temp levels if ccing. They don't say to set temp at bottling temp.

Temperature of Beer used for computing dissolved CO₂:
The beer you are about to package already contains some CO₂ since it is a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. The amount is temperature dependent. The temperature to enter is usually the fermentation temperature of the beer, but might also be the current temperature of the beer. If the fermentation temperature and the current beer temperature are the same life is simple.

However, if the beer was cold crashed, or put through a diacetyl rest, or the temperature changed for some other reason... you will need to use your judgment to decide which temperature is most representative. During cold crashing, some of the CO₂ in the head space will go back into the beer. If you cold crashed for a very long time this may represent a significant increase in dissolved CO₂. There is a lot of online debate about this and the internet is thin on concrete answers backed by research. We are open to improving the calculator so please let us know of any sources that clarify this point.

It is correct that the finished beer contains some CO2 but not in humongous amounts. And if you are dry hopping and taking the hops out of the FV before CC, there won't be much CO2 left in the headspace of the FV as it has well and truly been disturbed. If you bottle a beer from an ice cold FV and cap it without any priming sugar in it, it will be as flat as they come and there won't be the slightest "pffff" when you open it weeks later, even when at room temperature. IMHO, best bet is to base things on the expected storage temp of the bottles. I usually cold crash for 5 days @0C and always used to prime for storage temp. Never had a bottle bomb using this method.  

[Spursman]

37 minutes ago, Aussiekraut said:

It is correct that the finished beer contains some CO2 but not in humongous amounts. And if you are dry hopping and taking the hops out of the FV before CC, there won't be much CO2 left in the headspace of the FV as it has well and truly been disturbed. If you bottle a beer from an ice cold FV and cap it without any priming sugar in it, it will be as flat as they come and there won't be the slightest "pffff" when you open it weeks later, even when at room temperature. IMHO, best bet is to base things on the expected storage temp of the bottles. I usually cold crash for 5 days @0C and always used to prime for storage temp. Never had a bottle bomb using this method.  

Thanks AK. Im5 gunna do a 23 litrebatch with table sugar. Will hope for the best.

[Oldbloke]

I always bottle. I always fill FV to 21 litres.

On bottling day.

1 ltr boiled water in a jug and stir in 250g of sugar then add 1 ltr cold water from tap.

Let it cool.

Gently pour the 2 litres of syrup and stir into the FV.  Let it settle for 15 to 20 minutes and bottle as normal.

 

All Good

Edited October 21, 2021 by oldbloke

[Worts and all]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:20 PM, oldbloke said:

I always bottle. I always fill FV to 21 litres.

On bottling day.

1 ltr boiled water in a jug and stir in 250g of sugar then add 1 ltr cold water from tap.

Let it cool.

Gently pour the 2 litres of syrup and stir into the FV.  Let it settle for 15 to 20 minutes and bottle as normal.

 

All Good

250g in 23 litres? That’s a lot of priming! I’d be interested in the results. Do you have trouble pouring with excessive froth? I would expect too much Co2 “ bite” for my taste ,overwhelming the flavour of the beer.I use 160-180g of dextrose in the same volume brew and get plenty of carbonation and lovely heads. Perhaps you just like it very effervescent. I am constantly fascinated by the difference in brewers’ tastes and methods, and your level of priming is certainly different. Cheers.

[Spursman]

2 hours ago, Worts and all said:

250g in 23 litres? That’s a lot of priming! I’d be interested in the results. Do you have trouble pouring with excessive froth? I would expect too much Co2 “ bite” for my taste ,overwhelming the flavour of the beer.I use 160-180g of dextrose in the same volume brew and get plenty of carbonation and lovely heads. Perhaps you just like it very effervescent. I am constantly fascinated by the difference in brewers’ tastes and methods, and your level of priming is certainly different. Cheers.

Yeah, 250g does seem a lot but hey, i haven't done it yet so wtf do i know! The online calculators seem to average out at 150 - 160g of table sugar to get around 2.7 volumes which should be plenty.

[Aussiekraut]

8 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Yeah, 250g does seem a lot but hey, i haven't done it yet so wtf do i know! The online calculators seem to average out at 150 - 160g of table sugar to get around 2.7 volumes which should be plenty.

250g is a fair bit. I used to use about 180g dex and it worked fine. 

[Oldbloke]

Agree, sounds a lot. About 4 grams a stubbie. Head is average I guess.

But I just do mainly coopers dark or English ale & add 500g of BE 3.

[Worts and all]

10 minutes ago, oldbloke said:

Agree, sounds a lot. About 4 grams a stubbie. Head is average I guess.

But I just do mainly coopers dark or English ale & add 500g of BE 3.

A couple of my favourite brews there. With both I use 1kg of light dry malt, not BE. Priming dark brews I find a lower priming level suits me better. Around 160g works fine for me. If, like me, you love a fine, creamy head, substitute 150-200g of the malt with the same amount of wheat malt. I can discern no difference in taste, but the head is beautiful. Cheers.

[Oldbloke]

I was using DLM 500g. But giving the BE3 ago. Seems much the same to me. Head is fine

[Oldbloke]

The original instructions day 8g per litre. I'm doing 8g for 750ml.

 

Perhaps I could make it 7g per 750ml.

 

This is a Real Ale I just opened. Head is ok. But not fantastic.

 

https://brew2bottle.co.uk/pages/coopers-beer-kits-instructions

[Spursman]

Did my first bulk priming in fv on friday last. Think it all went well. 160gms of table sugar for 23 litres. PETS are quite firm after only a few days which is much quicker than when I bottle prime. Should I be worried?

[Greenyinthewestofsydney]

28 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Did my first bulk priming in fv on friday last. Think it all went well. 160gms of table sugar for 23 litres. PETS are quite firm after only a few days which is much quicker than when I bottle prime. Should I be worried?

Did you get more yeast in the bottles than the normal bottle prime? In my experience. More yeast equals much quicker carbonation.