Question about a full boil brew

[stquinto]

G’day fellow brewers

I am keen to try a Pale Ale style beer and the extract version of the recipe calls for a 23l 90 minute boil with 2.7kg of DME (or 3.1kg of syrup). There’s 30g each of East Kent Goldings and Styrian Goldings at the start of the boil then 20g Styrian and 3gm Irish Moss at the last 10 minutes. 
I have a 19l capacity pot but could do a 10l boil easily in it (maybe 15l if it doesn’t froth up too much). I can get a rolling boil of the induction ring with 16l of water, I tried it earlier.

My question is this: should I go for a half-volume brew and do the 90 minute boil, or try a half-volume 90 min boil, then just dissolve the other half of the malt into the BV and top  up with cold water to 23l ? (or something in the middle like a 15l  boil) ?

If I found a pot big enough to boil 23l I’d probably need a gas burner, and a special pot with a tap on it, so as not to burn myself; this smaller pot I have is manageable.

Thanks in advance and happy brewing! 

[jamiek86]

are you able to get 2 pots boiling with half recepies each? Also with extract I don't think you need Irish moss 

[ozdevil]

you could look at getting a 35l digiboil    where you would be able to do the boil   ya talking about but its a big overkill for extract brewing .  However  a digiboil will not be a waste as a digiboil will be a great way to walk into All grain  brewing  using BIAB 

it will sove your issues  of  the foaming (even though it still happens... )  a good way   of bringing the foam under control is a spray bottle of cool water  and spray until the foam drops







 

[Hairy]

There's not much value in doing a 90 minute boil of extract. There is also is nominal difference in IBUs between a 60 and 90 minute boil.

Go for a 10 litre boil in your 19 litre pot for 60 minutes.

[Shamus O'Sean]

9 hours ago, stquinto said:

My question is this: should I go for a half-volume brew and do the 90 minute boil, or try a half-volume 90 min boil, then just dissolve the other half of the malt into the BV and top  up with cold water to 23l ? (or something in the middle like a 15l  boil) ?

Using the equipment you have you could do either.  But I would choose the half-volume 60 min boil, then add the extra malt later and top up the FV.  The biggest issue is cooling the wort, but even that may not be such a big deal.  Note: I agree with @Hairy, no need to boil for 90 minutes.

Start with a 15L boil.  15L should not boil over if you watch it.  Once you have stirred in any protein foam, it should boil away happily without issue.  You might need to adjust the heat.

You will need enough malt in the boil for an SG around 1.036.  This is for good bitterness extraction from the hops.   Hops can be added commando or in a hop sock or in a hop spider.

For cooling you could use a wort chiller if you have one.  Otherwise either use a sanitised water cube or put a lid on the pot and either let it cool overnight or pop it in your brew fridge to cool.  As long as you are able to pitch the next day, infection is low risk.  I am not sure that you could add your top up water in the form of ice or ice water and get the brew down to pitching temperature.  But you could Google that.

Maybe also look at Cascarillo Amber Ale, Chubby Cherub or Nelson's Light for some recipes and instructions for extract brews.  These only use a 5 litre boil.  It's easier to cool.  I have done the Chubby and it was a nice beer.  I have a keg of Cascarillo waiting for a spot in the kegerator.  A test of a nice beer is if you drink the whole contents of the SG test tube - I did with the Cascarillo, so I cannot wait to try it carbonated and cold.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Shamus O'Sean

[Journeyman]

I know EKG (& presume Styrian) are low alpha hops but a 90 minute boil of them? I would imagine that would produce a beer I wouldn't want to drink. Happy to be corrected but that seems overkill on a boil for any hops.

English Pale (which I presume this is meant to be) is a high IBU of 29.6% and the SS gives those 2 hops @ 90 mins as 66%.

Am I missing something here? 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Journeyman

[stquinto]

@jamiek86 - I could get a second pot like this but on my stove top there is only one large ring. I'm not sure I could boil two simultaneously, but I could try it I suppose.

@ozdevil - other than the pot (which didn't cost much) if I buy more kit I reckon I'll wait and see about getting a Grainfather or equivalent

@Hairy @Shamus O'Sean @Journeyman - looks like the consensus is that 60 minutes is enough, any more wouldn't bring anything to the party and might over-bitter the wort. 

I bought a couple to 10l food-grade jerrycans so I'll fill them with water and keep them in the fridge to help cool down. If I have to leave it overnight in the closed FV until pitching the yeast it shouldn't be too much of an infection risk.

The method @Shamus O'Sean mentioned of a half-boil is pretty much the Parker Method: I found it in the book after having posted.

Will let you know how it "pans out"....

[Hairy]

You won’t over-bitter with a 90 min boil. Increasing a boil from 60 to 90 mins will only slightly increase IBUs.

A 90 boil is often useful in all grain brewing as it improves clarity and helps boil off DMS precursors when using Pilsner malt. It won’t make much difference to a full extract beer.

[stquinto]

Did the boil yesterday, let it cool overnight, in the FV with the rest of the malt extract powder, and yeast pitched today. 
I went for a 15 litre boil with the corresponding fraction of the fermentables, for 60 minutes. The next day I dissolved the rest of the malt extract, ran the wort through a sieve, and topped it up to 23 l. 
In with a pack of hydrated Notty and leave it at around 23 degrees. Fingers crossed on my first proper boil
This is the recipe:

 

[stquinto]

It's bubbling away nicely - I like the look the the Notto as a yeast.

As this boil went quite well I reckon I'll make more full boil extract brews, and maybe try out BIAB if I get a beer kettle.

In the book above it has quite a few malt extract versions, using malt extract instead of the pale malt grains. It says to add other grains (like crystal malt or chocolate malt) into the boil.

My question is should they be milled, or just bashed a bit like when you make an overnight steep ? If they need to be milled, will a few pulses in the food blender do it ?

Thanks for all of your advice, I have a feeling that I might be upping the ante quite a bit with a full boil.

I am really happy with the recipes on the forum I must say, just want a couple of other optionsd  

[Shamus O'Sean]

3 hours ago, stquinto said:

My question is should they be milled, or just bashed a bit like when you make an overnight steep ? If they need to be milled, will a few pulses in the food blender do it ?

If you have found good results with bashing for an overnight steep, bashing will be fine for hot steeping before a boil.  Grain in the blender might get a bit fine.  However, as long as you make sure it is mixed well and contained in a fine enough bag it should still steep okay.

[stquinto]

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean, you're a legend !

I'll give the grain a bash in a freezer bag, then put it in a hop sock. It shouldn't be boiled for the 60 minutes then ? Just steep it a while in the hot water before a boil ?

Cheers !

[Shamus O'Sean]

8 hours ago, stquinto said:

Thanks @Shamus O'Sean, you're a legend !

I'll give the grain a bash in a freezer bag, then put it in a hop sock. It shouldn't be boiled for the 60 minutes then ? Just steep it a while in the hot water before a boil ?

Cheers !

Hi, Steeps of Crystal Malt, Chocolate Malt, Roasted Barley, etc do not need to be boiled for an hour.  They should be boiled, but 5-10 minutes is enough to kill any bugs.  Just think about when you were doing kit and kilo brews:  You were probably doing grain additions as well.  None of those were boiled excessively.

If you are doing a 60 minute extract boil, just add the steeped liquid to the boil with 10 minutes to go.  You could boil the steeped liquid separately and add it to the fermenter, like a kit and kilo brew, if you had volume limitations with your main boil pot.

[stquinto]

And here it is:

Only two weeks old (I had thought three, I jumped the gun a bit and as such would prefer to wait a couple longer). Great potential, still got the homebrew aftertaste mind. I was a bit concerned about iffy off tastes as I left the 15 liter boil to cool down naturally overnight. But all good.
 
Will deffo do this one again ! Need to sort out a wort cooler though, don’t want to chance my arm. 

Great advice from you blokes!