Coopers euro lager

[Spursman]

Some advice please. I'm about to bottle in a few days and was wondering if there is any advantage in allowing the fv which has been at 15° to go to ambient temp (around 21°) ?  Would that help the yeast to clean up more efficiently or adversely affect the taste?

[Aussiekraut]

11 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Some advice please. I'm about to bottle in a few days and was wondering if there is any advantage in allowing the fv which has been at 15° to go to ambient temp (around 21°) ?  Would that help the yeast to clean up more efficiently or adversely affect the taste?

I'd do the opposite and initiate a cold crash once fermentation is done. Drop the temp down to somewhere around 0-2C for a few days. The cold helps drop out suspended solids and clears the beer up a little. 

[RDT2]

1 hour ago, Spursman said:

Some advice please. I'm about to bottle in a few days and was wondering if there is any advantage in allowing the fv which has been at 15° to go to ambient temp (around 21°) ?  Would that help the yeast to clean up more efficiently or adversely affect the taste?

How long has it been in the fermenter?

[Spursman]

12 days.

[Journeyman]

Generally most of us let or cause the brew to rise a couple of °'s for a day or so after FG is reached and it's more important for lagers than ales. THEN cold crash it down to drop solids out of the brew.

[Graculus]

1 hour ago, Journeyman said:

Generally most of us let or cause the brew to rise a couple of °'s for a day or so after FG is reached and it's more important for lagers than ales. THEN cold crash it down to drop solids out of the brew.

Yes, I just made a lager and brewed it at 12C

Then raised it to 20C for a few days.

Then down to 5C for a few days.

[Spursman]

2 hours ago, Spursman said:

Thanks guys. Can't cold crash as my fridge takes about 3 days to get that low.

Just taste tested the wort and it is truly lagery and I think will turn out very nice. Might ferment next one at 12° to see if that is even better. Do you agree with the Coopers instructions to pitch at 20°?

 

[Tricky Micky]

44 minutes ago, Spursman said:

 

 

45 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Thanks guys. Can't cold crash as my fridge takes about 3 days to get that low.

Just taste tested the wort and it is truly lagery and I think will turn out very nice. Might ferment next one at 12° to see if that is even better. Do you agree with the Coopers instructions to pitch at 20°?

Hey S-man, I ferment my lagers @ 12 deg C. using Dubbya (W34/70) yeast. Pitch at 22 degrees. When the brew is a few points off FG I gradually raise the Temp to 18 degrees for about 2 or 3 days for the clean up and wait for FG to stabilize and then cold crash to 1.5 deg C. and leave it in the FV for about 4-5 days.

This seems to work for me - lagers have been really good so far.

[iBooz2]

1 hour ago, Spursman said:

 

 

42 minutes ago, Mickep said:

 

Hey S-man, I ferment my lagers @ 12 deg C. using Dubbya (W34/70) yeast. Pitch at 22 degrees. When the brew is a few points off FG I gradually raise the Temp to 18 degrees for about 2 or 3 days for the clean up and wait for FG to stabilize and then cold crash to 1.5 deg C. and leave it in the FV for about 4-5 days.

This seems to work for me - lagers have been really good so far.

@Spursman With lagers it is best to up the temp as it approaches your predicted FG number.  Take it up to the upper temp limit of the particular yeast you are using and let sit it there for 2 - 3 days as others have suggested.  Then start the cold crash routine. Your fridge taking 3 days to get down to say 2 C is perfect as the proper way to cold crash a lager is to step it down over several days.  Plus your fridge compressor will thank you for the rests on the way down.

So your temp routine would look something like this:

Ferment at 15 C for 7 -10 days up the temp to say 18 C for 3 days for the D-rest then after that step it down to 13 C for 1 day, then 9 C for 1 day, then 4 C for 1 day, then get to 1 - 2 C finally for 2 days and bottle after that.

I do not agree with pitching at 20 C.  Pitching at a high temp and then dropping the temperature lower is sending the wrong signal to the yeast IMO.

I used to pitch my yeast at the higher temps but when your read all the pro recipes and look at their ferment routines they all pitch at or below the lower ideal yeast temp then let it slowly rise up as it ferments to the higher ideal yeast temp.  This of course varies from yeast to yeast and will depend on what flavours you want the yeast to throw in your recipe.

 I now religiously pitch all mine low.

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by iBooz2

[Spursman]

Thanks ibooz2 for the detailed instructions.  I haven't gone away from the yeast supplied with the kit so far. Do you reckon it's worth using something else?

[iBooz2]

16 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Thanks ibooz2 for the detailed instructions.  I haven't gone away from the yeast supplied with the kit so far. Do you reckon it's worth using something else?

Just looked up my Euro Lager brew day notes.  I used the Coopers supplied kit yeast and a pack of W-34/70 (nicknamed Dubbya on this forum) and is ripper yeast for lagers.

All my lagers brewed last lager season (winter for me) used the Dubbya but this lager season I am trying the Diamond lager Yeast and the WPL850 Copenhagen Lager Yeast strains.

Have a crack at using the Dubbya, you may not want to use anything else once you have tried this one.

 

[Spursman]

Thanks for the suggestion I'll give a go.  Just to be clear, you recommend the kit yeast and the Dubbya together in the same wort?

Really appreciate your input.

[iBooz2]

16 minutes ago, Spursman said:

Thanks for the suggestion I'll give a go.  Just to be clear, you recommend the kit yeast and the Dubbya together in the same wort?

Really appreciate your input.

Yep that is what I did, the kit yeast AND the 1 x pack of Dubbya.  OR 2 x packs of Dubbya if you don't have an "in date" kit yeast. 

I could be wrong but I think the kit yeast with this Euro tin is actually Dubbya anyway, others may know if that is correct or not.

[Tricky Micky]

1 hour ago, iBooz2 said:

I do not agree with pitching at 20 C.  Pitching at a high temp and then dropping the temperature lower is sending the wrong signal to the yeast IMO.

That's interesting Boozer, are you suggesting pitching Dubbya at the lower end of the ideal temp as written on the packet?  

[jamiek86]

5 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Just looked up my Euro Lager brew day notes.  I used the Coopers supplied kit yeast and a pack of W-34/70 (nicknamed Dubbya on this forum) and is ripper yeast for lagers.

All my lagers brewed last lager season (winter for me) used the Dubbya but this lager season I am trying the Diamond lager Yeast and the WPL850 Copenhagen Lager Yeast strains.

Have a crack at using the Dubbya, you may not want to use anything else once you have tried this one.

 

what brand makes the Copenhagen and diamond one please?

[jamiek86]

@iBooz2 whyeast liquid just found it most places are limited stock or have none did you use one pack and build a starter for yours?

[iBooz2]

15 minutes ago, jamiek86 said:

@iBooz2 whyeast liquid just found it most places are limited stock or have none did you use one pack and build a starter for yours?

I got my Copenhagen Lager Yeast and Diamond from KL here in Melbourne.  Yep sorry but I think I bought the last 5 packs of the former (CLY) so may have been lucky getting that strain.  Only trouble is they have a use by date of 22 July 2021 so I will have to get cracking and make some more beers and then some carry over starters for later on.

Pack says only 1 smack pack required for a standard gravity batch around my volume of 21 litres so I just used the one this time. 

KL still have some Diamond Lager Yeast available I would take advantage of the bulk buy pricing as the use by date on the ones I got were May 2022.

Edited June 20, 2021 by iBooz2

[Spursman]

Guys, 

Do you recommend dry pitching the yeast (w34/70 plus kit yeast) or rehydrating? If rehydrating is it best to pitch at fermenting temperature or warmer? Doing the brew tomorrow morning. 

[iBooz2]

1 hour ago, Spursman said:

Guys, 

Do you recommend dry pitching the yeast (w34/70 plus kit yeast) or rehydrating? If rehydrating is it best to pitch at fermenting temperature or warmer? Doing the brew tomorrow morning. 

Just dry pitch both yeasts at 15 C temp wort (or lower).  Give the wort a really good aerate first with a sanitised SS whisk or something similar then sprinkle both packs onto this foam.  Leave FV with lid on for 15" then whisk the by now almost re-hydrated yeast into the wort.  No need to re-hydrate separately.

Set your temperature controller to 15 C for the next few days.

Edited June 21, 2021 by iBooz2

[Spursman]

Thanks ibooz2. Will follow your advice.

I always aerate with a paint mixer and power drill - seems to create a nice vortex and creamy head.

Thanks again for the advice - seems lagers are a bit more complicated than ales.

 

[iBooz2]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:28 PM, Mickep said:

That's interesting Boozer, are you suggesting pitching Dubbya at the lower end of the ideal temp as written on the packet?  

Yep.  I have been doing a fair bit of study on yeasts and have some charts somewhere on another PC, will dig them out and post up to explain why.  The How to brew beer by John Palmer explains it pretty well too.  Plus all the old recipes I have dug out do it that way.

[kmar92]

@iBooz2 the exception can be when you pressure ferment. I have just put together a lager with W34/70 and I pitched at 20.6°. It is in my SS kegmenter in the ferment fridge, I will let it go to somewhere around 24° as it builds pressure and then keep it at 15psi/24°. I have found in the past that W34/70 will ferment a very clear and clean lager with that pressure and temp and be done in just a few days.