Coopers Craft IPA Recipes Too Malty

[RDW]

I’ve been brewing for several months with the craft kit, working my way through the database of recipes. Thus far I’ve tried 17 recipes and have been pretty impressed by most. The darker stouts and browns have been very good. The IPAs and pales not so. I’m a hop head and have dialled up the hops in the boil and the dry hop/hop tea and have found a good balance there for hop flavour, aroma and bitterness, but I do find that the recipes come out far too dark, malty, biscuity and caramel-y. Could this be the use of the malt extract pouch? Any thoughts or advice on leaving it out of a recipe and what that would do to the final brew, or replacing with DME? If I were to replace with DME would that help with body and alcohol content but reduce the heavy maltiness? Cheers!

[Classic Brewing Co]

39 minutes ago, RDW said:

I’ve been brewing for several months with the craft kit, working my way through the database of recipes. Thus far I’ve tried 17 recipes and have been pretty impressed by most. The darker stouts and browns have been very good. The IPAs and pales not so. I’m a hop head and have dialled up the hops in the boil and the dry hop/hop tea and have found a good balance there for hop flavour, aroma and bitterness, but I do find that the recipes come out far too dark, malty, biscuity and caramel-y. Could this be the use of the malt extract pouch? Any thoughts or advice on leaving it out of a recipe and what that would do to the final brew, or replacing with DME? If I were to replace with DME would that help with body and alcohol content but reduce the heavy maltiness? Cheers!

@RDW I have a Craft Kit & so far have pretty much stuck to the smallish range of Mr Beer cans 1.3kg made by Coopers, my favourite is the Northwest Pale Ale, the Pale Ale & the Golden Ale are also very nice. I find with the IPA range they also come out fairly dark especially if LME is used. The last Northwest Pale I decided to use LDME instead & it turned out much better, not quite as heavy but still heaps of body etc.

I assume you have tried using a Coopers 1.7kg can for a recipe & cut it back to 11litres volume - I did this with a European Lager & used only 500gm LDME & although it was still darker than it should have been it was really nice. I am also a Hop freak & love to use them liberally in most brews.

We have a LBHS in Adelaide who actually stocks the Mr Beer range so I top up from time to time just to keep the Craft Kit working.

Cheers.

Phil

[jamiek86]

I found when I kegged a craft IPA it was too sweet for me after a week if that's what u mean. Almost like too much crystal malt was in it which I haven't got the taste for

[Classic Brewing Co]

Yeah I don't think I would bother with the IPA's anymore as they were sweet as dark, malty etc, the Pales are much better.

[Shamus O'Sean]

2 hours ago, RDW said:

I’ve been brewing for several months with the craft kit, working my way through the database of recipes. Thus far I’ve tried 17 recipes and have been pretty impressed by most. The darker stouts and browns have been very good. The IPAs and pales not so. I’m a hop head and have dialled up the hops in the boil and the dry hop/hop tea and have found a good balance there for hop flavour, aroma and bitterness, but I do find that the recipes come out far too dark, malty, biscuity and caramel-y. Could this be the use of the malt extract pouch? Any thoughts or advice on leaving it out of a recipe and what that would do to the final brew, or replacing with DME? If I were to replace with DME would that help with body and alcohol content but reduce the heavy maltiness? Cheers!

Your description of the beers sounds like what people expect in a craft beer.  Maybe they are designed that way on purpose.  If you find these flavours a bit too much, dare I say it, maybe try some plain sugar in the recipe.  Say 150 - 200g.

Light Dry Malt and Liquid Malt Extract should be pretty much the same thing if from the same manufacturer.  From what people say on here, there is a slight preference for the liquid variants. 

[jamiek86]

talking about this I actually just ordered 4 more north west pale ale they are also my favourite @CLASSIC. If anyone want a free diablo IPA and the other one I'll gladly post it free If pm me adress as I don't think I'll bother brewing to give them away would rather just give tins away.

[Classic Brewing Co]

Very Generous @jamiek86  I am sure someone will take up your offer.

[Journeyman]

23 hours ago, CLASSIC said:

Very Generous @jamiek86  I am sure someone will take up your offer.

Yep! I did. @jamiek86is kindly sending me the cans - gives me an opportunity to try ones I normally would get.

[Classic Brewing Co]

5 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Yep! I did. @jamiek86is kindly sending me the cans - gives me an opportunity to try ones I normally would get.

Well @Journeyman  you have done alright for yourself, we hope to see photos of the finished product, good on you Jamie, take the rest of the day off !!

[RDW]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:03 AM, Shamus O'Sean said:

Your description of the beers sounds like what people expect in a craft beer.  Maybe they are designed that way on purpose.  If you find these flavours a bit too much, dare I say it, maybe try some plain sugar in the recipe.  Say 150 - 200g.

Light Dry Malt and Liquid Malt Extract should be pretty much the same thing if from the same manufacturer.  From what people say on here, there is a slight preference for the liquid variants. 

Thanks Shamus. It’s not so much I don’t like the malt flavours per se, more so they are not desirable in the style I’m going for, which is a more of a hopped up West coast IPA.
So...If I were to substitute the 250g Coopers unhopped malt extract pouch which appear in the majority of the craft series recipes with plain white sugar as you suggest, I suppose that would give me a similar alcohol content without the strong maltiness? Do I literally just dissolve the sugar alongside the tin extract straight in the FV, and add a hop boil as per normal recipe? Thanks for the guidance...much appreciated!

[jamiek86]

@RDW that's pretty much it as long as you realise by doing this you will loose the body and mouthfeel and head retention etc.

[Shamus O'Sean]

25 minutes ago, RDW said:

Thanks Shamus. It’s not so much I don’t like the malt flavours per se, more so they are not desirable in the style I’m going for, which is a more of a hopped up West coast IPA.
So...If I were to substitute the 250g Coopers unhopped malt extract pouch which appear in the majority of the craft series recipes with plain white sugar as you suggest, I suppose that would give me a similar alcohol content without the strong maltiness? Do I literally just dissolve the sugar alongside the tin extract straight in the FV, and add a hop boil as per normal recipe? Thanks for the guidance...much appreciated!

A couple of things about a 'direct' comparison Liquid Extract ABV to Sugar ABV potential. 

1. The 250g Coopers unhopped malt extract pouches are about 20% water.  Therefore they only contain about 200g of fermentables.
2. The 200g of fermentables is about 95% fermentable.
3. Sugar is 100% fermentable

So to get the same ABV from Sugar as 250g of Liquid Extract use 250 x 0.8 x 0.95 = 190g of Sugar.  I think I got that right.  I have messed up the conversions before.

And yes.  Just dissolve sugar in the FV alongside the can of hopped extract.  In fact, it does not even need to be dissolved because it will dissolve on its own in the water and the yeast will get to it.  If you want to measure a correct OG, you need to dissolve your fermentables.

And what @jamiek86 said.  But the Craft cans still pack a good punch of those attributes anyway.

[RDW]

On 8/8/2021 at 10:15 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

A couple of things about a 'direct' comparison Liquid Extract ABV to Sugar ABV potential. 

1. The 250g Coopers unhopped malt extract pouches are about 20% water.  Therefore they only contain about 200g of fermentables.
2. The 200g of fermentables is about 95% fermentable.
3. Sugar is 100% fermentable

So to get the same ABV from Sugar as 250g of Liquid Extract use 250 x 0.8 x 0.95 = 190g of Sugar.  I think I got that right.  I have messed up the conversions before.

And yes.  Just dissolve sugar in the FV alongside the can of hopped extract.  In fact, it does not even need to be dissolved because it will dissolve on its own in the water and the yeast will get to it.  If you want to measure a correct OG, you need to dissolve your fermentables.

And what @jamiek86 said.  But the Craft cans still pack a good punch of those attributes anyway.

Hi @Shamus O'Sean

thought you might like to know how I went with your recommendation…I just cracked the first bottle (11 days or so since  bottling) and it was bloody beautiful…just what I’m looking for…plenty of hoppy bite but with tropical hoppiness aromas and not too malty. I basically followed your rec. re adding sugar instead of the malt extract pouch but boosted with some crystal malt grains in a 30min steep (this basically came out like a porridge so I’ve got some learning to do there methinks!).

Plenty of hops in the boil and the dry hop and I was a very happy little hop head tonight! Will be sticking the rest of the batch in the fridge ASAP.

[Shamus O'Sean]

That looks outstanding @RDW.  I am ecstatic it turned out well for you.  I try to refrain from drinking on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.  But, I tell you, the description of your beer is making me very tempted tonight.

[iBooz2]

1 hour ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

I try to refrain from drinking on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Liar, liar, pants on fire ha ha   Tonight's the night to break that spell.

[Hairy]

7 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Liar, liar, pants on fire ha ha   

Perhaps not. I try to refrain from drinking Monday to Wednesday; I'm just unsuccessful.

[RDW]

13 hours ago, Shamus O'Sean said:

That looks outstanding @RDW.  I am ecstatic it turned out well for you.  I try to refrain from drinking on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.  But, I tell you, the description of your beer is making me very tempted tonight.

Me too re. the weekday drinking, but my impatience got the better of me this time!

[RDW]

On 8/8/2021 at 10:15 PM, Shamus O'Sean said:

A couple of things about a 'direct' comparison Liquid Extract ABV to Sugar ABV potential. 

1. The 250g Coopers unhopped malt extract pouches are about 20% water.  Therefore they only contain about 200g of fermentables.
2. The 200g of fermentables is about 95% fermentable.
3. Sugar is 100% fermentable

So to get the same ABV from Sugar as 250g of Liquid Extract use 250 x 0.8 x 0.95 = 190g of Sugar.  I think I got that right.  I have messed up the conversions before.

And yes.  Just dissolve sugar in the FV alongside the can of hopped extract.  In fact, it does not even need to be dissolved because it will dissolve on its own in the water and the yeast will get to it.  If you want to measure a correct OG, you need to dissolve your fermentables.

And what @jamiek86 said.  But the Craft cans still pack a good punch of those attributes anyway.

Hi again @Shamus O'Sean been a longish time between drinks (rest assured I’ve had a few between then and now though!) and I thought you’d like to know I’m just sampling another recipe where I substituted a malt pouch with some sugar….this time the Earl Grey IPA craft recipe. And what a ripper!!! Don’t think I’ll ever use the pouches again. The balance is perfect now…the malts shine through without overpowering everything else and, in this brew particularly, the delicate Earl Grey flavours come through amazingly. I’m sure if I’d used the pouch it would have been so malt-heavy as to have spoiled everything else so, sincerely, a thousand thank yous for pointing me in the right direction! 

[Shamus O'Sean]

6 hours ago, RDW said:

Hi again @Shamus O'Sean been a longish time between drinks (rest assured I’ve had a few between then and now though!) and I thought you’d like to know I’m just sampling another recipe where I substituted a malt pouch with some sugar….this time the Earl Grey IPA craft recipe. And what a ripper!!! Don’t think I’ll ever use the pouches again. The balance is perfect now…the malts shine through without overpowering everything else and, in this brew particularly, the delicate Earl Grey flavours come through amazingly. I’m sure if I’d used the pouch it would have been so malt-heavy as to have spoiled everything else so, sincerely, a thousand thank yous for pointing me in the right direction! 

That sounds like a great outcome RDW.  The beer certainly looks outstanding.  Great depth of colour and good head.  I was tempted to try that recipe because I like Earl Grey Tea, but I have not got around to it.

[Dustin Frothman]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:43 AM, Classic Brewing Co said:

 

We have a LBHS in Adelaide who actually stocks the Mr Beer range so I top up from time to time just to keep the Craft Kit working.

Cheers.

Phil

Hi Phil, which one is this? I'd be interested to pick up a couple.

Cheers.

[Classic Brewing Co]

7 hours ago, Dustin Frothman said:

Hi Phil, which one is this? I'd be interested to pick up a couple.

Cheers.

 

Hi @Dustin Frothman Call in & say g'day to Bill at Brewmaker, Holden Hill, he stocks a large Coopers range including Mr Beer Cans of Extract.

He is a great bloke & has been in business at that address since 1992 & another location for years earlier. You might mention the Coopers forum as I have on my visits, he may acknowledge me as Classic. Anyway I hope you find what you are looking for.

Cheers

Phil

http://brewmaker.com.au/

Edited December 3, 2021 by Classic Brewing Co