Sourdough

[Classic Brewing Co]

8 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

( the disgruntled Yungaburra Yetti).

I think he must have been hit by Lightning, he looks none to happy & that would explain the flushed appearance on his former viridescent appearance.

[ben 10]

3 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Question for the sourdough guru’s

Nah, mix it in. Dump half of it all and refill. And keep going, it will get there.

Nice choice of flour too BTW

[iBooz2]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:17 PM, disgruntled said:

Nah, mix it in. Dump half of it all and refill. And keep going, it will get there.

Nice choice of flour too BTW

Thanks for the tips. 

My starter is certainly heading in the right direction, volume is increasing slightly and you can now smell the sourdough aroma.  I am alternating each day with 60 g of one flour (Laucke stoneground) then the next day 60 g of the other (Organic white plain), each day saving about 1/3 of the mix and tipping the rest before adding the new flour water mix.  Got it sitting at 21 C in my starter heat cabinet so its at a constant temp for the whole time.  So far so good.

[stquinto]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:59 AM, iBooz2 said:

Thought I would have a go at a sourdough starter the other day as I have been drooling over all those nice pics posted of pizza’s and bread and been meaning to try this for a while . 

I am doing It a bit different from recipe posts on here.  Used 30 g unbleached Macro organic Australian plain flour and 30 g Laucke stoneground rustic white flour and 60 ml of RO water on day one.

It’s only on day 3 so not much action yet.  These are the two flours I make my pizza bases out of so interested to try a sourdough base.

Question for the sourdough guru’s ( the disgruntled Yungaburra Yetti).  Do you tip off the hooch liquid before each feed or do you re-mix that back in before feeding?  I understand that mixing it back in makes for a more sour taste.

@iBooz2 mate my own starter toook 10 to 12 days to get going. I would keep 50g starter each morning, add 100g water, stir it, then add 100g flour, and give it a good mix. In the evening I would add two tablespoons of flour and two of water, and stir it. Carry on feeding it twice a day until it gets active (put an elastic band around the jar to check the height). And these Weck jars are pretty good too, if you can find them in Oz.

If it's not been fed for a while you get the hooch, sometimes quite a dark colour. Some people stir it in, others (like me) pour it off.

I think there are two things that influence the sour taste : the age of the starter (mine is now 18 months old) and if you leave the loaf to slow-proof in the fridge. That seems to have a positive effect on the taste. I'm not sure about the hooch though. You could always try mixing it in.

If you are going to make pizza bases it is deffo worth having a go at the sourdough ones. They are so much better. I only have an Ooni pizza oven, and of late it hasn't been getting that hot though (I made the mistake of washing the stone shortly before cooking, and I think it was impregnated with water and therefore not heating properly; on the second occasion I reckon my pellets got a bit damp from being outside and the morning dew and all that).

Try this recipe out (whenever your starter gets going):

https://ooni.com/blogs/recipes/sourdough-pizza-dough

 

 

[iBooz2]

20 hours ago, stquinto said:

my own starter took 10 to 12 days to get going. Carry on feeding it twice a day until it gets active (put an elastic band around the jar to check the height). And these Weck jars are pretty good too, if you can find them in Oz.

If it's not been fed for a while you get the hooch, sometimes quite a dark colour. Some people stir it in, others (like me) pour it off.

Thanks for that extra info @stquinto and also that great link to pizza recipes.

I maybe a little impatient, maybe tipping too much out each day, maybe not feeding it enough (I see you fed yours twice daily, I am only doing it once per evening) as it does not seem to be progressing in last couple of days.  I have upped the temp to 22 C and see what that does.  My hooch liquid is quite clear but slight tint of yellow and it smells sour.  So far I have been stirring it back in.  Might give it a couple more days at single feeds and if it does not fire up much better then will give it the couple of spoon fulls trick at about 12 hours after the big feed and see what that does.  Looking forward to a sourdough pizza next week,

[stquinto]

36 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Thanks for that extra info @stquinto and also that great link to pizza recipes.

I maybe a little impatient, maybe tipping too much out each day, maybe not feeding it enough (I see you fed yours twice daily, I am only doing it once per evening) as it does not seem to be progressing in last couple of days.  I have upped the temp to 22 C and see what that does.  My hooch liquid is quite clear but slight tint of yellow and it smells sour.  So far I have been stirring it back in.  Might give it a couple more days at single feeds and if it does not fire up much better then will give it the couple of spoon fulls trick at about 12 hours after the big feed and see what that does.  Looking forward to a sourdough pizza next week,

Check this out mate, this is what I used :

 

and this

easy on the eye both of them, not too much of a chore to watch

 

 

[ben 10]

Persevere PPL, it will get there.

Mine is 10 years old (at least) and just goes and goes. Weeks of no feeding - no issue at all.

Once it is sorted just leave it in the fridge, use, refresh then fridge.

[stquinto]

2 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

Might give it a couple more days at single feeds and if it does not fire up much better then will give it the couple of spoon fulls trick at about 12 hours after the big feed and see what that does.

My own one took a good 12 days if I remember right. All the stuff on the web said 7 days. Make sure the flour hasn't been bleached too, but otherwise I used plain white flour. Some say to use some whole meal to get it going. But as @disgruntled said, 

 

19 minutes ago, disgruntled said:

Persevere PPL, it will get there.

 

[iBooz2]

@stquinto yep I like easy on the eye and agree after watching those. 

Ok I think the problem with mine may be temperature as I have had it on a steady 21 C for last few days, which maybe a tad too low.  I've got to stop thinking of beer yeast temps and remember my home made ginger beer with wild yeast and the temps they like so have bumped my sourdough mothering chamber up to 24 C.  Will keep on feeding it 60 g of flour and 60 g of water for the next few days to see if the temp change is what makes it go wild for me.  Cheers and thanks again guys.

Edited September 7, 2021 by iBooz2

[Tricky Micky]

9 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

@stquinto yep I like easy on the eye and agree after watching those. 

Ok I think the problem with mine may be temperature as I have had it on a steady 21 C for last few days, which maybe a tad too low.  I've got to stop thinking of beer yeast temps and remember my home made ginger beer with wild yeast and the temps they like so have bumped my sourdough mothering chamber up to 24 C.  Will keep on feeding it 60 g of flour and 60 g of water for the next few days to see if the temp change is what makes it go wild for me.  Cheers and thanks again guys.

Yes Boozer, your beer temps are always on the low side - time to let go.

[ben 10]

19 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

to see if the temp change is what makes it go wild for me.

Start using it soon, if there has been any movement it will make bread, just take an extended ferment. Mine can rise in 8 hours now, quite easily, it's soooo happy.

Some malted grain goes well in the bread too for a kicker - or if you mill your own grain use some of the powdery flour stuff, that goes well too

 

I have been using weet-bix that the son stopped eating, 2 per batch of pizza dough, goes well actually.

[stquinto]

One other tip, if you use a proofing basket: make sure  it has enough rice flour in to stop the loaf sticking whilst it proofs

[iBooz2]

Update on my sourdough try.  Day 12 and I think I have worked out that I am not feeding this shark enough.  Only 70 g flour once per evening and 70 g of warm water.   Plenty of bubbles and it smells right but its not rising as they show in the vids, as not much of a foam mark up the sides of the jar if it has done this during the night.   So now have decided to feed it in the morning and again at night as there is always about 10 mm of almost clear hooch on top.  They say this means it is hungry and I am also worried the liquid will stop the starter from breathing properly.  Anyway next couple of days should tell me if I am right or not.  Thanks for your help guys.

[stquinto]

@iBooz2 my starters took 12 days to get going as I mentioned, the ratios I use are 50g starter, 100g warmish water and 100g flour. That’s the morning: in the evening I added two tablespoons of flour and two of water. Demoralising until the b*stard gets going, I ended up ordering some powdered starter from the US but in the meantime mine got going. I now have three on the go

[ben 10]

18 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

I am also worried

don't be.

don't measure stuff

Dump half, top up.

Have a beer.

[stquinto]

1 hour ago, disgruntled said:

don't be.

don't measure stuff

Dump half, top up.

Have a beer.

That works too

 

[iBooz2]

Big thanks to @stquinto on the tips re feeding the sourdough starter both in the morning and again in the evening and also to @disgruntled re patience.

Pleased to say that after 14 days - "Number Five is ALIVE" ! 

So now I have split it into two separate starters in new clean jars rather than flick half of it and just keep some of it as just no time ATM to make a loaf of bread.

Therefore I now have two x 2.5's ALIVE.  Cheers guys.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by iBooz2

[stquinto]

55 minutes ago, iBooz2 said:

Big thanks to @stquinto on the tips re feeding the sourdough starter both in the morning and again in the evening and also to @disgruntled re patience.

Pleased to say that after 14 days - "Number Five is ALIVE" ! 

So now I have split it into two separate starters in new clean jars rather than flick half of it and just keep some of it as just no time ATM to make a loaf of bread.

Therefore I now have two x 2.5's ALIVE.  Cheers guys.

 

Glad to hear it @iBooz2 mate... welcome down the rabbit hole of sourdough 

Seriously, it's worth it: for the price, the fact that your bread is only flour, water, and salt; also you can make a fine pizza base (and other stuff)....

Happy baking

 

[kmar92]

I have had a set back with my sourdough starter experiment. Started off well with a blend of organic rye flour and organic white flour in a jar, I mixed it and let it stand in a cupboard for 2 days. Looked good with bubbles in it and a distinctive sour aroma. Discarded 1/2 and fed it again after the initial 48 hours and then today I went feed it again after discarding 1/2 and adding more flour and water as I was mixing it the damn glass jar just disintegrated! Revenge of Xi Jinping with the glass jar I suspect. I am now looking for a more robust jar.

[iBooz2]

 

I tried to make a couple of sourdough pizza’s out of one of my two starters.  Mixed up my usual pack of stone ground white, some olive oil, some salt and water and about 4 tablespoons of my starter.  Did this in my bread machine on the dough setting which is what I have always done but put it through the 1 hour 30 minute dough cycle twice in order for it to look good.

Turned out the dough into a big oiled bowl then covered it with cling wrap and put it into the oven (not turned on) out of harm’s way with a hot water bottle to keep the temp about right.  Let it prove for 24 hours and more than doubled in size.  I did not get time to make the pizza so left it for another 12 hours. 

Made two large pizzas bases and covered in cling wrap to prove once more but one thing I noticed was the dough was very sticky and looked too wet and no elasticity.  Anyway threw on the toppings and cooked them just like I have always done in the Webber Q on a pizza stone.

Big fail.  The bases did not cook properly at all, still very doughy, did not rise and toppings were overcooked in the attempt to get bases to cook through so ended up tossing over ½ out.  Normally the bases made with baker’s yeast cook up like toast and are fantastic.

So I have started a brand new fresh starter using organic Rye flour and white stone ground flour and feeding it twice a day.  The thing I noticed about this new starter is how quickly it has progressed to being ready, only 1 week at 24 C and its almost doubling in size.  So lesson learned – use rye flour for faster results.  Be interesting to see how this one goes, going to do a sourdough loaf for garlic bread on Sunday as a test.

Edited October 2, 2021 by iBooz2

[stquinto]

18 hours ago, iBooz2 said:

tried to make a couple of sourdough pizza’s out of one of my two starters.  Mixed up my usual pack of stone ground white, some olive oil, some salt and water and about 4 tablespoons of my starter.  Did this in my bread machine on the dough setting which is what I have always done but put it through the 1 hour 30 minute dough cycle twice in order for it to look good.

Sorry to hear that mate. I’ve made the dough three or four times from the recipe I posted. It worked fine for me - but no machine, just by hand. And I absolutely weight everything out to the gram with digital scales. Worth persevering- the sourdough base is much better

[stquinto]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:44 AM, kmar92 said:

I have had a set back with my sourdough starter experiment. Started off well with a blend of organic rye flour and organic white flour in a jar, I mixed it and let it stand in a cupboard for 2 days. Looked good with bubbles in it and a distinctive sour aroma. Discarded 1/2 and fed it again after the initial 48 hours and then today I went feed it again after discarding 1/2 and adding more flour and water as I was mixing it the damn glass jar just disintegrated! Revenge of Xi Jinping with the glass jar I suspect. I am now looking for a more robust jar.

These are good - dunno if you can get them down under as they are a German brand - Weck

[kmar92]

Sourdough starter #2 is going well, thanks to you guys for the tips. After the jar failure I have started again and I have used a combo of rye and white organic flour. As with the 1st it went gangbusters to begin with, then it calmed down. So I have been using the same mix of rye and white and that has made a difference, I also think that I will start feeding it twice daily from now on. I noticed yesterday that it had a good rise after feeding the night before, but that then subsided. After the subsidence it also had a vinegary smell and I have read that indicates that it is hungry. So after a feed tonight it has risen maybe 50% in 3 hours, I will feed it again in the morning.

Edited October 5, 2021 by kmar92

[kmar92]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:22 AM, stquinto said:

These are good - dunno if you can get them down under as they are a German brand - Weck

Sorry @stquinto, I forgot to mention that the Weck jars are available here. Maybe next starter I will get 1 or 2 and try them.

[stquinto]

41 minutes ago, kmar92 said:

Sorry @stquinto, I forgot to mention that the Weck jars are available here. Maybe next starter I will get 1 or 2 and try them.

Yeah mate, handy to have a couple of them. My ones can hold 750ml, and the sides don't curve in (like on a jar) so they're dead easy to clean the start off the sides with a silicone spatula.