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58 L SS Kegmenter


iBooz2

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Thought I would start a tread re this bit of gear (58 L SS Kegmenter) just to document the pros / cons and how I will work around the challenges faced when using one of these big bad boys.

I also purchased the pressure ferment lid with its floating dip tube and was a bit disappointed that this kit does not come with another 4" tri-clover EPDM beaded seal which would have been nice as a spare because I can see how easy it would be to misfit and crush the original one on the keg.  Just going to have to be a little bit careful when re-fitting until I get another couple in my spares box.

I also stuck some big yellow warning stickers on it to remind me to depressurize it before opening as I had a scare with my Fermzilla unit a while back.  In that case I forgot that I had pumped it up to about 10 psi to push the cleaner through all the ball lock connectors and hoses and then left it like that for a few days.  Come time to rinse it and just undid the screw on lid.  Initially if did nothing but as I went to put my hand on one of the port the bloody thing popped off, up at me and scared the crap out of me.  So lesson learned and some big stickers to remind me went on this new one.

58 L Kegmenter - resized.jpg

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2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Thought I would start a tread re this bit of gear (58 L SS Kegmenter) just to document the pros / cons and how I will work around the challenges faced when using one of these big bad boys.

I also purchased the pressure ferment lid with its floating dip tube and was a bit disappointed that this kit does not come with another 4" tri-clover EPDM beaded seal which would have been nice as a spare because I can see how easy it would be to misfit and crush the original one on the keg.  Just going to have to be a little bit careful when re-fitting until I get another couple in my spares box.

I also stuck some big yellow warning stickers on it to remind me to depressurize it before opening as I had a scare with my Fermzilla unit a while back.  In that case I forgot that I had pumped it up to about 10 psi to push the cleaner through all the ball lock connectors and hoses and then left it like that for a few days.  Come time to rinse it and just undid the screw on lid.  Initially if did nothing but as I went to put my hand on one of the port the bloody thing popped off, up at me and scared the crap out of me.  So lesson learned and some big stickers to remind me went on this new one.

58 L Kegmenter - resized.jpg

Looks good mate, you’ll have to let us all know how it performed, as this is my next brewing investment, I like the 58L.

Lucky escape with the Fermzilla mate.

‘Good brewing 🍻🍻

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@iBooz2 yeah you should grab a few spare EPDM seals when you get a chance, they are not expensive. I have not managed to crush the bead on mine by not aligning it correctly - yet, but they do have a limited life. I am on my 2nd seal after about some use as they do seem to lose some elasticity over time.

I think that you will love the kegmenter Al, I certainly love mine. About the only disadvantage that I have noticed is that you cant see what is going on inside, but that is not a big deal for me. I would love to have a 58lt like the version you have but I need to work out some way of handling them in my brewery, weight - wise.

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19 hours ago, Red devil 44 said:

Looks good mate, you’ll have to let us all know how it performed, as this is my next brewing investment, I like the 58L.

Lucky escape with the Fermzilla mate.

Yep will do RD and hence this thread.  Lucky it was only 10 psi and not 30.  Good wake up call to be more diligent.

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4 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

The only issue I have is they are heavy.   I use a 50 litre keg and with a double brew in it  it weighs nearly 60kg and can be a bugger to move into my fermentation chamber. 

Yes a few of us had a chat about weights and the man handling required on another thread.  My plan is to have it in the FV fridge when I fill it but that has also presented some other challenges too.

I have a list of the challenges that needed to be overcome in my situation all typed up.  Did this so I could kick the different solution ideas around in my head before I committed to the purchase.  These are on another PC and will post them up as it may help others decide if they want to go down this path.

Would have thought you could dead lift two of these full given your weightlifting experiences. ha ha😆🏋️‍♂️

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4 hours ago, MartyG1525230263 said:

The only issue I have is they are heavy.   I use a 50 litre keg and with a double brew in it  it weighs nearly 60kg and can be a bugger to move into my fermentation chamber. 

20210731_072145.jpg

I have an electric winch over my keezer, so just wrap my sling through the keg at the top and away I go, I use that for my 19L kegs so I’ll do the same with the big boy once I buy it.

Hurt my back last year lugging kegs in & out so invested in the winch from Bunnings, works well, best $128 I’ve ever spent along with the $80 fermenting fridges 

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17 hours ago, kmar92 said:

@iBooz2 yeah you should grab a few spare EPDM seals when you get a chance, they are not expensive. I have not managed to crush the bead on mine by not aligning it correctly - yet, but they do have a limited life. I am on my 2nd seal after about some use as they do seem to lose some elasticity over time.

I think that you will love the kegmenter Al, I certainly love mine. About the only disadvantage that I have noticed is that you cant see what is going on inside, but that is not a big deal for me. I would love to have a 58lt like the version you have but I need to work out some way of handling them in my brewery, weight - wise.

Yep K, I got two more seals on order just in case.

Knowing whats going on inside is also not a biggy for me either, just going to go on time, temp, pressure and SG's.  First double banger batch planned will be using Dubbya and my Leigh's Lager recipe just so I can compare with previous batches.  Plan is to start with about 10 psi then up the ferment temp by 50% above my normal so do the main ferment at 18 C then the D-rest at 25 C under a higher pressure maybe 30 psi but unsure yet.  I am going to document it each day and plot stuff like I normally do so I can get a handle on where I can push it and where I cannot or should not go.  Once I have my ferment profile fine tuned it will just become the norm then and will not have to worry too much about what it looks like inside.  The first one will be a bit wasteful as I plan on taking a fresh sample every day until the end in order to get all the data points I need for my plot.

Pressure testing the seals and any leaks this afternoon before a real batch next Tuesday.

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2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Would have thought you could dead lift two of these full given your weightlifting experiences. ha ha😆🏋️‍♂️

Yea can lift it ok but I am a short bugger so it is getting up over the lip of the freezer.  There are some simple solutions  but I would rather keep man handling it until I have to stop.  Im 65 now and once I stop there is no returning to it.  If you know what I mean.   

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On 7/30/2021 at 12:55 PM, iBooz2 said:

I also stuck some big yellow warning stickers on it to remind me to depressurize it before opening as I had a scare with my Fermzilla unit a while back.  In that case I forgot that I had pumped it up to about 10 psi to push the cleaner through all the ball lock connectors and hoses and then left it like that for a few days.  Come time to rinse it and just undid the screw on lid.  Initially if did nothing but as I went to put my hand on one of the port the bloody thing popped off, up at me and scared the crap out of me

Not sure if it still happens but back in the old days in pubs with 18 gallon kegs, I doubt there was a single barman doing cellar work who didn't get a nasty whack on the forehead (usually - sometimes shoulder) at least once when the spear blew out of the keg under pressure. 😄 

Unless you were stupid, it only ever happened once - per barman... 😄

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1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

Not sure if it still happens but back in the old days in pubs with 18 gallon kegs, I doubt there was a single barman doing cellar work who didn't get a nasty whack on the forehead (usually - sometimes shoulder) at least once when the spear blew out of the keg under pressure. 😄 

Unless you were stupid, it only ever happened once - per barman... 😄

I  must have been one of the smart ones. Was not hit by a spear but did get the odd spray of beer on the  black and whites.   

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5 hours ago, Journeyman said:

Not sure if it still happens but back in the old days in pubs with 18 gallon kegs, I doubt there was a single barman doing cellar work who didn't get a nasty whack on the forehead (usually - sometimes shoulder) at least once when the spear blew out of the keg under pressure. 😄 

Unless you were stupid, it only ever happened once - per barman... 😄

Funny you should mention that.

Many years ago, my mates and I were camped up for a week on the Murray River at Ned’s Corner Station (between Lake Cullulleraine VIC and Renmark SA).  It was in March, so it was still nudging the warmish 40 C mark.  One afternoon 3 blokes rock up in a Ute and parked just up in the next camping spot from us.  All they had were swags, a couple of fishing rods and an 18-gal keg of beer.  No ice, no eskys, nothing to cook or cook on and nothing to sit on or anything else that most campers would need in the bush.  They said they were going to catch fish and live off the land.

They unloaded the keg onto the riverbank and proceeded to try at get it tapped.  Mind you there is not much shade around those campsites so there was not a lot of cool options other than in the river.  One of them called me over to see if I knew how to do it and I simply said I have seen it done but never spiked and tapped a keg myself so could not help them.
After a bit more bush banter I turned to head back to my blokes.  Hear a commotion, turned to see the spike mechanism flying through the air and landing in the river. Two guys had their hands over the bung hole trying to stop the flow of beer which was squirting everywhere. One of them yelling at his other mate to jump into the river to duck dive and fish the spike back out.

Funniest thing we had seen in years.  All my blokes come over to see what the hell had happened, and we still talk about it when we get together.
They did fish the spike out of the river and finally got it set up and then they just sat there on the riverbank for two days in the blazing sun trying to drink that keg dry before it got to manifold temperature.  First night there was some loud-ish music which we did not mind as it was sort of what we liked anyway.  They were very quiet the next day and night and then they invited us down for a free beer but by that time it was time to tip it out.
 

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9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Yep K, I got two more seals on order just in case.

Knowing whats going on inside is also not a biggy for me either, just going to go on time, temp, pressure and SG's.  First double banger batch planned will be using Dubbya and my Leigh's Lager recipe just so I can compare with previous batches.  Plan is to start with about 10 psi then up the ferment temp by 50% above my normal so do the main ferment at 18 C then the D-rest at 25 C under a higher pressure maybe 30 psi but unsure yet.  I am going to document it each day and plot stuff like I normally do so I can get a handle on where I can push it and where I cannot or should not go.  Once I have my ferment profile fine tuned it will just become the norm then and will not have to worry too much about what it looks like inside.  The first one will be a bit wasteful as I plan on taking a fresh sample every day until the end in order to get all the data points I need for my plot.

Pressure testing the seals and any leaks this afternoon before a real batch next Tuesday.

@iBooz2 it is self explanatory I guess, but do not confuse the posts on the kegmenter. Knowing the problems that may arise, I managed to brew multiple brews without problems. However one day I managed to attach the floating pick up tube to the gas post. It was not pretty. Spent hours cleaning up after that mistake!

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6 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

@iBooz2 it is self explanatory I guess, but do not confuse the posts on the kegmenter. Knowing the problems that may arise, I managed to brew multiple brews without problems. However one day I managed to attach the floating pick up tube to the gas post. It was not pretty. Spent hours cleaning up after that mistake!

Thanks K, yep I looked at that and put a big texta mark on / near the gas post (as I do all my kegs) so I could pick it up in the dark or dim lighting of the brew fridge / brewery cave.  Those little marks on the post are not easy to spot in low light.

BTW the pressure and leak test passed with flying colours so it will be a SP soak tomorrow and a rinse / sanitise ready for Tuesdays pitch.

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9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Thanks K, yep I looked at that and put a big texta mark on / near the gas post (as I do all my kegs) so I could pick it up in the dark or dim lighting of the brew fridge / brewery cave.  Those little marks on the post are not easy to spot in low light.

It is more making sure when you rinse the kegmenter. If you have taken the dip tube off to clean it make sure it is replaced on the correct post.   Good thing is you will never do it twice.  

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I think I will definitely buy the 58L kegmenter, good tip @iBooz2 about the seal, I like spares so I’ll invest in a few.

‘Not sure whether I will ferment then serve from it, or transfer to other kegs once fermentation is finished.

Reason being I’m worried about the yeast & trub settling on the bottom of the keg which may lead to blocking of the dip tube whilst serving 🤔🤔

What do you guys think ? @kmar92, @iBooz2, @MartyG1525230263

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46 minutes ago, Red devil 44 said:

I think I will definitely buy the 58L kegmenter, good tip @iBooz2 about the seal, I like spares so I’ll invest in a few.

‘Not sure whether I will ferment then serve from it, or transfer to other kegs once fermentation is finished.

Reason being I’m worried about the yeast & trub settling on the bottom of the keg which may lead to blocking of the dip tube whilst serving 🤔🤔

What do you guys think ? @kmar92, @iBooz2, @MartyG1525230263

Floating dip tube solves that. 

 

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On 8/1/2021 at 7:37 AM, MartyG1525230263 said:

It is more making sure when you rinse the kegmenter. If you have taken the dip tube off to clean it make sure it is replaced on the correct post.   Good thing is you will never do it twice.  

Yes my unit has the floating dip tube.  Its also fitted with a small filter cage that stops crud from getting into the floating dip tube line.

I have never taken the dip tube off the inside of the lid on my Fermzilla and see no reason to do this with the 58 L Kegmenter.   Once the beer is removed it would be flushed out and then soaked in SP.  A small amount of CO2 gas pressure would be applied to push the SP up the floating dip tube line and into and out the post.  Same with the gas post only this is done with the FV upside down for obvious reasons.  The SP would remain inside all these components until next day or day after when the Kegmenter would be drained and then its all flushed out with hot water prior to sanitising.

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On 8/1/2021 at 9:32 AM, Red devil 44 said:

‘Not sure whether I will ferment then serve from it, or transfer to other kegs once fermentation is finished.

Reason being I’m worried about the yeast & trub settling on the bottom of the keg which may lead to blocking of the dip tube whilst serving 🤔🤔

Red, these don't come with a dip tube at all.  Only x 1 seal, 1 x 4" tri-clover clamp, 1 x flat 4" lid which has two posts (obviously 1 gas 1 beer) and a PRV but no dip tube at all.  You have to buy that separately.  I just bought the floating dip tube kit not a solid dip tube.

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13 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Red, these don't come with a dip tube at all.  Only x 1 seal, 1 x 4" tri-clover clamp, 1 x flat 4" lid which has two posts (obviously 1 gas 1 beer) and a PRV but no dip tube at all.  You have to buy that separately.  I just bought the floating dip tube kit not a solid dip tube.

Ok, cheers for the heads up @iBooz2

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On 8/5/2021 at 12:40 PM, Red devil 44 said:

Ok, cheers for the heads up @iBooz2

Here you go Red, some thinking out loud for when using my 58 L Kegmenter.  Some of my question to self may get you thinking on how you are going to manage yours when you get it.     Plus you may come up with other ideas to make the tasks easy and let me know too.

58 L Kegmenter

Challenges and questions for myself.

Q 1. How do I support the extra weight of the 60 kg in the brew fridge?    A = Build a new timber or aluminium support frame to spread the load across the plastic floor of the fridge.

Q 2. How do I rinse it out after soaking in SP?      A = Man handling to lift it and take it down the back yard, use hand trolley to move and with initial squirt out with the garden hose then a couple of flushes of hot water using a clean bucket or jug.  Repeat until satisfied all SP traces are flushed out.

Q 3. How do I sanitise it and then drain it?    A = Use a few litres of sanitiser and roll the keg around on a mat or carpet, tipping and tilting until sure all internal surfaces have made good contact with the solution.  After several minutes remove lid, man handle to up-end keg and allow draining into whatever is going to be big enough to hold the volume of sanitiser and the weight of the Kegmenter when it is inverted?  Sanitise lid and floating dip tube lines so you don’t have to pressurise the keg to do this.

Q 4. How do I fill it with wort?   A = Will have to fill from two cubes at this stage as I think if I pump hot wort into the Kegmenter there will be too big of an air gap (headspace) and a big risk of infection whilst it is cooling down even when sealed up.  Also the losses of wort in the long lines to the Kegmenter will be too much to waste.  Plus the Kegmenter would have to be pressurised enough to stop it crushing inwards when the wort cools.  Therefore filling with wort will have to be done with the Kegmenter in-situ using a funnel and a tap fitted to the cube lids for easy pour to prevent splashing everywhere.  Have to check if there will be enough usable space between top of Kegmenter and inside top of fridge.  EDIT: since done this and not enough space so will just have to hold cube in right position while it dumps wort into the FV.

Q 5. How do I aerate the wort when Kegmenter is in the fridge?           A = Put the yeast in first then try to do an aggressive pour from cubes.  If this does not work then might have to buy a SS aeration wand and air pump.

Q 6. How do I harvest yeast trub / yeast cake when fermentation is finished and beer transferred to the kegs?    A =  Perhaps a long handled scoop.  I know – a SS yabby pump from a fishing tackle store ha ha.🤣

Q 7. How do I clean it out post fermentation?            A = Man handling to lift it out of fridge and take it down to backyard, use hand trolley to move and garden hose or angled spray head attachment on my Karcher to get rid of Krausen crud.

Q 8.  How do I soak it in SP with enough volume to get the SP solution to cover all internal surfaces?               A = Perhaps using 10 Litres of hot water and SP just seal it up then roll it around on a mat or carpet and invert from time to time to ensure all inner surfaces make contact with the SP solution.

Return to Q 2. And start over.

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3 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Here you go Red, some thinking out loud for when using my 58 L Kegmenter.  Some of my question to self may get you thinking on how you are going to manage yours when you get it.     Plus you may come up with other ideas to make the tasks easy and let me know too.

58 L Kegmenter

Challenges and questions for myself.

Q 1. How do I support the extra weight of the 60 kg in the brew fridge?    A = Build a new timber or aluminium support frame to spread the load across the plastic floor of the fridge.

Q 2. How do I rinse it out after soaking in SP?      A = Man handling to lift it and take it down the back yard, use hand trolley to move and with initial squirt out with the garden hose then a couple of flushes of hot water using a clean bucket or jug.  Repeat until satisfied all SP traces are flushed out.

Q 3. How do I sanitise it and then drain it? A = Use a few litres of sanitiser and roll the keg around on a mat or carpet, tipping and tilting until sure all internal surfaces have made good contact with the solution.  After several minutes remove lid, man handle to up-end keg and allow draining into whatever is going to be big enough to hold the volume of sanitiser and the weight of the Kegmenter when it is inverted?  Sanitise lid and floating dip tube lines so you don’t have to pressurise the keg to do this.

Q 4. How do I fill it with wort?  A = Will have to fill from two cubes at this stage as I think if I pump hot wort into the Kegmenter there will be too big of an air gap (headspace) and a big risk of infection whilst it is cooling down even when sealed up.  Also the losses of wort in the long lines to the Kegmenter will be too much to waste.  Plus the Kegmenter would have to be pressurised enough to stop it crushing inwards when the wort cools.  Therefore filling with wort will have to be done with the Kegmenter in-situ using a funnel and a tap fitted to the cube lids for easy pour to prevent splashing everywhere.  Have to check if there will be enough usable space between top of Kegmenter and inside top of fridge.  EDIT: since done this and not enough space so will just have to hold cube in right position while it dumps wort into the FV.

Q 5. How do I aerate the wort when Kegmenter is in the fridge?           A = Put the yeast in first then try to do an aggressive pour from cubes.  If this does not work then might have to buy a SS aeration wand and air pump.

Q 6. How do I harvest yeast trub / yeast cake when fermentation is finished and beer transferred to the kegs? A =  Perhaps a long handled scoop.  I know – a SS yabby pump from a fishing tackle store ha ha.🤣

Q 7. How do I clean it out post fermentation?            A = Man handling to lift it out of fridge and take it down to backyard, use hand trolley to move and garden hose or angled spray head attachment on my Karcher to get rid of Krausen crud.

Q 8.  How do I soak it in SP with enough volume to get the SP solution to cover all internal surfaces?               A = Perhaps using 10 Litres of hot water and SP just seal it up then roll it around on a mat or carpet and invert from time to time to ensure all inner surfaces make contact with the SP solution.

Return to Q 2. And start over.

Yeah mate all good questions worth thinking about mate.

I will load the keg in my keezer via my electric crane I have 16mm coach bolted to the beams underneath my Queenslander.

I have a hand trolley plus a dolly on wheels for transporting kegs & fermenters around, as underneath is all concrete and reasonably flat.

‘My brewing table is next to my keezer so not far to go.

‘I’m going to install an I Beam and rollers so I can move the crane from from the keezer to the brewing table and back once the double brew is made.

Thats my plan of attack for now, although that may change down the track, but one things for sure I’m not lifting a 58L keg full thats full. 
 

Im a reasonably stocky guy but would not attempt that kind of lift. 

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